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#291
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If there are enough enemies, no illusions will save you. They simply won't withstand more than one hit. The goal is to defeat the neutrals as quickly as possible and with the fewest losses, so Nature has many more options here. There's a unicorn that has a very good chance of blinding an enemy with its first attack, but it won't gain anything from it. There are also phoenixes and mantises that can be used to finish off enemies.


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



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#292
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ZYbr;194930
If there are enough enemies, no illusions will save you. They simply won't withstand more than one hit. The goal is to defeat the neutrals as quickly as possible and with the fewest losses, so Nature has many more variations in this regard. There's a unicorn that has a very good chance of blinding an enemy with its first attack, but it won't gain anything from it. There are also phoenixes and mantises that can be used to finish off enemies.

It sounds very convincing, but I mainly played as Haven, Necropolis, and Nature. I didn't play as Nature much before, and I didn't really like it.
Well, we'll practice. :) :)

But still, Haven has a stronger ranged army.

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#293
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The ranged army of Haven is certainly stronger, but...the ranged potential of Sylvan will still be greater, and this is mainly due to the archer hero.


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



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#294
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ZYbr;194942
The ranged army of Haven is certainly stronger, but...the ranged potential of Sylvan will still be greater, and more so specifically due to the hero-archer.

Then it's not just Sylvan – you can also get a hero-archer in Castle and Chaos. I was initially talking about the entire faction as a whole – Haven can build an entire army for ranged attacks.

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#295
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Hey everyone! During the holidays, I played Heroes 4 with a friend. He was playing as Order, and I, as always, chose my favorite, Nature. The map was a medium-sized, resource-rich one, and we met in the center of the map by chance. He had: 90 Djinns, 15 Titans, and an Order Mage hero (knowing level 5 Order magic). I had: 9 Manticores, 11 Phoenixes, a Nature Mage hero (level 4 magic), and a Life Mage hero (level 4 magic). I saw him first and realized I needed to retreat because I also had an Archer level 18 with a fully upgraded Combat skill line (Combat, Melee, Archer, Resistance) and unrecruited troops in two Nature castles (he had three Order castles)!! I would have naturally retreated, considering my speed on the map. But I decided to test if my friend could defeat me and attacked him myself. He wasn't prepared. On my first turn, I healed my Phoenixes and attacked the Djinns, dealing 25 damage. Then, my Life Mage hero cast a spell to boost the morale of all my units. My Nature Mage hero then cast Anti-Magic on the Phoenixes! After that, I didn't have to worry about the Phoenixes anymore! On the next turn, the Phoenixes defeated his hero (he didn't have an immortality ability), and my friend surrendered. Then, we decided to reload the game, and my friend split up the Djinns into smaller stacks and attacked me. He wiped out my entire army without any losses because, on my first turn, I couldn't reach either the Djinns or his hero, and the individual Djinns were slowing everyone down (Song of the World, Slow). That's what happened. This shows how important tactics and strategy are on the battlefield (unit placement, obstacles, etc.). We didn't finish that game, but I think I could have won. I planned to retreat with that army, recruit more troops, add the Archer to my army, and then attack him with my main force. Or, there was another option: use the Archer with support from the mages to raid and weaken his army. Maybe someone can suggest how to effectively fight against Order while playing as Nature in a game against a human player? I think Nature has the hardest time fighting against Order (Djinns, magic, the lack of spells that Nature has to remove buffs), and it has the least chance of winning against Order, of course, assuming the Order player plays correctly. And in practice, when I play as Nature, I always have more problems against Order. I think that, first, a "barbarian" tactic of raiding with the Archer can be used, second, the Tactics skill can be upgraded, and fast Phoenixes and Manticores can be used to quickly eliminate the opponent's heroes (first the Order mages, as they are the most dangerous, then everyone else), because a prolonged game usually favors Order, and third, the Sanctuary spell can be used (in that game, I had it in my castle; my Life hero just hadn't learned level 4 Life magic yet). What do you think? I would be very grateful for any advice, tactics, etc.
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#296
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Download tactics, a fast unit (rogue with GM pathfinding), life mage, druid, and archer (sometimes they use two druids and a life mage, but without tactics – it depends on the armies). Try to clear all the key points on the map as quickly as possible and then attack the enemy.
On medium-sized maps, the maximum time for this is one month, but some players do it faster.


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



In reply to snaiper133
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#297
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snaiper133
My Nature mage hero is moving, and I'm casting Antimagic on the Phoenixes! After that, you don't have to worry about the Phoenixes anymore! On the next turn, the Phoenixes kill the hero (he didn't have Immortality), and my friend surrenders.
snaiper133
Then we decided to restart. My friend distributed the single Djinns among the stacks and attacked me himself. He wiped out my entire army without any losses because, on the first turn, I couldn't reach either the Djinns or his hero, and the single Djinns were slowing everyone down (Song of the World, Slow). That's what happened.
What prevented you from casting Antimagic on the Phoenixes in the second battle? All the buffs would have been removed.
Heroes of might and magic 4 on-line World Championships
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#298
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CTPAHHuK
What prevented you from casting antimagic on the Phoenixes in the second battle? All the buffs would have been removed.

In the second battle, the druid didn't have time to do it because a single djinn suddenly attacked, which immediately cast "mirth" on our mage hero, and as a result, after that single djinn, the opponent's mage hero attacked and cast "hypnosis" on my druid. Of course, the hypnosis was later removed by the mage-priest (fortunately, he had the exorcism spell), but as a result, the druid didn't participate in the first round, and due to the "song of peace" being cast by single djinn on the manticores and phoenixes, they also didn't participate in the attack. And at this time, the djinn were attacking with ice bolts, and the titans were shooting. My druid was under hypnosis, the mage-priest regularly removed the hypnosis, but besides that, they couldn't do anything useful. That's how powerful single djinn are. In the first battle, all the djinn were in one stack because I was attacking, and my friend didn't have time to regroup.
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#299
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snaiper133
a single Djinn cast Mirth on its own mage hero, and as a result, the enemy mage hero went after it.
If I remember correctly, the applied magic only lasts for the next turn. It seems the enemy mage simply had higher speed.
С самого начала позаботься о своем месте в жизни, чтобы не уподобиться маятнику. /Херберт. Ф./
Клан: "Смертельный Альянс" - "Mortal Alliance"
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#300
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snaiper133
In the second battle, the druid didn't have time to do it, because suddenly a single djinn appeared, which immediately cast "Mirth" on its mage hero, and after that, the opponent's mage hero went against my druid and cast "Hypnotize" on him.

Hmm... how did the druid become vulnerable to hypnotism? Why didn't he hide him in the rear? That's usually where the druid belongs;)
Well, I don't know... here, the only option is to hide your mages; I think they'll survive for about two turns - that should be enough - "Antimagic," "Guardian Angel," "Mass Fortuna," and we'll slowly keep the titans in defense with praying mantises. We'll eliminate everyone, starting with the mage, with buffed phoenixes.

And does the Life mage not have "Mass Exorcism," as I understand it?
Does the druid have "Mass Haste"?

In general, it would be good for you to have some good artifact for a battle with such an enemy - like a "Mind Shield" or "Chaos Armor" - something like that - is there nothing nearby?
LeSHiJ-MaX

If I remember correctly, the applied magic only affects the next turn. It seems the opponent's mage simply had more speed.

No, you're wrong, Leshiy - the applied "Mirth" takes effect immediately;)

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#301
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Dr Motor
No, Leshy, you remember incorrectly – the applied morale takes effect immediately.
Leshy is right; morale takes effect at the beginning of each round of combat. During the round, morale can change a hundred times, but in the end, the value at the end of the round will be taken into account. The only exception is summoned units, for which morale is applied immediately, regardless of the stage of the battle.
Heroes of might and magic 4 on-line World Championships
In reply to CTPAHHuK
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#302
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CTPAHHuK
Leshy is right, morale takes effect at the beginning of each round of combat. During the round, morale can change a hundred times, but in the end, the value at the end of the round will be taken into account. The only exception is summoned units, for which morale is immediately applied, regardless of the stage of the battle.

Is that correct? If so, I apologize, Leshy.
But I will still check this.

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#303
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Why doesn't anyone consider Phoenixes to be a primary offensive force? 20% of the army can be restored at any moment during the battle, so there's no fear of losing them during an attack... plus, they have the strength of a dragon, serpent strike, their fiery breath, and decent stats...
ОФФТОП - МОЁ ВТОРОЕ ИМЯ :smile01:
Мои карты: /attachments/12680/> и /attachments/10952/>
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#304
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yuriy, this is a specific situation being discussed; read carefully! Post No. 290. A Druid with level 4 Nature – how can we even talk about Dragon Strength? It's not there at all at level 4 ;) And of course, the Hero needed to be hidden... Dense ranks, mages in the very back, under cover, then no hypnosis would reach them. Use antimagic on the Phoenixes, and curses and ice bolts will no longer scare them, nor will songs of peace. On the second turn, use antimagic on the Manticores and go ahead and bind the Titans. And then the Druid can get down to his direct duties: summoning, Hive swarm. Depending on the situation. The main thing here is the correct arrangement; you need to take some small units for cover or at least divide the Manticores so that they block the Heroes. Well, that’s just my IMHO :)


"Как это странно всегда..
Вроде бы взрослые люди,
А в голове ерунда..
Мечтаем как дети о чуде.."
In reply to Dr Motor
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#305
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Dr Motor
Hmm... how did the druid become vulnerable to hypnosis? Why didn't he put him in the back ranks? Druids usually belong there. ;)

I'm sorry, but doesn't hypnosis work regardless of line of sight? That is, regardless of whether the creature/hero can see the mage or not? After all, hypnosis affects the mind, right? I haven't played in a while, I don't remember, but I think that's how it works. Therefore, it doesn't matter if the druid was protected or not.

Well, I don't know... the only option here is to hide your mages. I think they'll survive for about two turns - that should be enough - antimagic, guardian angel, mass fortune, and we slowly hold the titans in defense with archons. We eliminate everyone starting with the mage with buffed phoenixes.

Antimagic is like the ability of the Chaos Knight. If you cast it, you can't cast blessing spells afterward. Complete immunity for the entire battle. You can't even resurrect phoenixes! This is definitely a mistake. If it were possible to bless and resurrect phoenixes after casting antimagic, that would be amazing! Therefore, you always need a tactician who increases parameters regardless of anything! A well-developed tactician + casting antimagic = victory over Order, which will only be left to kill the tactician to remove all the bonuses from the screams.

Added 3 minutes ago
LeSHiJ-MaXIf I remember correctly, the cast magic only works on the next turn. It seems the enemy mage just had more speed.

It turns out that's the case. I don't know how it happened, but his hero went before mine. Maybe the morale dropped at the beginning of the battle - I got lucky!

Added 16 minutes ago
yuriy
Why doesn't anyone consider phoenixes to be the main attacking force? 20% of the squad can be restored at any point in the battle, so they are not afraid to lose them in an attack... + dragon strength, snake strike, their fiery breath, and decent stats...


Why not? I always build phoenixes and consider them very strong. Earlier, when I was just starting to play Heroes 4, I built dragons because of confusion and ranged combat. But then I quickly realized that phoenixes can bring much more benefit. In general, in the Nature army, melee units (phoenixes, manticores, unicorns, archer hero) can bring great benefits, and not ranged units (dragons, valkyries, elves), because Nature and Life magic (and most often it is the second mage) is aimed at increasing the parameters of creatures, and therefore at melee combat. These are spells like dragon strength (it's worth something on its own, compare dragon strength on dragons and phoenixes, it's useless for dragons), giant strength, mass luck, mass first strike (phoenixes, unicorns), mass speed (not only speed, but also an increase in movement!! - which means we can reach the enemy on the first turn), antimagic again (you can't cast it on dragons and valkyries:))). And if you take Life magic, then melee units rule again (heavenly protection, general blessing, etc.). I would take ranged units for Nature if it weren't for their slowness on the adventure map. This is another argument for taking fast melee units, and not slow ranged units (for example, valkyries). Well, all this is aimed at playing against a human, against the computer you can play and choose what you like, what creature is more aesthetically pleasing, etc. You can even build a Stronghold for griffins. In a real game against a human, building griffins and elves leads to falling behind in development and a quick defeat, because Nature doesn't work without a portal.

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