Nature Structures — General

oxygen_hl

17 years ago

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snaiper133

Yes, I agree, I got carried away. But with the same Angel and other life-enhancing spells, it works great (except perhaps for Prayer). And Mirror also works well when cast on Titans, if you're already having trouble with Hypnosis. I didn't mean to offend Wanderer; he has a lot of experience, but I know from my own experience that when you play with the same races for a long time, you kind of "forget" about the strengths of others. But to say that the 5th level spell is weak, not only for Order but also for Chaos, is, in my opinion, wrong.

As Chameleon once rightly pointed out: "a spell that can be dispelled has no place on the fifth level" ©. Otherwise, it turns out that a second-level spell can negate a fifth-level spell. Mirror of Pain, besides being dispellable, is also quite useless because, as a rule, troops are not lost in the game, meaning our troops take almost no damage. And if we're talking about the endgame, then no one ever kills troops there; the main targets are heroes, and if the heroes are down, it doesn't matter much what spells the troops have. Chaos has simply weak Armageddon and Tea Kettle on the fifth level. And in general, 4 skills in resistance completely negate the fifth level of Chaos.

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CTPAHHuK

17 years ago

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snaiper133

But with the same Angel and other life-giving spells, it works great (except perhaps Prayer).

That's what I'm saying, Life is the best. But only on the 5th level. You'll be glad to have any spell from the higher levels.

snaiper133

And Mirror is also not bad when used on Titans, if you're already having trouble with Hypnosis.

Firstly, Mirror, like Sparks, is a spell that a good player will only use if they've forgotten how to cast other spells. Secondly, you need to know when to use it. Thirdly, if you do cast it, it should be on Djinns, Mages, or Hobbits (for example, on the Throne).

snaiper133

...I know from experience that when you play the same races for a long time, you kind of "forget" about the strengths of others. But to say that the 5th level of Order, and even Chaos, is weak, I think that's wrong.

Actually, I like to start with a random faction, I hope many have already figured that out :)
As for Chaos, its 5th level is very weak, judging by its usefulness on many maps. After all, the hope is mainly on Dis. Order has the same story. The hope is on Steal. The total efficiency is 33%. Isn't that a bit low? Life has 100%, which is exactly what you need for the 5th level. I put Corpses and Nature in the middle because there are really only 2 useful spells out of 3.

We're arguing here, we're arguing. Now Zubr will come and ruin everything :)))

In reply to oxygen_hl

snaiper133

17 years ago

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oxygen_hl

As Chameleon once aptly noted: “A spell that can be dispelled has no place on the fifth level” ©. Otherwise, it turns out that the second level can negate the fifth. The Mirror of Pain, in addition to being dispellable, is also quite useless in itself, because in the game, troops are usually not lost, that is, our troops almost do not take damage. And if we are talking about the final stage, then no one ever kills troops there; the main targets are heroes, and if the heroes are defeated, then what spells the troops have is not so important.

Chaos has simply weak Armageddon and Haste on the fifth level. And in general, 4 skills in resistance completely negate the fifth level of Chaos.

Not even the second, but the first. Yes, I agree that the Mirror is not so relevant in the final stage, but Hypnosis and stealing all the spells are very relevant in the final stage. And if we reason like that, then almost all spells can be dispelled or canceled with Counterspell or Dispel, but firstly, you still need to have time to do this (for example, before the hypnotized creature/hero attacks), and secondly, it is clear that the main hero will not do this, and the secondary hero may not even survive. So, it's not that simple. By the way, if the Angel in Equilibris is moved to the third level, then what remains on the fifth? Sinking and Divine Intervention?
Resistance certainly negates it, but not all heroes will have resistance, not to mention creatures. Armageddon is not relevant because it affects allies, but Haste and especially Disarm can be very useful.

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oxygen_hl

17 years ago

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snaiper133

Not even second, but first.

Fly with Aeroflot planes. Play Equilibrius, that is. There, it's second. Although, the same hypnosis can be removed with Exorcism, so sometimes it's first, too.

By the way, if an angel in Equilibrius is moved to the third level, what remains on the fifth? Sleigh and Divine Intervention?

The angel is on the fourth. On the fifth, there's a sleigh, a divan, and resurrection.

Resistance certainly negates it, but there definitely won't be resistance on all heroes, not to mention creatures.

Really? I just finished a party yesterday. Five heroes had resistance of at least 78%. Against Chaos, no less.

Armageddon is not relevant because it hits your own units, but a teapot and especially Dispel can be very useful.

Dispel, yes. But a teapot is too weak, as is Inferno.

In reply to yuriy

oxygen_hl

17 years ago

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yuriy

This expansion pack came out after the first version of the fourth game, while Winds of War came out after the expansion pack...

That's confusing. I can definitely say that 3.51 was released after WoW, specifically on October 4, 2004. If I'm not mistaken, 3.42 was also released later.

yuriy

I don't understand why you would install the expansion pack on top of Winds of War???

If you install the expansion pack on TGS, crashes and desynchronization are very likely. Stable operation is only guaranteed with WoW.

In reply to oxygen_hl

yuriy

17 years ago

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oxygen_hl

resurrection.

yeah, there's no resurrection in Heroes of Might and Magic, except for angels...

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snaiper133

17 years ago

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oxygen_hl

An Angel on level four. On level five, there are sleds, a sofa, and resurrection.

Oh, really? I just finished a game yesterday. Five of my heroes had resistance of at least 78%. It was against Chaos.

Ah, I see. So, a new spell has been added on level five for the Life faction. Very good! Because it seems to me that Life was a bit overlooked, and there was some imbalance in its favor. And with resurrection, you can conduct all battles without any losses. Of course, you could say that resurrection was a secondary skill, but firstly, even on Grand Master difficulty, it's only 50%, and secondly, you needed level 5 for it, which can sometimes be difficult to achieve, and it's a waste of experience points. But now, if you have resurrection, you don't need to level up that secondary skill. Well, Angels have always been there, but now, if something happens, the hero can resurrect. In general, they have significantly developed resurrection for the Life faction (secondary skill + spell + Angels), and I think it's very correct and logical. After all, it's Life, and that's its specialty in the fourth game, and in other versions as well. They have emphasized the playstyle of this wonderful faction once again!

Well done! But probably not everyone had resistance leveled up; only some did, while others had artifacts?

In reply to oxygen_hl

CTPAHHuK

17 years ago

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oxygen_hl

Confused me. I can definitely say that 3.51 was released after WoW, specifically on October 4, 2004. If I'm not mistaken, 3.42 was also released later.

What's there to be confused about? :) The logic of version numbering itself indicates that it was released later. If it were released earlier, they would have called it 2.42. :D

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Слоныш

17 years ago

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snaiper133

oxygen_hlReally? I just finished a game yesterday. Five heroes had resistance of 78% or higher. It was against Chaos.

Good job! But probably not all of them had resistance maxed out, only some, and others had artifacts?Can I answer? I saw everything, I was peeking!

No artifacts, all had Combat skills from Expert to Grand, and correspondingly, resistance skills from Expert to Master.

Also, four out of five heroes were Grand Masters in magic, I should note.

In reply to Слоныш

snaiper133

17 years ago

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Wow! He leveled up the heroes really well! With such heroes, an army isn't even needed, although most likely two slots weren't empty after all:)).

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snaiper133

17 years ago

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Tell me, did you also see the final battle? Did Oxygen win? And what was the opponent's lineup? What magic did the heroes have? Starting castles? It's just interesting.

In reply to snaiper133

Слоныш

17 years ago

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snaiper133

Tell me, did you also see the final battle? Did Oxygen win? And what was the opponent's lineup? What magic did the heroes use? Starting Castles? I’m just curious.

*ominously* I saw EVERYTHING.

Detailed and quite amusing reports about the massacre can be read here and here; I won’t even try to write anything myself. :rolleyes:

In reply to snaiper133

Dr Motor

17 years ago

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snaiper133

Ah, so that's what it is. So, a new spell has been added at level 5 for the Life faction. Very good! Because it seems to me that the Life faction was a bit neglected, and there was some imbalance not in favor of Life. And with resurrection, you can basically fight all battles without any losses. Of course, you could say that resurrection was a secondary skill, but firstly, even on Grand Master level, it's only 50%, and secondly, you needed 5 levels for it, which is sometimes difficult to achieve, and it's a pity to spend experience on it. But now it's good, if you have resurrection, you don't need to level up this secondary skill at all. Well, angels have always been there, but now the hero can resurrect if something happens. In general, they have significantly developed resurrection for the Life faction (secondary skill + spell + angels), in my opinion, it's very correct and logical, because that's what Life is all about, that's its specialty in the 4th version, and in other versions too. They emphasized the playing style of this wonderful faction once again!

Well done! But probably not everyone had resistance maxed out, but only some, and others had artifacts?

Yes, they have greatly enhanced resurrection in the Equilibrum expansion - if you want, you can level it up to 100%! Cardinal (Nobility) + Grand Master of Resurrection + Ryan's Staff = 100%. But in my opinion, it's not worth it in online play, unless it all works out by itself.

P.S. By the way, Sniper, read the reports that Slonysh links to - it's very interesting - everything is described in great detail there; and the whole thread where they describe the tournament is just a treasure trove of theory about online play - it's a pity I couldn't participate in this tournament - when I registered, the tournament was already in progress:(

In reply to Dr Motor

Тралоск

17 years ago

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I'm the least competent player when it comes to Nature, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt ;)
I've never played against a human player using this faction :( So, my experience comes from playing against the AI :)
I choose Elves + Griffins + Dragons. It's a ranged combat strategy; Griffins are essential because I always try to develop a Demonologist (under the Vampire's influence, they are simply BEASTS). I move slowly across the map because I choose Tactics and Priest of Life instead of a fast-moving unit. Elves destroy everything without taking losses, Magic Dragons do the same, and Griffins cover their allies. From the Portal, I usually take Water Elementals (they are excellent against heroes) or Mantises (if I'm sure I'll have to fight against the Castle). If Nature Castle isn't my preferred choice, I take Fire Elementals for defense (I don't value Flower People much).
But if I were playing against a human, I would definitely give up on Elves (Tigers are cheaper, they won't die on the second turn, they are more resilient, and they don't slow down the army), and on Magic Dragons (the opponent will likely have magic resistance). But I don't respect Unicorns at all. They are slow, they move on the ground, and the Blindness effect isn't guaranteed. Their slightly more powerful attack (due to the larger weekly growth) isn't worth giving up the wonderful Griffin bonus.
P.S.: I would be happy if any experienced Druids agreed to teach me how to play Nature by inflicting a few crushing defeats on me! :smile10: I definitely need to get better at playing this race. :smile02:

oxygen_hl

17 years ago

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Griffons require a rather expensive Stronghold. Therefore, they are not always built. If a Stronghold is already present at the start, the choice becomes obvious.