Posts from A program for determining luck/morality in Heroes 3!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but why would a cheating player record a battle on video? It's like stealing something and then sending the video to the police! Is he really that much of an idiot to expose himself like that??? :confused:

But think about it the other way around. Why record battles at all? Where did this idea come from? I'm not saying anything, let alone accusing anyone, but it means the player was confident that no one could win the battle, and no one would simply believe his words about blinding three times and demoralizing six times. He wrote a program, uploaded the video, and now he seems innocent. But this doesn't answer the questions; in fact, it raises even more. If he won an impossible battle, did he have to repeat it to record it? Or did he record all 10,000 of his attempts? And why did he write the program, and specifically in this tournament? Was he sure he would win this impossible battle, and that no one would be able to repeat it? Think about that.

vbn is a cheater. He's a conscious cheater, even preparing for a check. During the check, he hoped they would believe his unbelievable luck. And if they didn't, he would say, "Experienced players can get lucky," (this is a quote from this thread, although not his), citing the morale/luck mechanic as proof (I have data that he knew about this very well) and saying that it's impossible to prove. This is incorrect. Because even knowing the mechanism, the maximum you can do without cheating is to time one or two occurrences, and even then, only at the beginning of the battle. And the cheating is provable. In the first battle, not only did luck occur 5 out of 6 times, but it's important how it happened. I already wrote about this. There's a clear manipulation of the luck percentage for the snipers, and in the second battle, blinding for the unicorns and morale/luck for the same snipers. In the second battle, he was caught red-handed, not realizing that the effect of spells on units works according to the same scheme. The third time, he gave himself away when he said that the video was staged, recorded after the game. The fourth time, he gave himself away when he admitted that he "doesn't use programs that predict luck" - the cheating mechanism became clear. And the fifth time, when he wrote about the combat spirit and luck mechanic in the style of "some say... according to authoritative players," even though he clearly knew about it, in my opinion, better than anyone else here. Before the "Heroes Cop" appeared, many players confessed to me in private that they change the probability of different classes of heroes appearing in the tavern in the resource files, saying that it can't be detected. I waited for someone to slip up: they would have two identical heroes of the same class in one tavern window, or a non-native hero would appear in the left window for the computer, etc. But I couldn't catch anyone red-handed. Here, I succeeded. 2invisible (in the tirade supporting vbn). A rare verbal diarrhea - not a single fact, only "he's cool, unrealistically cool. And I believe him because he's cool." Not even an argument, just a statement. Although, there is one fact - "I don't know who Banana is." And there's an argument, fitting the fact - "I don't want to know anything." But I do. And overall, it's funny. Those who suggest checking all saves in the future (of the winners, selectively, etc.) and attack, saying, "who are you to - a terrible thing! - accuse?" Even to the point of saying "just accuse!" I fell off my chair laughing when I read "those who haven't learned to lose are just envious of the winner." Now about how to move forward. Those who say that this is "not a big deal" are shortsighted. Just for fun, I'll play a tournament here - all my units will always attack with the maximum damage (with 2-5 damage, always 5), and the computers will always attack with the minimum damage. And I'll shout here, "this is theoretically possible, I played each battle for five hundred and twenty-six hours." What else? My manticores/medusas/basilisks will always attack without a response: I attack - and the enemy unit is petrified/paralyzed. As soon as it recovers, it happens again. And so on, forty times in a row. My bone dragons will halve the health of all enemy units - seven out of seven times, wizards/genies and other creatures will cast what I tell them to. There will be a video :) And even if I suddenly miss something and an impossible action happens, I'll say, "But my heroes are like that - everything is normal. Believe me!"

He slipped up for the third time when he mentioned that the video was staged – recorded after the battle.

Yes, I missed that point. As I already wrote in a private message to Dirty Player:

If he won the battle and then decided to record it and write a program, it means he repeated it at least twice, which means it can be repeated with the same relative ease a third time. If so, he can describe the algorithm for conducting the entire battle. In a way that anyone can repeat it.

But that doesn't happen. This is at least strange.

Is it even possible for an ability to trigger during a counterattack?
I always thought that abilities only work during a direct attack.

Now, about how to move forward. Those who say that "it's not a big deal" are shortsighted. Just for fun, I'll play a tournament here – all my units will always deal maximum damage (with damage ranging from 2-5, they will always deal 5), and the computer will deal minimum damage to me. And I'll shout here, "This is theoretically possible; I played each battle for 26 hours straight." What else? My Manticores/Medusas/Basilisks will always attack without retaliation: I attack, and the enemy unit is petrified/paralyzed – what luck! As soon as it recovers, it happens again. And so on, forty times in a row. My Bone Dragons will halve the health of all enemy units – seven times out of seven; Wizards/Djinn and other creatures will cast whatever I tell them to. There will be a video :)

And even if I don't account for something and an impossible action occurs, I'll say, "But my heroes are like that – it's all normal. Believe me!"

Of course, all of this is true, but I would still like to hear your constructive suggestions (in connection with this non-trivial situation) regarding changes to the rules for offline Heroes 3 tournaments that could be considered and possibly implemented starting with the next tournament.

Play TE. Once you get to TE, switch to version 2. They say that battles are 100% repeatable there. As a temporary solution, I can suggest a rule that used to be in effect on the Portal (and may still be in effect now): if the host cannot reproduce the battle based on the description after five attempts, it is considered a loss.

Play TE. Once they get used to TE, switch to version 2. They say that battles are 100% repeatable there.

As a temporary solution, I can suggest a rule that used to be in effect on the Portal (and possibly still is): if the moderator cannot repeat the battle based on the description after five attempts, it is considered a loss.

I think such a rule is in effect everywhere, only my limit for such attempts is 10. In any case, if a situation arises where I cannot reproduce a battle, a detailed description of the battle is requested from the player, and as a rule, such a battle can be repeated based on the description (at least in version 1, since luck and morale are regulated there).

Hmm... if we don't find a solution to the current situation, we will really have to think about switching to TE, which, frankly, I wouldn't like:smile43:

Sincerely, VDV_forever

Brutal. But it seems like the "Luck" build is done for. Then, the "Pandora" build, like in "The Restoration of Erathia," with a handful of "Despair" spirits, and a complete ban on "Luck" should be implemented.

First of all, don't worry about online play. A person either cheats or doesn't. If they cheat, they don't care whether you have a program to detect it or not. A map editor or a second computer in the club is more than enough for them, and they don't need any moral justification. Do you think that in a random game, the winner will be the one with superior morale among their troops, or the one who, by following the optimal path, collects the entire map? No amount of morale will help against a three times stronger hero and a five times larger army. Regarding WBN, I'll say this: I'm always willing to play against this person, and it's ridiculous to accuse him of cheating. His win-loss ratio online is about the same as many other good players, nothing special. If he wanted to cheat, he would win all the Tournaments he participated in. I repeat, you can cheat without any program. To assume that a person doesn't cheat online but does cheat offline is illogical; a cheater is a cheater everywhere, and they need to win everything. WBN simply successfully combined online and offline play; usually, people only have the patience for one. This is why he performed so well in your Tournament, and not because of cheating.

I intend to make a video recording today (of course, in one continuous shot) of the following nature:
1) the video will record the entire screen;
2) at the beginning of the video, the Task Manager will be opened, showing all running processes and tasks;
3) then, without minimizing the Task Manager, I will open the folder with Heroes 3 installed (Platinum, 4.0), show the contents of the Data subfolder, and launch Heroes;
4) I will load the save file from which I conducted the battle;
5) I will repeat the battle again and save;
6) I will close Heroes, show the contents of the Data subfolder again, enter my email inbox, and send the exe file of Heroes, from which I conducted the game, to the email addresses of those who require proof.

Questions:
1) please provide the email addresses to which I should send the Heroes exe file;
2) will this video be sufficient for you, and if not, what else do you need me to record or send via email.

In my non-programmer opinion, such battles for "today" are not possible. And, in general, the question about the video seems irrelevant.
I'm curious, what could explain why Unicorns blind in reverse for you, but not for me?

I already wrote about it. The battle always plays out the same way for me. Always! Identically! Just like in Heroes 2, you see?

Do you mean a 100% consistent chance of a database trigger/luck/ability activating when performing the same actions?

invisible (23:28:20 9/08/2008) because morale is the kind of thing where you don't know how much of it you need to fish for
Vitaly (23:28:51 9/08/2008) No
Vitaly (23:30:47 9/08/2008) read
Dirty_Player (21:25:25 9/08/2008) by the way, I wanted to ask you a question that's been on my mind the whole time I was watching the video of the cons[ervatory]
Vitaly (21:25:45 9/08/2008) go on
Dirty_Player (21:26:36 9/08/2008) Why do you first move the unicorn down, then morale hits and you move up??? why all the show-off? he can just strike immediately!!!
Vitaly (21:27:04 9/08/2008) didn't I write to you about this? if I wanted to, I'd write it in the thread
Vitaly (21:27:19 9/08/2008) look, I attacked the conservatory with the Unicorns
Dirty_Player (21:27:23 9/08/2008) yeah
Vitaly (21:27:49 9/08/2008) and I started playing, simply trying to take the conservatory, online, without "generating" anything,
and then those... those... people would come with their "forced" phrases
Vitaly (21:28:01 9/08/2008) and I was simply trying to block the snipers with the unicorn
Vitaly (21:28:19 9/08/2008) and then they got morale
Dirty_Player (21:28:28 9/08/2008) and you decided to strike
Vitaly (21:28:34 9/08/2008) decided, I just decided to strike
Vitaly (21:28:39 9/08/2008) and they blinded [me]
Dirty_Player (21:28:53 9/08/2008) I actually thought so....
Vitaly (21:28:58 9/08/2008) but I think morale wouldn't have triggered otherwise
Vitaly (21:29:10 9/08/2008) I think I checked later - it didn't
Vitaly (21:29:47 9/08/2008) anyway, the first half of the battle went by itself
Vitaly (21:29:52 9/08/2008) without generating
Vitaly (21:29:59 9/08/2008) and then I had to generate
Vitaly (21:30:13 9/08/2008) but the battle map there is unambiguous, I told you about this phenomenon
Vitaly (21:30:21 9/08/2008) when you took the cons[ervatory] with 100 archers
Vitaly (21:30:33 9/08/2008) there you just had to try all the options
Dirty_Player (21:30:38 9/08/2008) I just don't understand HOW you managed it??? You did the conservatory capture in online mode, won, and then recorded it on video.... Meaning you fought the battle twice, one that would take a month to generate!!!!!
Vitaly (21:30:45 9/08/2008) I don't know, it seems to me that delays had nothing to do with it
Vitaly (21:30:51 9/08/2008) 2?
Vitaly (21:30:59 9/08/2008) I did it 10 times
Vitaly (21:31:06 9/08/2008) I recorded this video about 10 times
Dirty_Player (21:31:07 9/08/2008) But that's the thing, I couldn't repeat the battle with 100 marksmen a second time
Vitaly (21:31:16 9/08/2008) I recorded it by playing over again
Dirty_Player (21:31:20 9/08/2008) does everything really repeat????
Vitaly (21:31:24 9/08/2008) so that the duration would be as short as possible
Dirty_Player (21:31:36 9/08/2008) now I get it all!
Vitaly (21:31:36 9/08/2008) exactly, it repeats absolutely fully
Dirty_Player (21:31:41 9/08/2008) understood!!!!
Vitaly (21:31:57 9/08/2008) you see, but I still don't understand what delays have to do with it )
Vitaly (21:32:01 9/08/2008) what it depends on
Vitaly (21:32:05 9/08/2008) probably the OS
Dirty_Player (21:32:09 9/08/2008) when you play at speed with 0 seconds delay, then the video repeats!
Dirty_Player (21:32:14 9/08/2008) OS has nothing to do with it
Vitaly (21:32:40 9/08/2008) no
Vitaly (21:32:47 9/08/2008) I used delays too
Vitaly (21:32:55 9/08/2008) look, I did the first half of the battle
Vitaly (21:33:05 9/08/2008) then I generated the second half
Vitaly (21:33:09 9/08/2008) i.e. I played half the battle
Vitaly (21:33:19 9/08/2008) and then started thinking during the battle where to go
Vitaly (21:33:24 9/08/2008) and did this dozens of times
Vitaly (21:33:41 9/08/2008) so there were delays there
Dirty_Player (21:34:16 9/08/2008) well, you're telling me fairy tales... maybe you just happened to hit the right window by chance?
Vitaly (21:38:31 9/08/2008) no
Vitaly (21:38:37 9/08/2008) I replayed it so many times
Vitaly (21:38:47 9/08/2008) surely something would have gone wrong at least once
Vitaly (21:39:03 9/08/2008) and you're sitting there drinking tea, talking on the phone in the middle of the battle
Vitaly (21:39:07 9/08/2008) there was not a single glitch
Dirty_Player (21:39:26 9/08/2008) damn, this contradicts my understanding of morale in Heroes 3
Vitaly (21:39:35 9/08/2008) agreed
Vitaly (21:39:38 9/08/2008) but that's how it is
Vitaly (21:39:53 9/08/2008) I've already written my observations, read them again
Dirty_Player (21:39:59 9/08/2008) I believe you! But I'm wondering why it's like that
Vitaly (21:40:12 9/08/2008) it turns out that,
apparently under some condition, this "R" is constant
Vitaly (21:40:19 9/08/2008) I know you believe me
Vitaly (21:40:24 9/08/2008) you're just bewildered
Dirty_Player (21:40:42 9/08/2008) exactly
Vitaly (21:41:36 9/08/2008) who's stopping R from being constant
Vitaly (21:41:54 9/08/2008) from a probability standpoint, even an RNG can produce repeating numbers in a row
Dirty_Player (21:41:55 9/08/2008) now that's starting to sound like Heroes 2
Vitaly (21:42:29 9/08/2008) aha
Vitaly (21:42:47 9/08/2008) and I wrote that it's like that in conservatories and internal buildings
Vitaly (21:42:55 9/08/2008) but not always, it seems
Dirty_Player (21:42:57 9/08/2008) that's not true!
Vitaly (21:43:02 9/08/2008) idk what it depends on
Dirty_Player (21:43:12 9/08/2008) internal buildings have nothing to do with it
Dirty_Player (21:43:26 9/08/2008) I was taking the utopia just now. I'm tired of fishing for morale!
Vitaly (23:33:06 9/08/2008) that's it
Vitaly (23:36:23 9/08/2008) understand now? I wasn't fishing for... any morale
invisible (23:36:34 9/08/2008) )
Vitaly (23:36:46 9/08/2008) this word "forced" is already... getting to me
Vitaly (23:37:02 9/08/2008) it just... turns my stomach to hear such words
Vitaly (23:37:21 9/08/2008) as if I sat there for half a month and generated this... gd
invisible (23:37:33 9/08/2008) don't pay attention
Vitaly (23:38:34 9/08/2008) I'm trying... but... inside... damn, clenched my teeth... kept quiet... and now... I'm speaking )

I already wrote about it.
The battle always plays out the same way for me. Always! The same! Just like in Heroes 2, you see?

Doesn't it seem strange that it never repeats for anyone else?
Really, this person is incredibly lucky to have a computer that always produces identical battles. And then the person writes: "Vitaly (21:29:59 9/08/2008)" and then "had to generate" it. So, it's "strange" that it doesn't always happen, or does it always happen only when needed? And when it's not needed, it doesn't always happen. Interesting, isn't it? Make up your mind, is it always or not always?
And once you've decided, decide why it's always the opposite for everyone else?
"Strange," right? Well, maybe you should reinstall Heroes and check again. And when the "strangeness" disappears, try repeating everything from the beginning.
P.S. And if you're so sure that you have such "good luck," then maybe you should go play at a casino? Or visit someone and repeat how it always works out for you. We're not particularly interested in watching a cartoon about spaceships traversing the universe.