Tactics for the Swamp (Fortress). — Tactics — Page 25

Registered: 7/13/2008

Posts: 1,916

#369 10/14/2008 2:17 PM UTC

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SEM_56 (red, Castle, Valiska, Valiska) def Oelm (blue, Swamp, Tazar, Tazar) 2sm4d(3) 125
Valiska arrived with 3 stacks, let's play. The lands are small, there's not much gold, and not much wood either. I spotted two Goblin Towns, but they are both maxed out. I reveal the map and see the opponent's Castle, as well as a path to my secondary town, but it's guarded by a horde of Archers...
On day 116, I attack a level 32 Gnome and take the Barbarian secondary town, then head towards the Gnome town...
On day 123, the opponent appears near the Barbarians. As it turns out, there was a portal in the corner. He attacks my 2 Scouts and is about to leave, but I position Kirra with the Barbarian army to intercept him. The opponent kills Kirra and approaches the Citadel, where Valiska is already stationed. He saw how many Archers (56) there were and decided not to attack. On the next turn, Valiska receives 10 Crusaders and attacks...
Tazar has 7 defense, 2 Hydras, 2 Vipers, 23 Lizards, 28 Gnolls, and 4 Dragonflies...
Valiska has 6 attack and defense, 56 Archers, 40 Spearmen, 10 Crusaders, and +10+1+1 Kent...
The opponent made a couple of mistakes, and paid the price. The Archers immediately shot down the Hydras, the Crusaders killed the Vipers, the opponent surrendered and decided not to continue. Thanks for the game!!!

Here's that game, with 3 stacks. On day 121, the hero received 7 Archers. 28 Griffins - a specialist in Griffins arrived +5, etc.

Ушел с героев, пока пряники)

Registered: 12/30/2007

Posts: 1,083

#370 10/14/2008 2:24 PM UTC

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Tazara's army – 30 gr of lizards, 14 gr of flies, 46 gnolls, 4 vivas, 8 simple basilisks, and 2 hydras.
Valeska’s army – 56 gr of marksmen, 60 pikemen, 12 crusaders, 28 griffins, and 12 centaurs.
No books.

He just copied these armies almost exactly from his first (or at most second) online game.

Here is the link:
/topic/at/200495/

Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in message

In reply to Loi

Registered: 4/29/2007

Posts: 11,032

#371 10/14/2008 4:03 PM UTC

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Enough talk! Let's see the battle replay!

In reply to Dirty_Player

Registered: 9/26/2008

Posts: 2,556

#372 10/14/2008 5:03 PM UTC

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I apologize for my comment, but I didn't think people would take things so seriously here. I was just writing in the heat of the moment. As for the game: a game is a game, and I lost fair and square. But! I wanted to share my theoretical analysis of the balance of power between the Fortress and the Hive in the second week. To be honest, after reading Forrest's post, I thought the balance of power between the Fortress and the Hive in the second week would favor the Fortress, so I just made a rough estimate without testing it. In the actual game, it turned out that there was no way I could win with the Fortress under those conditions. And my opponent didn't even build any cavalry. There were 21 Griffins, not 28 (there was a mistake in the post). So: I couldn't find a way to counter a Fortress hero of approximately the same level as mine, playing as the Hive in the second week. In general, you can't improve your game just by reading posts. And I've tested many tactics, battle models, and other things in games against the computer, and sometimes against other players. Therefore, the natural conclusion is: I wasn't accusing, by the way, the player I respect, of my OWN defeat in the game in question, as some people here seem to think.

Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in message

2. Don't play as the Hive!

Or maybe don't play Heroes at all?

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Registered: 10/22/2007

Posts: 2,259

#373 10/14/2008 5:13 PM UTC

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Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message

Someone is sharing insightful stories from their experience, which, I have no doubt, they could repeat in practice 9 out of 10 times (and that's only because of the morality of neutral factions, not because of incorrect calculations).

Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message

P.S. Hi Tol, by the way :)

Всё будет хорошо!!! Только неизвестно когда... НО ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО БУДЕТ!!!
Но!...
Слушай всех, прислушивайся к немногим, решай сам...

Registered: 12/21/2007

Posts: 804

#380 10/14/2008 7:13 PM UTC

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And once again, returning to the topic of communication etiquette on the forum...

If each of the losing or dissatisfied players expresses their dissatisfaction or unfounded suspicions in posts, accuses others, and (most unacceptable of all!) allows themselves to use profanity, then this forum will not last long...
Before writing something that might offend the person being discussed or any of the readers, think several times! What if you are wrong? After all, by casting a shadow of suspicion or dissatisfaction on a particular person, you attract the attention of a large number of forum members, and this case becomes a matter of public concern. It's a different matter if there is direct evidence of the accused's wrongdoing. In such cases, it is necessary to first inform the forum administrators (moderators), who will decide the fate of the incident. And it is within their authority to make this public or to hush it up without announcement.
Please pay attention! None of the veterans of this forum allow themselves to engage in unworthy communication; on the contrary, they all thank their opponent for the game and for the time spent. Many discuss the game in private and also in a friendly manner!
And, indeed, the newcomers (OF COURSE, THIS ONLY APPLIES TO A FEW) to our forum most often introduce confusion or negativity.
Let's respect each other and not waste time on pointless arguments and settling scores. Let's just play and get the most enjoyment out of it!!!!!! :smile54:
________________________________________________________
The above is written in a positive and persuasive manner, with the hope that everyone will accept the appropriate communication standards!!!!!

Registered: 10/22/2007

Posts: 2,259

#382 10/14/2008 7:37 PM UTC

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Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message

Let's play Heroes and remember those who taught us how to play!

Join the battle! But let it be a fair one! Playing against Tolya is almost pointless, but I promise interesting matches for many other players!

Всё будет хорошо!!! Только неизвестно когда... НО ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО БУДЕТ!!!
Но!...
Слушай всех, прислушивайся к немногим, решай сам...

Registered: 12/30/2007

Posts: 1,083

#384 10/14/2008 8:06 PM UTC

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Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message

We all want to be taught, to have experience shared with us – generously and sincerely. We are only asked to protect our Teachers from rudeness and impudence, and to do so immediately and decisively, preferably together – even if it means getting a little dirty and receiving some dirt in return.
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I definitely don't think my actions were pointless and I'm sure it wasn't in vain.
As a third-generation teacher myself, I know how important it is that your advice is valued and that people have some respect for you. It's not much, but it's not insignificant either...

In reply to Loi

Registered: 10/13/2008

Posts: 1,150

#385 10/14/2008 9:06 PM UTC

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Here's an interesting idea: has anyone tried using the Hydra combined with the Expert Teleport spell during sieges? That would probably be quite a surprise for the opponent.

Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:

Registered: 6/30/2008

Posts: 11,764

#386 10/15/2008 10:47 AM UTC

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It's interesting: has anyone tried the Hydra + Expert Teleport combination for assaults? It would probably be a surprise for the opponent.

Of course, it's a great combination, but to teleport through a city wall, you need an Expert Water creature, and that's not easy to get...

If Hydras are built in a fortress, Tazar will lose to Valesk on the second week on neutral ground!

You're making a big claim, oelm... In Heroes, of course, a lot depends on random factors (successful map generation, heroes appearing in the tavern, etc.), but also on gaming experience. It's not a given that if you were playing as Valesk and your opponent was playing as Tazar, you would win...

In this context, I'd like to quote a couple of things from heroes.by

Remember that people are quite sensitive creatures, and their sense of humor doesn't always match yours.

And here's a little more about respect...

This guy is definitely a cheater!

Look at it. Would you go there in his place? You could only go there if you knew in advance that there was a Utopia (creature generator, artifact, Pandora's Box) - underline the necessary one.
If you have thoughts like this, I sincerely advise you to wait before publishing them. First, these are just suspicions. Second, Heroes is a very competitive game. A losing player rarely can evaluate the game without excessive emotions.
As practice shows, most doubts arise from... differences in play style. Just because you would act in a certain way in your opponent's place doesn't mean that Vasya or Petya will do the same, even if you acted logically and rationally.
People often make mistakes that later turn out to be beneficial for them. But even if the judge or third parties who reviewed the save file didn't convince you, don't rush to publicly declare what a scoundrel your opponent is. I repeat, we are talking about your doubts. That is, we are considering a case where there is no direct evidence. And therefore, the presumption of innocence comes into play - unproven doubts are always interpreted in favor of the accused.

...When I first started playing online, there were a lot of emotions, and, to be honest, I almost fell for it once, just like oelm... I started accusing a respected person of cheating due to a lack of experience. And it was all very simple - when an opponent transfers an army from one hero to another, it doesn't show up for you!.. So I thought - a novice is playing against me, a master, and he got scared and disconnected his internet connection:) So I started attacking him - saying he was cheating, you scoundrel!.. Only later did I realize that the hero had a 3-week castle growth bonus, and the transfer just didn't display... in short, I messed up :rolleyes: And it wasn't a novice at all (and I'm not a master:D), but I offended a person...
Unfortunately, I read the quoted text ("This guy is definitely a cheater!") after the game...

In short, we should all treat each other with mutual respect! So that there are no unjustified accusations, and the game brings pleasure, not offense!

Added after 43 minutes
2loi - the realization came to me too)

За всем следят машины благодати и любви.

In reply to WhiteLizard

Registered: 10/13/2008

Posts: 1,150

#387 10/15/2008 1:29 PM UTC

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I understand, of course, that you need a water magic expert to teleport through a castle wall, but why is this skill so bad? Magic of any element is useful in its own way, and water is definitely not the worst of them! Just look at Blessing, Clone, Prayer, and even Teleport! I think it's worth taking water magic just for these spells, and if you have fast "mercenary" aliens in your army (like phoenixes) that can quickly neutralize (weaken) enemy "aviation," you can even prefer water magic over earth (with its slowing and resurrection).

Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:

Registered: 6/30/2008

Posts: 11,764

#388 10/15/2008 2:40 PM UTC

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I agree, my favorite magic is water, but I thought we were discussing the game here :)
It's not a given that:
a) you'll get water magic in the game
b) you'll be able to level it up to expert
c) the spell might not even appear in the guild!

But overall, it's a very good tactic - even just having teleport allows you to annoy your opponent in a normal battle by eating up 2 stacks of archers at once)

And you're talking about phoenixes - you can't build them at all according to the rules! By the way, having "foreign" units in your army will take away your bonus for native land, so it's better not to bring too many along on a walk through the swamp :)

За всем следят машины благодати и любви.

Registered: 3/18/2008

Posts: 3,093

#389 10/16/2008 6:58 PM UTC

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I didn't manage to read everything, but here are a couple of my thoughts:
In random maps, the Swamp Castle always rules, even if only for its native creatures like the Vile Vine and the Tank, and many other things have been mentioned, but:
there was a golden age when we used to spar in the dorm only on fixed maps - Loyalty, All for One, Reality Chaos, and others... we played with random heroes, and when we got the Swamp Castle, we had trouble choosing a hero because the ranged units in those conditions were simply terrible. In a situation where you need to fight for 5 days and take the main artifact from under level 6 monsters, or take hidden treasures on day 3, 5, 6, or 7, they performed very poorly - their offensive power was weak, and the gradual loss of weaker units led to a weakening of the army, a loss of momentum, and a loss at the finish... In comparison, the Barbarian Castle with its heroes looked much better, not to mention the Castle and Rampart... In short, discussions about whether the Swamp Castle or the Barbarians are better should only take place in each specific case.

P.S. I didn't like the hero "Taz", just because I didn't like his face, and now I dislike him even more after reading the reports - the Swamp Castle means Taz... it's boring, guys, I would vote with both hands for a random hero at the start - how many new characters would appear in the reports...

Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.

In reply to Javdet

Registered: 11/21/2007

Posts: 498

#390 10/16/2008 7:17 PM UTC

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Javdet;200963

- a swamp means Taz... boring, guys...

Now, few people play as Taz in swamps. Mostly, they play as Brokhild. Also, Wistan, Alkin, and Taz himself.

РП (Реальное папство!)
*Автосейвы не беру и не даю.

Скачать WT (Чат, античит, одновременный ход) http://www.heroeswt.net/download.php

Награда Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за Оплот

In reply to Forrest

Registered: 3/18/2008

Posts: 3,093

#391 10/16/2008 7:59 PM UTC

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Forrest;200969

Nowadays, not many people play as Tazor in the swamp. Mostly, they play as Brokhild. Also, Wistan, Alkin, and Tazor himself.

I agree, but this applies to the Bay, while on SOD, Tazor has no alternative:rolleyes:. I'm gradually getting disappointed with Brokhild; the variance in stats is too large – from 7 to full....

Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.

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