Changes to the rules for offline Heroes 3 tournaments! — Tournament history (offline)

In reply to AlexSpl

AmberSoler

10/2/2008 7:27 AM UTC

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AlexSpl;198311

Learning to stop noticing morality is like quitting smoking...

Excellent analogy! :)

AlexSpl;198311

If we make a second attempt (reload), taking into account the first attempt, the probability will increase to 23.4%! It's like taking two shots at a target instead of one!

If we interpret it that way, then you are absolutely right. Offline play increases the probability of any desired event to almost 100%, you just need time. This was essentially the trick that hardcore players used very effectively. In that case, could all probabilistic events in the game be made strictly deterministic? I'm not against chess... It's just that the path ahead seems very narrow, and we might fall down...

AlexSpl;198311

By the way, the probabilities for "immorality" are: 1/12 (-1), 2/12 (-2), and 3/12 (-3). It seems that your manual has different values. And also, please review the article about the Admiral's Hat :)

If you have time, I would be grateful if you could explain it in more detail in a private message!

Сначала было слово...
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In reply to AmberSoler

Dirty_Player

10/2/2008 1:39 PM UTC

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AmberSoler;198402

If you have some time, please elaborate in a private message, I would appreciate it!

Yes, that works too :)
After all, everyone knows that negative morale triggers twice as often as positive morale!

Judging by the voting, it seems we will be playing on the patch. But regardless of that, I suggest, or rather insist, on adding the following point:

It is forbidden to use the Admiral's Hat in a combined build!!!!!!!

Who is in favor?

In reply to Dirty_Player

Kyle

10/2/2008 1:46 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player;198433

Using the Admiral's Hat in combination with other items is prohibited!!!!!!!

Hmm... well... :)

1.4. Restrictions on completing a saved game:
Using any cheats or bugs in a clean playthrough is prohibited! The result will be immediately annulled. Therefore, the following is prohibited:
.....
1.4.12. Using navigation bonuses on land (for reference: by repeatedly boarding and disembarking from a boat while using the "Admiral's Hat" artifact, it is possible to obtain navigation bonuses, which is prohibited. Using this artifact is allowed if the main goal is to cross a water barrier, which is necessary for the player to perform specific actions).

In reply to Dirty_Player

AmberSoler

10/2/2008 2:47 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player;198433

It is forbidden to use the Admiral's Hat in a combined manner!

It's still better to simply limit its use, as it is often simply necessary for its intended purpose. But it is understandable that this raises the possibility of speculation. Perhaps it would be better not to leave it on the map at all?

Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler

Dirty_Player

10/2/2008 3:19 PM UTC

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AmberSoler;198448

Still, it's better to simply limit its use, as it is often simply necessary for its intended purpose. But it's clear that this raises the possibility of speculation. Maybe it's better not to leave it on the map at all?

Exactly!! It's understandable that it's better not to allow it to appear on the map, but who knows, the organizer might miss it, or it might drop from a merchant... that's why I suggest BANNING it!!!
For example, a situation: there are many resources on the shore. I get out of the ship, take one, go back in, think for a long time, and go out again, take the second, and so on.... And if the game lasts 30 days, it's simply impossible to track!! Therefore, I suggest such a radical solution!!!! Let everyone express their opinion!

Kamikaze

10/2/2008 6:24 PM UTC

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I agree with banning the hat... if it will actually change anything, of course. Because, as always, there will be a debate about whether the hat was used for its intended purpose. To prevent this, you could ban the cap as well...
PS I just don't know how to use it:smile43:

Индивидуальный и клановый рейтинги Heroes World
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In reply to Kamikaze

Dirty_Player

10/2/2008 7:09 PM UTC

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Since we're already on this topic, here's another suggestion to add to the list! **I propose officially allowing the dismissal of a hero who is stationed in a castle.** Some people think it's a bug, while others think it's not... Let's clarify!

In reply to Dirty_Player

vbn

10/2/2008 8:12 PM UTC

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I see no obstacles to making 2 changes to the general rules for offline tournaments on HeroesWorld (regarding the ban on the Admiral's Hat and allowing the dismissal of a hero located in a castle).

Thus, after clarifying questions regarding the "Morale and Luck" patch, regarding the exclusion of the 3rd victory criterion in a tournament as decisive, regarding the calculation of the sum of primary stats (before or after the final battle) and whether artifacts are included or not, the following points will be included in the new edition of the rules:

1.4.12. It is forbidden to use the assembled artifact "Admiral's Hat" (it may be used in disassembled form). For reference: by repeatedly boarding and disembarking from a boat using the "Admiral's Hat" artifact, it is possible to obtain navigation bonuses. The organizer may, at their discretion, allow the use of the assembled "Admiral's Hat" artifact by specifying this as a separate point in the rules of a specific tournament. In this case, the organizer must also indicate whether this artifact can be used without restrictions or only in certain cases (for example, allowing its use only when the main goal is to cross a water barrier necessary for specific player actions, rather than obtaining navigation bonuses on land).

1.5.6. It is permitted to dismiss heroes located in a castle via the "Kingdom Overview" -> "Show Towns" menu.

Something else I want to add. The General tournament rules are advisory in many points, and therefore, whether or not the 3rd victory criterion is banned, the organizer of a specific tournament will always reserve the right to include the accounting of the 3rd or more criteria in their tournament or not, or leave only 2 (or even 1). I see no fundamental importance in how this point is reflected in the General rules. Well, let's set 2 criteria... It makes no difference... And in general, nowhere in the rules is it written how many criteria should be used in tournaments. The organizer decides for themselves. Only the following point can be added to the rules (as a tip for the organizer):

It is strongly recommended to use N victory criteria as decisive <explain why>.

Although I would probably add the following:

As a rule, the winner of tournaments on HeroesWorld is determined using 3 victory criteria. Tournament organizers are requested to take this nuance into account when forming victory criteria. For reference: likely, on some tournament maps, 3 or more victory criteria will be redundant and should not be introduced. For example, in a tournament for collecting the maximum number of skeletons over 3 weeks with the 2nd decisive victory criterion being the amount of gold in the treasury - a 3rd criterion here is clearly redundant, as the probability of two participants repeating the result in such a case is negligible.

Calculation of the sum of primary stats (before or after the final battle) and whether artifacts are included or not: after the final battle including artifacts. It has always been this way on HeroesWorld, and no one had any objections, nor have any arisen. Therefore, we are introducing this point so that no more questions arise. Regarding the recently concluded tournament on the patch - there, stats were calculated BEFORE the final battle. Dirty_Player convinced me to do it this way, arguing that after the final battle a hero may receive different amounts of experience and consequently the number of levels raised by the hero after the battle may differ, and therefore, the final stats of the hero. A player might have one set of hero stats after the battle, while if the battle is conducted by the organizer - they would be different. Well, the issue is not that fundamental, does not arise that often, and it is not so difficult for the organizer and player to coordinate it via private correspondence. In general, I don't know... Let's decide... Although there is nothing to decide here. Let's decide on the patch, but everything else seems already clear. ;)

Клан Homo homini

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...

In reply to AmberSoler

DmitriyAS

10/3/2008 12:17 AM UTC

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Reflections on the topic…

I’ll try to approach it from a different angle. Is the problem with morale/luck really a problem in the sense that some players who occasionally play and occasionally think try to present it? Let’s recall the maps on which tournaments were held this year. Let’s recall the battles in which morale or (and) luck were a decisive factor for victory. At most, there will be 10 of them. In the rest, neither the leading tournaments nor the players had any questions or doubts, and will never have them. So, what is the essence of the problem? In asking the organizer in private about the possibility/impossibility of using morale/luck in the amount necessary to win each of these conditional number of battles (again, at most 10). The number 50 (the number of attempts to repeat the battle) is introduced only so as not to bother the organizer with trivial matters and not to bother myself. I can fully trust any current organizer and any organizer who has stepped away from the affairs on HW (who, by the way, are also experienced players) in this matter (as I trust myself) and leave the decision on the legitimacy of the battle to his discretion, of course, supplementing the request with my vision of the picture of this particular battle.
I repeat that the decision on holding tournaments on the original version should be made together with the decision to cancel the third criterion (provoking the player to use morale/luck in order to optimize losses and subsequent exchange of creatures for a resource that is the third criterion for victory).
And now I will ask the question again, with which I started my previous post. Can we continue to play on the original SoD? Of course, yes, without any particular problems. So why create a problem out of thin air?

And one more thing. If I was really concerned about the existing problems with the lack of a quorum in tournaments, then this alone

AmberSoler;198244

I’m probably old-fashioned, conservative, or maybe I’m just too lazy to install a patch... Well, do whatever you want with me... :) I’ll go back to HP if you forbid me to play the third game according to the old rules... Here, consider this an ultimatum. :smile14: Not a bad precedent, right? :D

would have prompted me to solve the problem of playing on the original SoD. This is regarding the question of who is fighting for what here. I was not going to stop playing on HW and I will not. Just leave the opportunity to play on the original version.

SHA is banned, a hero can be dismissed from the garrison.

DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.

K0Lb@zzeR

10/3/2008 2:28 AM UTC

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Good day to you all.

The sum of primary stats (before or after the final battle) is calculated with or without artifacts: after the final battle and including artifacts. This has always been the case on HeroesWorld, and no one had any objections then or now. Therefore, we are introducing this rule so that there will be no more questions. Regarding the recently concluded tournament on a specific patch – in that case, the parameters were counted BEFORE the final battle. Dirty_Player convinced me to do it this way, arguing that after the final battle, a hero can gain a different amount of experience, and therefore the number of levels gained by the hero after the battle may vary, and consequently, the final parameters of the hero will also differ. The player might have certain hero parameters after the battle, while when the battle is conducted by the organizer, they could already be different. Well, this isn't such a critical issue, nor does it arise very often, and it’s not too difficult for the organizer and the player to agree on it through personal correspondence. In general, I don't know... Let's decide... Although, what is there to decide? For the patch, let's make a decision, and everything else seems clear anyway.

For example, when reporting results in the "Race for Leader" Tournament, I always calculated the parameters after the final step, i.e., after the battle.

Sincerely, K0Lb@zzeR.

:smile13: [ТУРНИР] "Гонка за Лидером" :smile13:
:smile28: [M] "Я и моя тень" - "I am and my shadow" :smile28:
:smile16: ~~"Быстрая смерть" - "Fast Death"~~ :smile16:

In reply to K0Lb@zzeR

Dirty_Player

10/3/2008 4:22 AM UTC

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Here's an example! Let's say there's a map where the victory condition is to defeat 1000 Pit Lords. We approach the final battle with them, save the game, win, and send the save file! But here's the problem: the organizer will have to guess how much experience the player gained and how many parameters to write in the table. Of course, there are screenshots, but that's just extra... hassle :D

In reply to Dirty_Player

Dirty_Player

10/6/2008 2:25 AM UTC

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I suggest adding another clarification regarding the "neutral unit carrying" bug! I'm sure everyone uses it, but using bugs is prohibited, so let's decide whether it's a bug or a feature.

Монца

10/6/2008 5:55 AM UTC

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It seems like the AI also uses this feature.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Kamikaze

10/6/2008 7:27 AM UTC

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Dirty_Player;198966

I suggest adding another clarification related to the "neutral unit smuggling" bug! I'm sure everyone uses it, but using bugs is prohibited, so let's decide whether it's a bug or a feature?

I suggest leaving it as a feature and not worrying about it. It's a feature for connoisseurs! ;)

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Ivanhoj

10/7/2008 2:51 AM UTC

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1. I'm definitely in favor of the patch, but I don't mind SoD. Because with my rating, it doesn't really matter – I'm firmly in third place from the bottom. :D
2. I won't even comment on the criteria due to the reasons mentioned above.

Added 2 minutes later

Kamikaze;199003