Fantasy vs. Science Fiction — Books

XEL

17 years ago

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Vis, but in your opinion, what will happen to the dragon if a rocket hits it?

In reply to XEL

Wistrit

17 years ago

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If, in your opinion, dragons are invulnerable to energy and magic, fly at supersonic speeds, cast teleport, have a thick layer of diamond scales, and still fly, have fiery blood, and are practically invulnerable, then how do knights with very rarely enchanted weapons defeat them?

Why not? Maybe the weapons are enchanted with magic that can cut stars in half...
And what is the ratio...?

I can't stand it when people, trying to defend their point of view, start engaging in such nitpicking.

I wasn't doing that; I just wanted to clarify because the phrase

A fighter can fire from a ship's cannon, which will pierce the hide of any dragon.

Really sounds ambiguous... I didn't think a fighter was a ship. Accordingly, I didn't think it had a "ship's cannon."
Moreover, I didn't say, "ha ha ha, what nonsense, you're completely wrong..." I asked, "but how will it hit?" ;)

Revan, Lock, and I have provided enough arguments; read the thread.

You think I don't read it? :) Wow... I'm really good at making up posts on the fly:
As far as I can see, I'm refuting these arguments. Read the thread ;) let's continue...

This is the destruction of a planet.

F.A.K.K 2 will save us. And if it doesn't, the planet will split into allods and hang in magical space.

It will pierce it easily; you'll hit it perfectly. As you can see, I can write something like that too, and it won't be easy to refute, right?

It's pointless to analyze; no one has checked.

ordinary metal, no properties. Do you want me to refute it for you?
"No, it's enchanted metal, lots of magic!!". We repeat the paragraph from beginning to end again and again. And nothing new. It becomes boring.

It's also pointless to analyze.
Yes, it's enchanted metal!!
Or maybe it's not metal...:)

What can't be said about a flying lizard.

I don't know where you've seen flying lizards.
But dragons have huge wings.
And what about the strength of a giant??? Or a cyclops??? Or an angel???...!! Or a devil?!?!?!
The presence of such strength clearly does not speak in favor of the weakness of dragons.
Have you carefully examined the wings of dragons? Have you studied them, perhaps?

Dragons cannot cast teleport.
Any questions?

Especially the dragons of Pern cannot "cast" it. They also cannot travel through time.
Dragons are also not heralds of the coming Black Era and the power of chaos. They are also not the keepers of the last knowledge. They also cannot take the form of other creatures. They also do not use telekinesis...
Dragons are also not the progenitors and guardians of all the elements.
Of course...

peasants. A hundred or half a hundred peasants kill a flying creature with their old grandfathers' pitchforks. Are their pitchforks magical?

Perhaps they were blessed by Elrath himself and imbued their pitchforks with magical properties to cut through dragon hide and instilled in their souls the strength.
Or maybe peasants are just so tough that they could take on a regiment of cyborgs 100 to 1...

1. The arrow was perfectly ordinary, just a favorite. Reread the book.
2. This breach was in the covering of dragon stones, which, after lying for a long time, grew into the dragon's belly, thereby covering it with a hard layer. Without this incident, its belly was completely bare, as dragons are not born with gemstones growing into their bellies.

1. I don't need to reread it, although I will do it anyway ;)
Nothing was said about it being a favorite. It was said about its peculiarity.
2. Dragons are different. And maybe the gemstones were just an additional protection for the hide.

Vis, what do you think will happen to a dragon if it gets hit by a rocket?

I don't know. I haven't seen it. It's impossible, I'm sure, definitely.

I'm tired of this. It's clear that a dragonophile will look for any, even the most stupid and obviously false arguments to defend their point of view.

Of course, I will.
But who started it?
You'll get stupidity in return. Moreover, the arguments are not obviously false. At least they are an assumption, not "it will definitely pierce it, it's definitely not stronger" and so on.
I'm no less tired, but I don't want to give up.

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and stop duplicating

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I can't duplicate

Added 35 seconds ago
and I envy you with fierce envy

Tomorrow holds no promises
Except the ones we've made

kcfgogbfalgfl

17 years ago

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I decided to completely rethink everything. And now, I've fully switched to the Sci-Fi side. So, let's take a small example, a comparison of one type of unit (let's call it that). Although, of course, this won't say anything about superiority, because in battle, the overall strength decides everything, not the strength of a specific unit. Infantry. What usually represents infantry in fantasy? Dwarves, spearmen, ordinary soldiers, peasants, and so on. In Sci-Fi, there are far fewer close-combat infantry units than Soldiers at close range. That is, in a battle, close-combat and ranged warriors would fight. Let's take an example: Knights (without horses, just in armor with a sword, etc.) against Clones from Star Wars. Before the knights reach the clones, at least half of them will already be gone. That is, at long range, they will get blaster shots to the head. At medium range, they will get grenades. And then, only then, will there be close combat. However, even in close combat, the Clones will outperform the knights. Well, that's just sentimentality. However, all non-magical creatures can be crossed off the list, because they won't be able to do anything against Sci-Fi characters. Tell me, what can a Sword or an arrow do to a Super Battle Droid? So, 50% of Fantasy units are eliminated. Magic, I don't deny, is a powerful thing. There's Armageddon, or Inferno, or something that weakens. But Sci-Fi has an answer to that. Artillery bombardment, for example, using battlecruisers. This is just a small part of what I wanted to say, because it's hard to say everything. And if we take a "sword made of super metal" or a "super dragon" or something else, then I can say "super-duper-mega cyborg" that is not afraid of ANYTHING, and in my opinion, that would be nonsense. And I don't know why I decided to write in this thread at one in the morning. Brr, I think I'm going crazy

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Arandor

17 years ago

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Why compare units?... Some people find one thing more interesting, while others find something else more interesting.)))
In NF, units are almost like soldiers from real life, only with better armor and cooler weapons. But there are no similar units from fantasy in real life... except for knights, whose era has already passed.)))

Maybe there are more possibilities and features in NF, but I like fantasy more... maybe because it's a fairy-tale world and it's less like real life than NF (by the way, maybe our life will be like NF in the future) and there's more romance there.)))

If we consider the worlds as a whole, which one would you like to live in?... Maybe the answer to this question will determine your preference for the genres.)))
I would like to see the fantasy world more.))) Although I wouldn't mind flying in space, on some kind of spaceship, with friends, completing missions, flying around planets, etc. (although you can do that in fantasy too, only on a smaller scale... although it depends on the world). I also wouldn't rule out a world similar to the Fallout world, i.e., after a nuclear war.))) There's also its own kind of romance, just like in the first two.)))

P.S. And most importantly, all three worlds will have places like taverns, pubs, and bars... although in the last two, there probably won't be fairs with contests, magical forests, and other fantasy delights

Be strong. Believe

Майор Вихрь

17 years ago

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by the way, maybe in the future our life will be sci-fi

Approximately, that might be the case, but our understanding of the future is still quite primitive.

Again, while reading Meggot's post, I want to clarify that sci-fi is not just galactic-scale wars, not a distant future or distant galaxies. It can even be our present day. For example, a time machine was invented, and the characters end up not in the future, but in the distant past! It is enough to change one important detail in the modern world, and essentially you get sci-fi.

if we consider the worlds as a whole, which one would you like to live in?

It depends on who I am. :) Either a simple peasant or a hero who saves the world. Personally, I would never want to be a peasant in a medieval world... A hero? Yes, from the reader's point of view, it looks incredibly romantic, and his adventures seem incredibly exciting, but it is not a fact that the hero himself thinks so :)

O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal

eXeCuToR

17 years ago

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If we consider the worlds in general, I wouldn't mind living comfortably in my own. Or in any other, for that matter. But a medieval world isn't very appealing. If it's a fantasy setting, then there are no complaints, but what's good about the actual Middle Ages? There's nowhere to bathe, you won't see any magic, and no orcs either. It's boring. Meg, you've discovered America – you said that weapons in the future are better than in the Middle Ages, and I wouldn't have even thought of that. Unless it's some kind of post-apocalyptic setting, of course. In reality, comparing who would win is a pointless exercise. Why bother? But if it pleases you, then go ahead. So, in terms of troops, primitives will lose – unequivocally. The power lies in magic. Its possibilities are limitless by definition. But the possibilities of science are likely limited. And as a result, super-duper cyborgs will no longer be able to upgrade, but magic will still be able to become stronger. So, that's how it is. I've explained it a bit clumsily, I know.

Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

kcfgogbfalgfl

17 years ago

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Once again, while reading Meggot's post, I want to clarify that sci-fi isn't just about galactic-scale wars, or a distant future, or distant galaxies.

Did I ever claim the opposite?;)

Meg, you've certainly discovered America – you said that weapons in the future are better than in the Middle Ages, who would have thought.

After several pages of comparing dragons and fighter jets, I suddenly felt like comparing ordinary soldiers. :D

If we consider the worlds as a whole, which one would you prefer to live in?.... Maybe the answer to this question will determine your preference for genres.

A year ago, I would have definitely said that I'd prefer to live in a fantasy world. But if you think about it, a fantasy world is also just a modernized Middle Ages :D.
You still have to relieve yourself in pits (or wherever these "rituals" are performed :D).
Heh, and I only just noticed the picture that VisTrit posted on the first page. :) Is that a fairy? If so, is she, like many other fairies, of "smaller" stature?:D
By the way, if you remove the wings and the butterflies, this "fairy" will look like an intergalactic prostitute. Well, that's the association I have.:D

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Майор Вихрь

17 years ago

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Did I ever claim the opposite?

Of course not. I was just clarifying;

It's just that, in my opinion, the question "what's cooler, science or magic?" (a mega-dragon versus an army of the future, as a specific case) is a topic for pointless arguments and belongs in a general discussion forum.

By the way, if you remove the wings and these butterflies, this "fairy" will look like an intergalactic prostitute. Well, that's the association I have.

For the sake of this topic and its continued existence, let's not make jokes like that;). The hint is clear?:)

P.S. And in the poll, a balance has been established again, 50/50. Who doubted that friendship would win?:)

O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal

eXeCuToR

17 years ago

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Well, I had my doubts, and I still do. Someone will probably come along and mess up the balance.

Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

Arandor

17 years ago

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Well, fantasy doesn't necessarily have to be like the Middle Ages (and besides, all these conveniences are minor compared to the world itself))). It can be altered, modernized... or adapted to be trendy, with all sorts of earrings, hairstyles (remember the portraits from games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights; they don't put five earrings on each ear themselves), besides establishments for the aforementioned trendy things, you can come up with many more... almost everything that exists in sci-fi, except for flying on ships... although, if you have imagination, you can find something similar here too, like flying cities (the main thing is that it doesn't look stupid and fits into the world)...
And by the way, remember Arcanum? There, there is both magic and technology, which makes the world even more interesting... IMHO =)

Vikh, you don't necessarily have to be a hero who has to save the whole world))) you can easily get by with being a regular adventurer traveling the world... or something else x)

P.S. In general, if you have a good imagination, you can come up with a fantasy that won't be inferior to sci-fi :)

P.P.S. Might and Magic is fantasy! And we're all here, which means we all love fantasy!

Be strong. Believe

In reply to Arandor

Wistrit

17 years ago

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By the way, even in Fallout, there is magic (if you haven't seen it, remember the shamans and "masters of creatures").
These genres go hand in hand. Sci-fi is not just a banal "future," but something else. And fantasy is not just a simple "past," but something else as well.

P.S. Don't touch the picture; it doesn't resemble "that" at all. It's an image of a crossroads of worlds.

Tomorrow holds no promises
Except the ones we've made

kcfgogbfalgfl

17 years ago

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P.S. Don't touch the picture; it doesn't resemble "that thing" at all. It's an image of a crossroads of worlds.

What "thing" are you talking about? :). And why not make the picture the other way around? :D. I mean, a girl from the future, all in latex, with a gun, in high heels, in a fantasy world, in a forest, for example. And next to her are all sorts of fairies, dragons, etc. :D

P.S. I thought fantasy would win the poll... But luckily I was wrong, and friendship won :)
By the way, Vis, why did you write Fantasy in English, but SF in Russian?

Especially, the dragons of Pern are not good at "casting" spells. They also cannot travel through time.
Also, dragons are not heralds of the coming dark age and the power of chaos. They are also not keepers of the last knowledge. They also cannot take the form of other creatures. They also do not use telekinesis...
Also, dragons are not the progenitors and guardians of all elements.
Of course...

Hmm, and who are these Dragons of Pern?

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Центавр

17 years ago

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By the way, if you compare sci-fi and fantasy, different elements are found in different settings. For example, the Force of the Jedi is very similar to magic (by the way, also the Light and Dark sides). In Dune, there was also magic - in the old version, there were even witches. As for modernized medieval settings, a good example is the book "A Time for Dragons," where magic and swords are combined with electric door locks, steam trains, and "The Gnome's Path," which turns out to be a railway, and a dragon created as a kind of robot.

Тому, кто сражается с монстрами, нужно сильно постараться, чтобы самому не превратиться в монстра.
Клан "Вершители Асхана" - "Masters of Ashan"

Amko

17 years ago

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Dune also featured a form of magic.

However, there wasn't a direct equivalent to fantasy magic. The "Bene Gesserit Witches" were simply referred to as such due to a certain fear/distrust of their abilities and, frankly, a lack of understanding of those abilities.