Fantasy vs. Science Fiction — Books

kj1313

10/5/2008 6:10 AM UTC

Auto-translated

I voted for Fantasy; I love it... And I wouldn't say that any of them are limited; I'd put it another way: Fantasy offers more freedom (definitely not limited to mutations and space)... And, honestly, there's no fantasy better than "The Lord of the Rings." But, of course, that's just my personal opinion...

Всадник СМЕРТИ
- Смерть - судьба всех и каждого.

Очень Хаотичный Лидер Клана "Рыцари апокалипсиса"

Amko

10/5/2008 6:50 AM UTC

Auto-translated

If we're talking about Star Wars, it's a mix of science fiction and fantasy, and there are quite a few fantasy elements in it.

Правила форума
FAQ по Heroes VI
Форумная мафия

[readonly]

Loken

10/5/2008 9:06 AM UTC

Auto-translated

this:

-shooters and action games. what a huge difference, right, Moni?:)

-Star Wars. among the fantasy elements, you can only vaguely mention Jedi magic, and that's it. and the word "knight" in context, yeah?

-Terry Pratchett. I didn't write at the beginning of the topic for nothing that there is almost no truly original and unique fantasy, with rare exceptions, to which I also include Terry.

-the world of sci-fi is not limited, because for fantasy to be fantasy, numerous clichés such as magic and dwarves must be present. otherwise, it won't be fantasy. for example, tales about Ivan Tsarevich. this is not fantasy:) this is just a fairy tale.
sci-fi can only be burdened by high technology. this fact follows from the name, doesn't it? otherwise, it's an unrestrained flight of fantasy and/or delirium. mutations, kosmos, aliens, mercenaries, corporations, wars, intrigues, empires, spice, Clans, barbarism, robots, time machines, parallel universes, demons-bursting-out-of-hell, cultists, evil geniuses, steel-rats.... as you can see, there are many more plot options than in the competing genre.
besides, I haven't seen almost any fantasy book (except, again, Terry) where the story is about an ordinary person who has achieved something, and not about the owner of a super-sword or magic, or the dark elf Drizzt.

-Warhammer 50/50. Fantasy Battles Warhammer - it's 100 to zero, and the 40k setting is difficult to classify.

-

THE STAINLESS STEEL RAT SINGS THE BLUES - 1994
THE GOLDEN YEARS OF THE STAINLESS STEEL RAT - 1994
THE STAINLESS STEEL RAT GOES TO HELL - 1996
STAINLESS STEEL RAT JOINS THE CIRCUS - 1998

are you trying to show me that the genre was born a long time ago in the nineties? I can't find the clichés you listed in these books;)
but here is "Totalitarian Clisant" - 1970, note.

-

See, not everyone picked it up. They also churn out sci-fi in the same way. How many shooters and other games are made in the sci-fi style?
Of course, RPGs are often made in the fantasy style... but there are not many more of them. 50/50

I wouldn't say so. a huge part of shooters are shooters about World War II, and anti-terrorist shooters. and the main part of RPGs, I would say... about seventy percent - these are all swords and bows.
so...:)

Первый, кто был забанен за Правду.

ewgeniy

10/5/2008 9:31 AM UTC

Auto-translated

cool :)
undoubtedly, science fiction is better – there is no magic there, and almost everything in the books of science fiction writers is gradually coming true...
fantasy can also be good, but their linearity is annoying.

Клан"Homo Homini":smile19: Полезные ссылки:smile01:

В. Уэйтс©

Но поскольку я нищий,
у меня лишь есть мечты.
Я разостлал свои мечты пред вашими ногами.
Ступайте бережно, ибо вы ступаете по моим мечтам.

временно ушел с форума, переодически заглядываю. кому нужен пишите в скайп ewgeniy1985. в аське 384385000 очень редко.

kcfgogbfalgfl

10/5/2008 9:42 AM UTC

Auto-translated

[/U]

-shooters and action games. What a huge difference, right, Moni?

There is a difference. In most action games, the view is from behind the character, or from a third-person perspective.
For example, Jedi Knight is more of an action game than a shooter. And WOW (I haven't played it, but I understand what it's about) is an action RPG, but definitely not a shooter.

And as for sci-fi, it doesn't necessarily have to be set in space. For example, Terminator :D

P.S.: Cyborgs will tear elves apart xD
The Death Star will destroy Mordor XD

And what about a war between fantasy and sci-fi? It would be cool to watch orcs with axes trying to kill cyborgs with lasers and miniguns XD. Or a king of elves fighting an Emperor XD.

Стартовый пост - Квенты - Разное -
Резара - Аксель - Орвальд - Эмилия -

eXeCuToR

10/5/2008 11:32 AM UTC

Auto-translated

The Lord of the Rings isn't the best fantasy in the world. It's just the first, and for that reason alone, it deserves respect. But then there were better books.
By the way, about RPGs. One of the greatest RPGs in the world. Remember? That's right! It's him! The magnificent Fallout! I think it has more fans than KOTOR, and that's sci-fi.
Lock, firstly, there might not be dwarves, and secondly, there might not be magic. I read a fantasy work that was quite good. By the way, of all the things you listed that could be in the sci-fi genre, you also named a cliché that appears in many books of that genre.
Haven't seen such books?)) Read George R.R. Martin (A Song of Ice and Fire) or Dave Duncan (The Man of Words). The cycles I recommend are in parentheses.

Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

In reply to kcfgogbfalgfl

Wistrit

10/5/2008 11:34 AM UTC

Auto-translated

Fairy tales are a branch of fantasy. Ivan Tsarevich actively used magic, talked to werewolves, and so on...
So, there's no need to try and mislead me here! :)\br\brFantasy can consist entirely of humans. It's not necessary for these clichés to be present in fantasy; it's those who actively churn it out and make money from it who insist on them.
I'm too lazy to list... "plot development options."
But if you insist:

mutations, kosmos, aliens, mercenaries, corporations, wars, intrigues, empires, spice, Clans, barbarism, robots, time machines, parallel universes, demons-bursting-out-of-hell, cultists, evil geniuses, steel-rats

There are analogs of all of this in fantasy. :p
demons-bursting-out-of-hell - ??? awesome sci-fi :) it must have been borrowed ;)

rather than a super-sword owner or a mage, or the dark elf Drizzt.

And what's so special about Drizzt? He's a good warrior, and he achieved it himself:smile49: He doesn't have any overpowered artifacts. Blades?... what are you talking about? :)\br\bryes, 40000 doesn't count.<br\brthe stainless steel rat sings the blues ->
Some corporation sends mercenaries to another planet because there is supposedly an artifact left by Alien Civilizations. There is a war on the planet.
:smile28:<br\bri mean that shooters are mostly sci-fi. and rpgs are fantasy. therefore: 50% sci-fi, 50% fantasy. :)\figure>

Cyborgs will tear elves apart xD
The Death Star will destroy Mordor Х)

Don't make me laugh, dragons!:D
The dumbest of mage apprentices will obliterate your cyborgs with a single cast of Rust.
MORDOR? Death Star?
"I'm just a simple guy, okay?"
Of course, some pathetic thing will tear apart the Fortress of whoever dared to encroach on all of creation, yes, you are absolutely right. :)\figure>

it would be cool to watch orcs with axes trying to kill cyborgs with lasers and miniguns

What's the point? It's much better to barricade yourself in a gorge and, sacrificing goblins, blast cyborgs with lightning from the heavens.
P.S. And what, besides cyborgs, is there?...

Tomorrow holds no promises
Except the ones we've made

In reply to Wistrit

Zybr

10/5/2008 12:53 PM UTC

Auto-translated

Hmm... but why even compare these two, which are essentially different genres?
To put it simply, if you like swords, bows, and magic, then fantasy is for you, and if you like spacesuits and blaster rifles, then sci-fi is for you.

In general, both can be either interesting or boring, either childish or "adult," and this has nothing to do with the genre. In both, you can come up with any plots and world/worlds, it all depends only on the author's imagination, and you shouldn't think that just because fantasy usually features magic and dragons and unicorns, it's necessarily a fairy tale.

In general, I like fantasy, although I've read some things from both genres, but somehow the first one appealed to me more... probably because I like swords, bows, and cute elves:D

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

XEL

10/5/2008 1:20 PM UTC

Auto-translated

The most common stereotype is that "nothing can surpass the fantasy of The Lord of the Rings," but in my opinion, that's nonsense. In essence, there's nothing particularly outstanding about the history of Arda.

Arandor

10/5/2008 1:45 PM UTC

Auto-translated

Ha, why does fantasy necessarily have to include dwarves, magic, and so on? I know books that don't have such races; they only have humans (different nations) and monster-like creatures that don't repeat in other works (although they might be somewhat similar to those we've known for a long time)! "Mutations, mercenaries, corporations, wars, intrigues, empires, Clans, barbarism, parallel universes, demons bursting out of hell, sects, evil geniuses." This could definitely be in a fantasy setting; the main thing is how it's presented. Mutations can be caused by magical experiments, curses, and so on. Mercenaries, Clans, wars, intrigues, empires, barbarism, sects, evil geniuses (mages), and demons also exist. Instead of parallel universes, you could have other planes or other realities created with magic (not on a huge scale, but the size of a town). Also, the world can be connected to technology created by dwarves (think of Arcanum). And all of this can be put into one world... the main thing is you need IMAGINATION! As for templates... hehe... these aren't templates, but rather the elements that immediately come to mind when mentioning these genres, but they don't have to be in every work of that genre. P.S. I agree about Fallout... the best sci-fi... the only one I like. P.P.S. By the way, you could also take the idea of a "dead" world from there... like there was a catastrophe, and the survivors are fighting for dominance. P.P.P.S. And you could also do something with the plot I told Lok about... brother, sister, etc. I wanted to make a map for Heroes out of it, but I don't know if it will work. Maybe I'll "throw" it somewhere later.

Be strong. Believe

KonServator

10/5/2008 2:21 PM UTC

Auto-translated

Reading the discussions in this thread, I'm completely confused about what constitutes Fantasy and what constitutes Science Fiction. Here's a breakdown:

Fantasy (from English "fantasy") is a genre of fantastic literature based on the use of mythological and fairy-tale motifs. In its modern form, it took shape in the early 20th century. Fantasy works most often resemble historical adventure novels, set in a fictional world close to the real Middle Ages, where the characters encounter supernatural phenomena and creatures. Fantasy is often based on archetypal plots. Unlike science fiction, fantasy does not seek to explain the world in which the story takes place from a scientific point of view. This world exists as a kind of assumption (most often, its location relative to our reality is not specified at all: either it is a parallel world or another planet), and its physical laws differ from the realities of our world. In such a world, the existence of gods, magic, mythical creatures (dragons, gnomes, trolls), ghosts, and any other fantastic entities can be real. At the same time, the fundamental difference between the "miracles" of fantasy and their fairy-tale counterparts is that they are the norm of the described world and operate systematically, like the laws of nature. Today, fantasy is also a genre in cinema, painting, computer games, and board games. This genre universality is especially characteristic of Chinese fantasy with elements of Eastern martial arts.

And here's science fiction:

Science fiction (SF) (from Greek "phantastike" - the art of imagining) is a genre in literature and cinema where events take place in a world that differs from modern or historical reality in at least one significant way. The difference can be technological, physical, historical, sociological, etc., but not magical.

In general, I think the line between science fiction and fantasy is very thin. I like both equally. In fact, I've watched more movies of these genres than I've read books. I can't say for sure which I like more: "The Matrix"/"War of the Worlds"/"Star Wars" or "The Lord of the Rings"/"Harry Potter".

SandroXXL

10/6/2008 3:42 AM UTC

Auto-translated

So what’s wrong with that, if these are the cornerstones of any fantasy, if the genre itself implies it? If we encountered something like that, say, in the novels of Leo Tolstoy, then there would be a reason for concern. And besides, it’s more interesting to watch a war than to observe the development of peaceful life.

Просто еще один

Alan

10/6/2008 4:48 AM UTC

Auto-translated

+1 to eXeCuToR's post, especially about Faul and Martin. Read and learn how different fantasy can be. Then, read Roger Zelazny and see how much depends on the author and how the same person, who simply knows how to create non-trivial plots, performs them equally brilliantly in fantasy and sci-fi.

Quote:
It would be cool to watch orcs with axes trying to kill cyborgs with lasers and miniguns.
Why bother? It's much better to barricade yourself in a canyon and, with the help of sky daughters, sacrifice goblins to blast cyborgs with lightning.
P.S. And what, are there no one else besides cyborgs?

Or, it's much easier to play Warhammer 40k and find out what, how, and who... whether with swords, magic, or weapons.

THE STAINLESS STEEL RAT SINGS THE BLUES - 1994
A certain corporation sends mercenaries to another planet because there is supposedly an artifact left by alien civilizations. There is a war on the planet.

If you twist everything written in this book like that, you can adapt any book to fit your needs... It's better to read it more carefully and understand that it is, to some extent, a parody that should contain clichés and even in a vivid form. Well, and still, even with such an attitude, it's impossible to use such concepts (although the word "war" is not very applicable to a prison planet).

P.S. It's better not to argue about what is better (especially considering that many authors write both here and there), and really read good books and enjoy them, instead of using cliché-ridden works.

Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.

Loken

10/6/2008 5:10 AM UTC

Auto-translated

A fairy tale is a branch of fantasy. Ivan Tsarevich actively used magic, talked to werewolves, and so on...

give it a rest?) fairy tales of different peoples appeared a long time ago.
so don't try to mislead us.

demons bursting out of hell - ??? awesome NF, it must have been copied.

and I knew it would sound funny, I just remembered Doom and added it to the mix;)

And what's so special about Drizzt? He's a good warrior, he achieved it himself. He doesn't have any overpowered artifacts. Blades?... what's so funny?

you're being politically correct, but it doesn't match the original))
he is a Magnificent Dark Elf who tears everyone to pieces and stands proudly, head bowed. that is, a typical fantasy hero.

THE STAINLESS STEEL RAT SINGS THE BLUES - 1994
Some corporation sends mercenaries to another planet because there is supposedly an artifact left by alien civilizations. There is a war on the planet.

as I understand it, you didn't read it, but just downloaded information from Wikipedia or something? mistake!
there is no war there, unless you consider the real guys working out their skills with mobile phones and other gadgets to be a war; it's not a corporation, but the government, not mercenaries, but military personnel, not an artifact, but an artifact:), not supposedly, but definitely.
(X:X+1) in my favor:D

Your cyborgs will be taken out by the dumbest of the wizard apprentices, with just one cast of Rust.

by the way, I've always been amused by the stupid wizards in Rowling's creation, who have to hide and disguise themselves so as not to be destroyed at the moment. it's the 21st century, and they still use torches, fly on brooms, and defecate in a hole in the floor. asceticism, yeah.
one artillery barrage, or one bombing raid - goodbye, school of magic, goodbye, world-conquering enemy Voldemort, goodbye, kind demigod and director Dumbledore, goodbye, Ministry of Magic, goodbye, all.
and no problems:)
but instead: cemeteries, dark magic, magic wands... it's laughable.
by the way, Harry Potter is a fairy tale. that's what they officially said. and not fantasy.

Emm... why even compare these two, which are essentially different genres?

well, it's fun, and it gives you something to do instead of just staring at slowly updating pages.

ps WisTrit, besides cyborgs, of course, there are many others, but the oracle predicted them, so let's not deviate from the canon.

Added 2 minutes ago

It's much easier to play Warhammer 40k and find out what, how, and who... whether with swords, magic, or weapons.

ee... let's just say - read it. because it's not just about DoW, and only a small number of people know about the tabletop game.

Первый, кто был забанен за Правду.

In reply to Loken

Wistrit

10/6/2008 5:51 AM UTC

Auto-translated

In my opinion, in almost all fantasy stories, there is a main hero and a main villain.

You really made me think about my answer :)
And almost every car has wheels! Almost every bird has wings! How is that possible? :(

(give some?) fairy tales of different peoples appeared a long time ago.
so don't try to mislead us.

I'll give you some... just a little, you have plenty of your own :)
Of course, they appeared a long time ago, consider it the first fantasy :)
... and it's not a fact that fantasy stories weren't written before. They just weren't called "fantasy."
It's not a fact :)

you're calling it politically correct, but it doesn't match the original))
he is a Magnificent-Dark-Elf-tearing-everyone-to-pieces-and-standing-proudly-with-his-head-bowed. that is, a typical fantasy hero.

Yeah, it doesn't quite match :) but unfortunately, this is Russia... let's call him Drizzt.
By the way, the name sounds beautiful in English when reproduced exactly.
ALL main heroes tear everyone apart (regardless of the genre). And he doesn't always tear everyone apart. And he doesn't stand proudly. Rather, he stands thoughtfully. And that's only in the pictures.
And who else tears everyone to pieces?

as I understand it, you didn't read this, but just downloaded information from a wiki or something? mistake!
there's no war there, unless, of course, you consider using mobile phones and other gadgets by real guys to be a war; it's not a corporation, but a government, not mercenaries, but military personnel, not an artifact, but an artifact, not presumably, but definitely.
(X:X+1) in my favor

Heh!.. you're dreaming...
I only use wikis or something in those very rare cases when I'm given words like "vasectomy" :) I just didn't know what it was :)
Oh, damn... :o I got it slightly wrong :D yeah, everyone makes mistakes... :D I confused it with the planet where Rat and Elephant threw Zenor :)
Okay, there's no war :)
But the government is essentially... a corporation. Not much less.
Essentially, they are no different from mercenaries.
I wonder if someone has already stolen it from there :)
=x_x= are we keeping score? Maybe we should create a table in the first post? :) but you still haven't earned any points ;)

by the way, I've always been amused by the stupid wizards in Rowling's creation.

I didn't like Potter at first either :) because of its popularity and, on the one hand, the stupid idea of making money out of nothing.
But then I read it, and I actually liked it :) it's quite a good thing.
These stupid wizards haven't been found yet, by the way. :)
Using torches and other things, they mock people very cruelly. :) the age of nanotechnology! The Internet! Nuclear weapons! Soon, according to plans, Skynet will awaken!
And these idiots send owls with letters and fly on brooms...:smile04:
In my opinion, it's hard to come up with a better parody :)

besides cyborgs, of course, there are many others, but Vanga predicted them, so let's not deviate from the canon.

Indeed, we shouldn't deviate from the canon.
Let's leave everything as it is :) the canyon, cyborgs against the daughters of the sky :)

P.S. There are 19 of these emoticons in this post :) including this one.

Tomorrow holds no promises
Except the ones we've made