Posts from A Warrior hero from the Dungeon faction? That's absurd...

I would like to discuss the possibility of developing a Warrior hero while playing as the League.
It seems that all the prerequisites for this are in place. Namely:
Retribution (base attack bonus 15%)
Speed Aura (leadership, though only 2%...)
An incredible amount of attack power! (sometimes it's even higher than the spell power of a Mage hero)
Chain Lightning (additional damage to enemy units)
Excellent troops! Strong, fast, and with decent abilities. There's plenty of room for tactical maneuvers...
It seems that it shouldn't be any worse than a Mage...

But in reality... everything turns out rather bleak.
Any Warrior hero starts with stronger troops, the battle begins, and by the second turn, you realize the tiny mistake you made at the very beginning of the game. YOU SHOULD HAVE LEVELED UP A MAGE!...
Of course, whining doesn't help much.
And no matter how hard you try, no matter how much you struggle to preserve every unit of combat strength (sometimes it gets to the point where 1 Hunter becomes a reason to replay the battle manually), ANY Warrior hero from another Faction, with a smile, sends the Dark faction to eternal service to Malassa...

So, is it possible to have a successful Warrior hero from the League of Shadows? Or is it nonsense, complete and illogical?
Has anyone tried it? What were the results? What are the key details?

the problem with a combat-focused Warlock lies in the following: - his combat stats grow much worse than those of strength-based heroes; - his ability is purely magical; - yes, the leadership skill has an excessively low chance of appearing (which makes Retribution almost unusable); - unconventional troops for a warrior. The first point is clear, and I think that in the latest versions, the chance of an attack appearing has even been reduced. Elemental Chains, in reality, add only a small amount of damage, and unit attacks are not carried out to favor the elements, but strategically (to block, remove retaliation, etc.). Meanwhile, a demon, an orc, or even an elf does not face such a choice. As for the troops... no matter how excellent they are, they are practically unsuitable for a purely strength-based approach. The main attacking force of the Legion army is dragons and riders. Also, Furies, but they die very quickly. That's it. The rest are support units. Minotaurs are not capable of much, as they are terribly slow, with rare exceptions; Hydras are even less so; they are always left for later; Witches simply (de)buff, sometimes shooting moderately; single units... don't make me laugh. Either they poison assassins one by one, which is not particularly strong, or they deal one or two blows in melee, at the level of a Spearman. That's how it is. And there are few dragons, or none at all, unless, of course, the map is small. Riders are focused on and eliminated almost as quickly as Furies. Game over for the dungeon. And all that huge spell power is, by the way, wasted. ...yes, I forgot to mention the small increase in the first three levels, and the fact that warriors actively use Light and Darkness, which greatly increases their already excellent attacking potential. That's why the so-called warrior-type Warlock has no advantages over a pure mage.

I think that the hero is largely determined by the size of the map. On small maps, it is unlikely that you will be able to take unconventional skills. Also, there is no room for respecing, and there is no assortment of artifacts, so you have to equip not what is best for a warrior, but what is available. More room for creativity appears on monster-filled maps created in the map editor. There are utopias there, and simply creatures that guard artifacts, possibly mentors, as well as random towns where you can learn spells from unconventional schools. By the way, the question of a warlock-warrior has already been raised somewhere. I will try to list what they came up with:

- The hero is definitely Kifrah, because of her leadership.
- Naturally, attack with retaliation is maxed out, and the speed aura is taken.
- If defense is available, it is definitely taken, and it is also a good idea to take Stone Skin as a perk.
- Only artifacts that enhance creatures are equipped.
- Education is not necessarily taken, as a lot will still go into magic.
- Elemental chains are maxed out - after all, this enhances the damage dealt by creatures. But you shouldn't focus on them during battle. However, this is obvious.
- Luck. Again, this enhances damage.
- In order for the stats that went into magic and knowledge not to be wasted, and so that the hero does not slack off during battle, summoning is taken, and then it depends on the situation.
- You can also max out logistics and go up to surprise attack. If the hero is Kifrah, then the minotaurs, teleported to the right point on the battlefield, will definitely cause a lot of trouble.

That's roughly it. I haven't tested this in practice, but in general, there is nothing supernatural about it, although there is a strong dependence on randomness - a lot of stats may go into magic, or, conversely, the magic power may be very low.

but the point is that somewhere, the excess skill points need to be spent, and that's why summoning is chosen. and it's impossible to create a pure warrior.
"teleport assault" is perhaps the only thing that allows you to effectively use hydras/minotaurs, but this will require the hero to cast it, instead of a creature. a good choice for a warrior who doesn't level up magic at all.

but is such an unusual build better? at the very least, it doesn't contribute to quickly clearing neutral creatures..
unless you can use it on an orc, who will level up a chaotic skill, and the warlock won't be able to take chaos skills.

IMHO, if both heroes have leadership, a Warlock-Wizard with empathy, magic attraction, and abilities that reduce mana cost from sorcery will outperform a Warlock-Warrior with retribution.

In general, I tried to answer the author's question. I haven't been playing Heroes much lately, and I only know the skill and creature wheel well for the Dark Elves. In theory, it looks good, but I don't know how it works in practice. It's more relevant for long games, when chaos no longer dominates in every situation. But in general, it's quite difficult to play as a Warlock in long games; that's the hero balance. Personally, I would rather rely on Leto than on a non-standard build.

Hmm, I can't quite picture them as formidable warriors with combat skills. But as heroes with a strong army and magic, I can definitely see them. Although, why imagine it when I've already played as them?)) For me, Dark Elves are skilled and developed sorcerers, but not necessarily great warriors. Although, the idea of developing them as warriors is interesting, but I would still prefer a mage.

Heh... but what about playing as the Academics? When a Chaos Mage has only five (five, right?) spells that cannot be reflected by a Magic Mirror? And they also have a counterspell. Academics have three times more mana than a Warlock; you can consider your first spell to be your last in that battle.
Also, the Academics' skills mostly focus on strength and knowledge. And their troops are slow and not very proactive.
You can destroy half of the mages' army with a warrior hero on the very first turn.
You can also try this strategy with the Undead; their troops are also not very well-protected and are fast.
You can also try it with Demons; you need to attack them at the beginning so that fewer troops are summoned.
And a hero with only one magic skill is not yet a mage, and not even a combat mage; it's a warrior with magic... you can, for example, take Light or Darkness as support for combat skills. Although 2%...
In my opinion, a combat mage is a balance between magic and an army.

As for small maps, you can also easily choose combat skills on them; at least, I can always do it when I want to.
The Warlock's primary combat skills are developed... well, attack is usually very high (my observation). And defense... by visiting Marletto's Tower, it reaches 1 by the final battle.
By the way, I noticed that if you develop a hero as a warrior, then the skills also tend to focus more on attack and defense. No, on attack... and a little bit on defense.

During a battle, you can cast many spells, and each will reach its target. Mana is irrelevant here.
...but why cast ten spells at once? Usually, only two or three are used at most. A single-target spell, an area-of-effect spell... you can use a different element. No one invests in counterspells, and they don't always work – it's much better to cast something yourself than to waste an entire turn on it, so you don't need to worry about that.

With a Warrior hero, you can destroy half of the mage's army on the first turn.

How? With a Knight? A Dragon? Half the army? I highly doubt it. Only the Furies in the Dungeon have high initiative; the other units aren't known for it. Besides, a mage's army can be comparable in speed and initiative to even a demonic army, especially when equipped with mini-artifacts and/or buffed with Light, which the Academy has no problem with.

You can also try this strategy with the Undead; their troops aren't particularly well-protected or fast either.

It's a complete failure; the Dungeon's unique troops, even when fully buffed, won't be able to do much besides using Subdue and Berserk.

A hero with only one magic skill isn't a mage, and not even a combat mage; it's a warrior with magic...

The most common build is a Warlock with only Chaos, and I wouldn't call him a magic warrior, you know ;D
Very few people invest in two magic skills – mainly, only the Academy.

The Academy unit, like the Warlock, doesn't excel in combat stats. Counterspell will lead to a mutual inability to cast spells if neither of them has empathy. Everything will be decided by the troops. If empathy is only present in one of them, nothing will save the opponent. I always level up attack and luck for the Warlock.

In my opinion, against the Academy, it's more reliable to take Kifru due to her leadership.

Loken, if I manage to quickly gain leadership while playing as a mage, I will definitely level up counterspell and empathy.

If you're facing an Academic, the mana cost for a counterspell is double the spell's cost. But counterspells don't always work, so what's the point? And using a targeted spell against Academics isn't very effective... it could backfire badly... especially if it's Earth Shock!:eek:
A Warlock gets a LOT of attack, making it perfect for a rush in the first turn.
If an Academic knows in advance that the enemy is a Warlock, they might even specifically level up to get the counterspell. And in a battle against a Warlock, it's definitely better to forgo your own spell than to see a meteor shower raining down on your army, amplified by Arcane Wave and Elemental Chains. And if it's a lucky sorcerer too!..:eek:
Regarding army composition, a dragon with an aura, tactics, and possibly boots can reach any enemy unit. There's a good chance to burn down mages through the units protecting them. Riders, of course. Furies - yes. Hydras? Hmm... only if you use teleport. Minotaurs will reach the enemy in 2 turns with that speed, and they're not just there to collect butterflies. I can't say anything definitive about mini-artifacts, but they don't increase speed enough to reach the enemy in one turn, do they? And light won't save a mage from a warrior anyway ;)
Regarding the undead, I can say the following:
What about killing most of the enemy troops in the first turn? This is quite possible. Casting Berserk on enemy units next to your own units is no better than casting Phoenix during Elemental Equilibrium. And the tactic for killing undead involves rushing all available units towards the undead. You also need to cast a debuff, which also takes time, but the troops are fast...
Yes, a Warlock with only one HoS is not a mage, it's an unskilled attempt to make a warrior. At least, that's what happened to me a couple of times. A mage also needs sorcery, education, and luck wouldn't hurt. And chaos, of course:)
And it's not for nothing that the Heroes of Might and Magic have their own favorites, not everyone is an absolute mage.
The growth is indeed small... but the troops are not weak either. What is the troop growth of the Castle faction compared to the growth in other castles?

Yeah, a Warlock with only one Chaos skill isn't a mage, it's just a clumsy attempt to make a warrior.

I disagree. Even with a second school of magic, it feels wasteful to spend the hero's turn on buffs/debuffs or mind control/berserk when you can wipe out a crowd of enemies with enhanced Chaos magic. That's why I only level up Chaos for my Warlock.

A mage also needs Sorcery, Education, and Luck wouldn't hurt. And of course, Chaos:)

I agree with that. That's exactly what I level up. Also, Empathy, if I can get Leadership quickly enough. Otherwise, I level up Attack.

In the Stronghold campaign, my Elai was offered Leadership right after the first level-up. She couldn't refuse. She turned out to be a great elf. In the final mission, she single-handedly crushed all the enemies in the dungeon with her starting army. She just didn't have enough time to capture the native castle. I played on the Hero difficulty in version 3.0.

Yesterday, after seeing this thread, I decided to try playing with a Warlock and companions... I started with the Warlock, and then I only hired heroes with starting combat skills. The main drawback of the Warlock-Warrior became apparent during a battle in the siege of an enemy castle, considering the 1-level unit and 1.5-level archer in the Warlock's army. The Furies, which the Warlock specialized in, became almost useless, as did all other melee units. I had to start developing war machines. A surprise attack also helped...
By the way, I chose purely strength-based Barbarians, half strength and half magic-based Demons, and a magic-specialized race, Mages, as my enemies. I took a beating from the Demons, considering the high speed and initiative of Cerberuses and Nightmares. And there's no need to even talk about the Mages.
I came to the conclusion that the Warlock-Warrior can effectively fight against Barbarians, Dwarves, Necromancers, and other Warlocks specializing in combat skills, which is quite rare. This is my opinion.

Added 3 minutes later

That's why I only develop Chaos for the Warlock.

I think summoning magic is also a good choice for the Warlock. And there are enough spells in the guild. Summoning elementals + fire warriors is a significant advantage. And the low initiative of fire elementals (8) can be compensated for with mass haste. To prevent the main troops from dying too early, Heavenly Shield will help. And the Phoenix that the Warlock gets is no worse than the one the Necromancer or Mage gets.
I agree that Warlocks are simply born for Chaos magic. But summoning shouldn't be ignored either!;)

KonServator is right about summoning. I recently played as a Warlock in Heroes of Might and Magic, using summoning against Orcs. The Orcs, even if they do summon units (which is rare), create chaos. I also focused on attack and defense, resulting in a powerful combat mage who completely crushed the Orcs in the early second month. But what really stands out are the mines. They deal insane damage; only 15 unfortunate warmongers made it to my warriors, and all the cyclops (there were 8 or 9, as there were 3 Orcish outposts on the map) could only reach the middle. There were no problems finishing off the remaining shamans and centaurs. Overall, I was very impressed, and I think I'll experiment more with a warlock focused on summoning.

I usually level up my hero with Chaos and Summoning skills, sometimes I add Defense and Attack skills to them, and you can also level up Dark skills. It turns out pretty good :) :smile24: :smile51: