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Posts from Amendment to section 5.2.1 of the Hv rules (regarding quick-cast spells).

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Should point 5.2.1 be removed from the rules?
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In reply to StickyFingaz
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Offline StickyFingaz
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#19
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There are many options: for example, Kirr or Ivor with a mass haste spell.
In what percentage of games did you have mass haste at 124? Approximately the same number of games where Deemer will come with a rain spell for 400 and mana 5 times.
Just for example, when playing as Necropolis, I send a couple of horsemen with a squad of 7 upgraded witches and Deemer, or even Solmyr, without mana.
Yeah, but I don't play against Necropolis at all. And the chance of a Solmyr/Deemer vs. Necropolis game is very small.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#20
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bRitvo4kA
statistics, where are the mages as starting and final heroes?
No one said that a mage-kamikaze should be a starting hero, right? For example, I found Solmyr, level 15, in the dungeon, gave him a knowledge helm, and sent him to his death! That's all the use for him!

As for mages, Grindan, Luna, and Ciel are the best. If you could choose heroes from the start in Conflux, almost everyone would start with Grindan. You can really get a lot of gold already on day 111.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#22
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bRitvo4kA
The ratio of mages/strength builds should be 50/50, not 5/95 as it is now
It will never be 50/50. Mages cannot dominate because of the constant need to restore mana. And you can't take on Dragon Utopia with a mage without resurrection and summoning elementals.

The balance between mages and warriors is an eternal dilemma. This can only be fought in TE by increasing the drop rates of useful secondary skills for mages, etc.....
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Offline Wlk777
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#23
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StickyFingaz

Yeah, but I don't play against Necropolis at all. And the chance of a Solmyr/Deemer versus Necromancer is very small.
What prevents you from removing the basement and tower? (by the way, they often do that) The probability of Solmyr/Deemer appearing as a random hero is not that high and is approximately equal to the probability of a secondary Necromancer appearing. So, overall, everything balances out, although, of course, if you have the opportunity to take Solmyr/Deemer just to easily defeat the opponent in the second week :smile18:
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Offline КостяN
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#24
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Voted "for". Otherwise, I only use Solmyr now to thin out annoying neutral creatures before attacking with a stack.

I support loi's idea to test this rule variant in a mini-tournament. Or at least assign the testing to a group of enthusiasts, and let them report the results later (for example, one takes Jedite, the other takes Solmyr, etc.). I am ready to participate in such an experiment.
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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Offline Wlk777
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#25
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Dirty_Player
And as for mages, Grindan, Luna and Ciele rule. If you could choose heroes from the start in the conflict, almost everyone would start with Grindan. You can actually get mass slow as early as 111.
Indeed, in the conflict, even without Grindan, there are heroes to play as Razor said. And in general, the conflict is a hellish lottery where you can either get very lucky or not, although out of 3 times there's a high chance you'll get lucky in something. That's why many people cross out the conflict, and the restriction on hero selection is also unclear to me, why increase the already large disparity in starting setup?

Added after 4 minutes
KostyaN
(for example, one takes Jedite, the second - Solmyr, etc.). I'm ready to participate in such an experiment myself ;) .
If only someone would let me play as the Dungeon, there are plenty of good heroes there even without Jedite. And Jedite is again a lottery — whether they will give him Earth magic for permanent resurrection or not... If they do, he becomes a hell of a character, you can really take Dragon Utopias with him as early as the 2nd week...
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Offline Oelm
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#26
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What kind of nonsense are you guys writing:smile51:

In my games, even though I'm a relative newcomer, the Guardian Angel beats almost without losses on week 3 in 90% of cases, and on week 2 in 20% of cases.

In general, there's some wild off-topic discussion going on.

The problem with mages without restrictions isn't that they'll be chosen as starting heroes, but that if you get a mage as one of your heroes, it's 99% a rush on week 2 - hit-and-run with the mage, and then finishing off with the main hero. And that's what makes it overpowered.
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Offline Wlk777
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#27
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Oelm
What nonsense you gentlemen are writing:smile51:
In my games, although I am a relative beginner myself, ГО fights practically without losses on the 3rd in 90% of cases, and on the 2nd in 20% of cases.
And don't you take the Dragon Utopia on the first? ;) I haven't played with you personally, but it is extremely rare for ГО to be broken through before the fourth week, unless of course ГО is a group of non-upgraded hydras and Castle isn't hellishly focused on shooters. No matter how "hellish" a pro someone is, for example, you won't easily kill about 15 black dragons; and there are archangels, and nearly 100 cyclops... In any case, attacking ГО is a big risk—the slightest mistake and an opponent will be waiting for your weakened hero.
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Offline КостяN
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#28
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Yeah, I agree with Wlk777's previous post. I'll add that, in addition to being "incredibly strong in ranged attacks," the castle should also have a significant mass slow ability – otherwise, it's nonsense, and I won't believe it until I see it myself (with screenshots or something else). I'm talking about 3-4 examples of clearing the map without losses on day 2, using a standard template and a reasonably good setup. In my opinion, these are unique cases.
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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Offline bRitvo4kA
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#29
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Oelm
What nonsense you all write, gentlemen:smile51:
In my games, even though I myself am a relative novice, ГО is taken almost without losses on week 3 in 90% of cases, on week 2 in 20% of cases.
I reviewed all 20 of your reports on HeroesWorld. In them, you take ГО on week 4 just 1 time in a game against SEM-56, and 1 time on week 5 in a game against me. If we convert this to percentages, it comes out to week 2 — 0% (you claim 20%), week 3 — 0% (you claim 90%), week 4 — 5%, and week 5 — 5%. So your words are nothing but blatant lies and showing off for newcomers. So please, buddy, stop spamming my thread!!!!
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Offline LeBron
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#30
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Wlk777
Don't you take the Dragon Utopia on the first week? ;) I haven't played with you personally, but it's extremely rare for ГО to be broken through before the fourth week, unless of course ГО is a group of non-upgraded hydras and the Castle isn same as an extreme shooting build.
Today on the second week in a game with Mizrail, I broke through ГО with 70 swamp units without Mass Luck and zero losses—if you don't believe me, I can send the saves. Dragon Utopia on the first is very much possible ;)

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D
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Offline bRitvo4kA
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#31
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Who says it's impossible to break the Grand Order on the 2nd day? The point is that your case is unique and requires a very favorable situation, which rarely occurs. And even if there is a possibility to break the Grand Order on the 2nd day or even the Utopia on the 1st day, it may not be rational. I once found $20 on the street, but that doesn't mean I can repeat it often.
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Offline LeBron
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#32
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bRitvo4kA
Who says it's impossible to break the Guardian Order on the 2nd day? The point is that your case is unique and requires a very good setup, which happens rarely. And even if there is such an opportunity to break the Guardian Order frequently, it is not rational.
Come on, don't say it's a unique case :) With Mass Slow, 30 archers, and any walking guard, it's easy to do... In this game, I had 2 relics and 3 cons, with two being minimal and one being a 2-standard setup for Sylvan. There are cases when the Guardian Order cannot be broken on the second day – extremely rarely, it cannot be broken on the third day (magic dragons, phoenixes, less often archmages). But regarding the rationality of breaking it, I agree – it doesn't always make sense, but I agree that settling in an opponent's castle on day 127 when there is often a level 7 castle guard is very tempting. However, we have already deviated significantly from the topic.

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D
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Offline bRitvo4kA
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#33
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LeBron
I had 2 clues and 3 cons in this game, with two being minimums and one being a 2.
I was just lucky that the minimums came up; if it had been a 3 or 4, it would have been difficult to win. And in general, we're talking about excluding point 5.2 from the rules:smile42:
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Offline LeBron
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#34
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bRitvo4kA
Actually, we're talking about excluding point 5.2 from the rules:smile42:
That's what I was saying too :)
P.S. (for the last time, I swear) a tier 3 or maxed-out creature with 3 Hydras, 16 Vivs, and 50 Archers can be easily defeated with a minor loss of a Malachite Devourer and 3-4 Vivs in the worst-case scenario.

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D
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