Discussion about the game's artificial intelligence. — General

InSighter

4/11/2007 4:09 PM UTC

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Anyway, I played some more and analyzed it...
Overall, the AI acts quite reasonably: it builds up strength for a strike, and if it goes on the attack, it does so fully and in mass. If possible, it attacks immediately with two armies from different flanks, supported by dogs that go scouting and seize mines... If I have an equal or stronger army, it tries not to venture out of the city; if I'm close, it sometimes uses dogs to lure me away (if it has plenty of money)... In short, it's actually not bad—not human, but manageable. Even in the tactical phase, it occasionally comes up with unconventional moves, although it sure loves resurrecting people at random:rolleyes:

But here is the moment that pissed me off:smile10:
The ENTIRE battle, my towers were shooting at Ents standing in defense, who were being healed by paladins every turn....:eek:

In reply to ***JOKER***

MARKEL

5/3/2007 3:45 PM UTC

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In my opinion, the AI is cheating!!!! (although not by much). If you develop normally, you can defeat it. I have two reasons for saying this:
Firstly: the AI has 3, if not 4, castles after 1-2 months!!! And when
you arrive on its territory, it hasn't even captured a lumber mill,
only gems.
Secondly: on the 3rd month, in the tavern, I find out that the AI has
around 200-300 thousand gold and other resources, about 400!
Therefore, based on the first reason, the AI has a small army after 2-4
months, and it's easy to wipe them out.

In reply to MARKEL

Lord Vampire

5/11/2007 5:47 AM UTC

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The computer is definitely cheating, but the main thing is that it doesn't overdo it.

Тот, кто находит удовольствие в уединении, либо дикий зверь, либо Бог (с) Аристотель

:smile24::smile24::smile24::smile24::smile24:

Honart

5/11/2007 12:15 PM UTC

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I think the opponent's AI is good! Who else could so slyly take your castle except a computer opponent! When I emerge with my great army, and in its turn, it captures the castle! And it grabs the heroes by the... well, you know, when they run to the castle to replenish their troops.

Перед тем как что-то сделать надо подумать!А после того как сделаеш,подумай как это исправить!

Ambery

8/27/2008 2:56 PM UTC

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compared to the AI in the fourth game, the AI in the fifth Heroes game plays very intelligently... of course, a human can act more cunningly, more deviously, and more originally - that's undeniable! The AI has a set pattern of behavior, and therefore it is quite predictable)). But at least in battle, it doesn't make stupid mistakes. Once, it really surprised me! - It attacked my castle, destroyed the towers, and then simply started creating phantoms of its archer-witches. It filled four squads, and I was already out of mana)).
In general, it was a complete disaster.

KonServator

8/27/2008 4:28 PM UTC

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The AI is very slow on the map. Sometimes it has an army that is several times stronger than mine and an advantage in the number of cities, while I only have one city – and it just hesitates and wanders around its castles. This recently happened to me when I was playing the "Emerald" mission in the 5th campaign of the original Heroes V. And I wasn't even playing on some difficult level, but on the "Hero" difficulty. In general, the AI behaves very unpredictably on the map. However, during battles, the AI plays more intelligently, although there are still some stupid moves.

Sylexz

8/27/2008 6:21 PM UTC

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The AI in the game is as dumb as a doorknob. And it's not about the "strength" of its gameplay. On the highest difficulty level, due to its resource advantage and other factors, it has a certain chance of winning.

But the player is left with the feeling that they are playing against a tin can. The whole problem lies in the programmers' approach to creating the AI. By making it a faceless bot, without even a couple of "tricks" and interesting tactics (which the coders should have programmed into it), it doesn't resemble a real person in the slightest.

If the developers had tried to "humanize" the AI, i.e., give it the ability to build chains of actions, make "desperate" attacks, fight "to the last" in difficult moments, etc., then they would have created a successful illusion of a living opponent.

You might say: it's impossible to do that! But there is nothing impossible, and I'm telling you this as a programmer. Programming is nothing more than an imitation, a translation of objects and processes from the real world into the language of mathematics.

Moreover, there are examples of such successful AI. The computer opponent in "Civilization" immediately comes to mind.

The developers of the series gave each leader in the game unique traits, an individual attitude towards the player's actions and the events unfolding in the game, which, combined with the animated portrait of the computer ruler, makes the opponent "alive" and each game interesting and unpredictable.

I'm not even talking about the fact that the AI in "Civilization" can send a marine landing force behind enemy lines, after drawing away the main troops, create conspiracies against the human player, and much, much more.

I think that if the series didn't have such a well-developed AI, it wouldn't have achieved the popularity it has to this day.

Of course, computer players in "Civilization" don't compare to real players, but they fulfill their main task perfectly - to prevent you from getting bored in single-player mode.

Now it's clear and I know what I have to do
I must take you down there to look at them too
Hand in hand then we'll jump right into that pool
Can't you see not just me they want you too.

Iron Maiden (1983) Still Life

In reply to Sylexz

KonServator

8/28/2008 8:34 AM UTC

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Sylexz;193035

The AI in the game is as dumb as a doorknob. And it's not about the "strength" of its gameplay. On the highest difficulty level, due to its resource advantage and other factors, it has a certain chance of winning.

But the player is left with the feeling that they are playing against a tin can. The whole problem lies in the programmers' approach to creating the AI. By making it a faceless bot, without even a couple of "tricks" and interesting tactics (which the coders should have programmed into it), it doesn't resemble a living person in the slightest.

If the developers had tried to "humanize" the AI, i.e., give it the ability to build chains of actions, make "desperate" attacks, fight "to the last" in difficult moments, etc., then they would have created a successful illusion of a living opponent.

You might say: it's impossible to do that! But there is nothing impossible, and I can tell you that as a programmer. Programming is nothing more than an imitation, a translation of objects and processes from the real world into the language of mathematics.

Moreover, there are examples of such successful AI. The computer opponent from "Civilization" immediately comes to mind.

The developers of the series gave each leader in the game unique traits, an individual attitude to the player's actions and the events unfolding in the game, which, combined with the animated portrait of the computer ruler, makes the opponent "alive" and each game interesting and unpredictable.

I'm not even talking about the fact that the AI in "Civilization" can send a marine landing to the rear, after drawing away the main forces, and create conspiracies against the human player, and much, much more.

I think that if the series didn't have such a well-developed AI, it wouldn't have achieved the popularity it has to this day.

Of course, the computer players in "Civilization" don't compare to live players, but they fulfill their main task perfectly - to prevent you from getting bored in single-player mode.

I completely agree with Sylexz. In Civilization, the AI is really perfected. Sometimes it's even more interesting to play against a computer opponent than against a real one. Lately, I often play this game when I don't feel like playing Heroes.
Regarding the AI in Heroes V, I can add that the statement "The computer player gives cities even more importance," which characterizes the Hero difficulty level, is not entirely accurate. When the computer hero is one day's distance from my Castle, I often distract him with some hero with 1 low-level unit. And the computer always falls for it and goes to destroy my "army" of 1 unit.
:D :smile14: :D What stupidity!

Loken

8/28/2008 10:41 AM UTC

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and, to be honest, I can hardly imagine the "variety" you can get when playing against a **real person** in Heroes. Perhaps the only benefit is the satisfaction of winning. Heroes doesn't offer many of those "tricks" that a player can use but AI cannot. Mostly, these are minor tactics like sacrificing a weak unit to take a hit, or separating a single peasant before using Whirlwind, etc.

Первый, кто был забанен за Правду.

In reply to Loken

KonServator

8/28/2008 12:24 PM UTC

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Loken;193129

Frankly, I can hardly imagine the “diversity” you can get when playing against a real person in Heroes.

Yes, the AI’s stupidity is another reason to play Heroes V online.

DARK_DRAGON

8/28/2008 12:55 PM UTC

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AI sometimes plays poorly, but sometimes it plays very skillfully. It seems as if the developers didn't properly configure it; the AI itself is very intelligent and functional, but it hasn't been told when and how to play. I hope I was able to convey my thought.

Одна древняя легенда гласит,
Что темный дракон весь мир покорит,
Темный дракон - безликая тень,
Теперь навсегда ночь сменит день.
Он свергнет всех местных Богов,
Ни сила, ни воля не сдержат его.
Рыцарь, король - все одно для него,
С ним в битве исчезнет и зло, и добро.

.

WildKOT

8/29/2008 8:07 AM UTC

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Which Civilization are you talking about? Civilization 3? There, even with just 3 nuclear weapons and more cities than your opponent, you can trick them into giving you all their cities.

But in Heroes 5, I noticed that the opponent clearly collects everything from the main hero, with some exceptions.

Майор Вихрь

8/29/2008 8:19 AM UTC

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Which Civilization are you talking about? Civilization 3? There, even with just 3 nuclear weapons and more cities than your opponent, you can trick your way into capturing all the cities for free.

Civilization 3 is a much older game than Heroes, so comparing them isn't entirely accurate. It's better to compare it to the 4th installment. The AI in the 5th part also has "weaknesses"; it can be tricked as well. And it often divides its army into 2-3 heroes, which makes it sometimes easy to defeat, but it would be more challenging if it concentrated its forces into a single unit. Constant retreats are also an unpleasant feature, or rather, an absolute absurdity, which largely simplifies the game against the computer. Also, the AI develops heroes in a completely nonsensical way.

O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal

In reply to WildKOT

Sylexz

8/29/2008 1:25 PM UTC

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WildKOT;193283

Which Civilization are you talking about? The 3rd one?

No, I'm talking about the 4th one :). Although I actively played the 2nd and 3rd parts as well. It's just that the 4th one has the best AI I remember (among TBS games).

WildKOT;193283

And in the 5th Heroes, I noticed that the opponent clearly collects everything from the main hero, with some exceptions.

I don't understand what you're talking about. O.o What does he collect? Do you mean "loot" on the map? Well, he should be able to do that too...

As I said, playing against an AI opponent in HoMM5 is not interesting. Why? Because it's banal, predictable, and frankly stupid - take, for example, the regular fleeing from the battlefield (as many here have mentioned).

Moreover, the AI's entire strength in the 5th Heroes lies in blatant and unashamed cheating. Of course, computer opponents cheat in most other games as well, but in the best of them, they have other strengths.

Here, however, there are no alternatives. And that's not good.

Now it's clear and I know what I have to do
I must take you down there to look at them too
Hand in hand then we'll jump right into that pool
Can't you see not just me they want you too.

Iron Maiden (1983) Still Life