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I decided to create this thread. I think many would like to suggest some changes to certain maps.
Players playing Ironman mode might remember the problem with the "infamous second bridge," as, if I remember correctly, Chameleon called it. Or, perhaps, we could add an eye near it and an object for viewing near one of the castles? For Barbarian, we could even place a second eye near a level 4 dwelling and hide a level 3 spellbook somewhere.
On Spleen, we could also strengthen the Barbarian by placing a conservatory connected to the opponent or a random conservatory near the starting castle. Although the Barbarian already performs wonders on Spleen, it would be even more fun to play as him then.
On Quiet World and Heart of Winter, we could disable the Apprentice spellbook and the Summon Ship spell.
There are probably many more such ideas. We can discuss them, and maybe we can upgrade something.
2. Fourth-level skills are a gamble. Well, that's true for any map.
I think we can close this topic.
oxygen_hl
3. Instead of boats, it would be nice to have a shipyard. So that a good game doesn't end due to a shortage of ships.
I agree.
oxygen_hl
4. Having only one passage between players is a bit monotonous. It's like Iron.
But on Iron, at least the passage opens. And the guards on the Quiet World are unreasonably strong for a map of this type.
Regarding total control with a town portal on the current version, it's not entirely clear. Teleporting from an island, yes, that's an advantage. Or from a bolt. Otherwise, it has the same advantages as on other medium-sized maps. And when playing with a "cache" (presumably referring to a specific strategy or item), there's almost no difference whether you have it or not. There's something to discuss.
Regarding Silent World. I presume we are closing it.
It is possible to keep Sorcery.
But on Iron, the passage does open at least. And the guard on Silent World is unjustifiably strong for a map of this type.
We need to think about what to do. Either an additional passage, or perhaps tents for the opposing players.
Regarding total control via Town Portal on the current version is not entirely clear. Teleporting from the island, yes that is an advantage. Or from the crossing. Otherwise, the same advantages as on other medium maps. And when playing through a power-stack, there is almost no difference whether you have it or not. There is something to discuss.
How do I put it. It is terribly inconvenient to get out from the secondary town. Place a two-way (though a one-way would solve many problems) portal with a guard there leading to the capital or the third castle — that is it. Town Gate would suddenly stop dominating.
And to prevent it from dominating from the sea — place a Seaman's Hut for each player in the underground near the abyss under guard. Otherwise, honestly, spending 4 days sailing... They skip them anyway.
Since we're already doing this, I'd like to offer my services for further editing. I'll create a separate thread where I'll post the final versions. This is just a suggestion.
We can leave "Sorcery."
By the way, in addition to some skills, I think we should remove a lot of artifacts. All sorts of boots, etc.
P.S. Work on "Silent World" is already underway :smile43:
I searched on Yandex, and it also drew a blue curly head for me oxygen_hl
We need to think about how to proceed. Either an additional passage, or perhaps tents for the opposing players.
You could place the opponent's tents somewhere in the swamp at the very end. Then whoever is the strongest goes across the bridge. And whoever likes to run and swim heads back to the boat. oxygen_hl
How should I put it. It's terribly inconvenient to get out of the secondary area.
A teleport from the small neutrals seems simpler, I think. Then nothing needs to be changed. The second castle is still taken in no time. And there's no need to go there a second time with an army. Right? oxygen_hl
And to prevent ruling from the sea — a Seaman's Hut for each player in the underground near the swamp, under guard.
Can't argue with that. Lars
Since the party's already started, I offer my services for subsequent editing.
You can place tents belonging to your opponent somewhere in the swamp, at the very end. Then, whoever is the strongest can cross the bridge. And those who like to run and swim can go back to their boat.
I really like that.
I think teleporting from small neutral creatures is easier. Then you don't have to change anything. The second castle is taken in no time anyway. And you don't need to go there with an army a second time, right?
And you can also carry a tomb. The logistics become so tedious that it's unpleasant to play.
I think it's long overdue to take an example from Leskandra and her scripted building that allows free acquisition of the 4th skill on all maps.
The idea is excellent. And I also suggest that, so as not to disadvantage the Barbarian castle, place a university, library, and conservatory on all maps for them, which will be removed when playing as another faction.
The idea is excellent. Also, I suggest that we don't neglect the Barbarian Castle. Let's add a university, a library, and a conservatory to all maps for them, which will be removed when playing as another faction.
For example, on Battle of the Undead, right? :smile42:
No, why on Battle.net? :D I misspoke, of course, not on all maps! Just on some, people categorically refuse to play as Barbarians. :(. The topic of discussion is: on which maps would such a buff for Barbarians be appropriate.
No, why on Battle of the Worlds? :D Of course, not on all maps! Just on some, people absolutely refuse to play as Barbarians. :(. Basically, the topic of discussion: on which maps would such a buff for Barbarians be appropriate.
In my opinion, any map should be playable with all races. Otherwise, fans of randomness might just be unlucky with a restart. You don't have to look far for an example. Recently, we started a friendly match with Papa Lars on Iron. I immediately got Barbarians. I'm not an expert, but I think playing as Barbarians on that map is just terrible. Or at least it's possible, but difficult. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't played it properly. But then the best players wouldn't restart Barbarians. So, then I got Death, but I messed up there, and Papa Lars suggested another restart. Then it got fun. I got Barbarians again. Restart. Then Barbarians were given to Lars. Restart. And then it really got interesting. I got Barbarians three times in a row. I was already starting to laugh quietly and think that it was fate. I even had the thought of playing as them. But I still asked for a restart. Then it was normal. So, the conclusion is: you might be unlucky with restarts and have to play with what you have. Of course, in this case, you can rage quit. But it's still much nicer when you have the opportunity to play any race on a map. And then it won't be offensive to lose on a map just because you got a race that is obviously weak on that map, and sometimes even unplayable.
In general, Papa Lars, you have a lot of work ahead of you if we want to make the maps better, more interesting, and more playable.
By the way, I suggest that the best players go through each of the maps that are listed for the Tournaments. Let's say, give them a review. Which maps are unnecessary and why. Maybe if they are tweaked, it will be more interesting to play on them? This would be very useful and valuable. And for all players, and for me as an organizer, when choosing maps for the next tournament. I'm really looking forward to your opinions, criticism, and suggestions. :smile13:
"Как это странно всегда.. Вроде бы взрослые люди, А в голове ерунда.. Мечтаем как дети о чуде.."
I got three Barbarians in a row. I'm starting to chuckle and think it's fate. I even had the thought of playing as him. But I still asked for a restart. After that, everything was fine.
Have you tried closing the Barbarian in the editor? ;)
And in general, before balancing the Barbarian, you need to learn how to play as him. For example, Seaman considered the Barbarian to be quite strong on Iron difficulty. Chameleon, Mordount, and Gagatek performed wonders with Barbarians in the arena. Again, he's quite good on PlayStation.
This isn't about me, by the way. I play Barbarians quite poorly.
Have you tried disabling the Barbarian faction in the editor? ;)
In general, before balancing the Barbarians, you need to learn how to play as them. For example, Seaman considered the Barbarians to be quite strong on Iron difficulty. Chameleon, Mordount, and Gagatek performed amazing feats with the Barbarians on the Circle of Magi map. Also, they are quite good on the PS (presumably referring to a specific map or game mode).
This isn't about me, by the way. I play Barbarians rather poorly.
You can disable anything:) But that's not interesting:) If disabling skills or spells can still provide some benefit, then disabling factions is a different story! Otherwise, you can end up with only advantageous factions on the map. And that's not necessarily wrong, but it's just not interesting... it reduces the choice of tactics and interesting solutions...
I completely agree that you need to be able to play a specific faction. But sometimes, on a map, you know in advance that playing with a certain faction is, if not impossible, then very difficult without a certain amount of luck and a specific set of circumstances. So, what's the point of disabling it? Wouldn't it be easier to bring everything into balance? For the Barbarians, for example, you could add a Conservatory, to level the playing field a bit :) After all, it's very difficult for Barbarians to learn magic... they are fighters! And this would be at least some kind of solution :) Go to a hut - learn magic, or eat an altar, run around the shrines, and then you can also go to the Conservatory: buy magic for the future. Well, that's just my humble opinion :)
"Как это странно всегда.. Вроде бы взрослые люди, А в голове ерунда.. Мечтаем как дети о чуде.."
You can close anything you want:) But that's not interesting:) If closing skills or spells can still provide some benefit... then closing castles shouldn't be allowed! Otherwise, you can end up with only advantageous castles on the map. And that's not necessarily wrong, but it's just not interesting... it reduces the choice of tactics and interesting solutions...
I understand that Oxygen was talking about a specific start. If you restart as a Barbarian on a given map, you should have closed it before the specific start. And leave the other castles open. And there was no need to do a million restarts.
But sometimes on the map, you know in advance that playing with a certain castle is impossible without some luck and a specific set of circumstances.
Here it is, the key point. You knew that Barbarians were inherently weak on Iron. And Seaman knew something else. And he won ;)
For Barbarians, you could add a conservatory to level the playing field a bit.
Let's put it this way. How many times have you played Iron with Barbarians to say that they are weak there and need to be buffed? You need to buff when there is at least some data. Until then, all buffs will be a shot in the dark.
For example, Life was buffed on Iron only after many, many games with Life.
CTPAHHuK
