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Posts from Invisibility for the Town Hall.

Dungeon
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Is it necessary to adjust the invisibility stat for Tower units?
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Offline Майор Вихрь
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Posts: 3,559
#46
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Guys, let's just stop this... There's a lot of off-topic stuff and unnecessary arguments. Let's just relax... Personally, I already understand each participant's attitude towards invisibility; what's the point of continuing to prove something that you probably won't be able to prove? :) And you're all countrymen, by the way :) If you continue, I'll close the thread.

P.S. "BDP" - battle to the death, a skill in the defense branch.
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
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Offline Loken
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Posts: 1,660
#47
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haha, guys, if for you a drawn game character, painted like a slut, dressed in slutty mesh stockings, shaking her hips, and whipping the ground with a whip is "someone who shouldn't be offended because she is a Personality," then I sincerely feel sorry for you. I expected to see masturbation everywhere, but not in Heroes... Whirlwind, I don't see any off-topic here; there's a "discussion about invisibility in tier 6" using an alternative upgrade as an example. Ugh, I don't like dissecting a message and quoting it, but what can you do, I'll have to...
And it doesn't have to be EXACTLY on them, because mass slow and other similar mass spells of darkness will automatically be applied to everyone, but not to the witches thanks to invisibility. And 3 turns seems like a short time when you're fighting neutrals, but in the endgame, it's a lot.
So what, a witch who doesn't get hit by mass slow will carry the whole game? What kind of army is it that unconditionally loses to mass slow?
If I have a choice - to lose a couple of archers when attacking, or to lose an extra five minutes, tediously arranging, moving, and calculating all sorts of trajectories for the witches to move, I'll choose the first. Okay, if it's a couple, but what if it's a couple of dozen?
If it's a couple of dozen, then either I'll bring the whole army onto the field, or I won't get involved in such a battle at all if it's not worth it. But if it is... then it's worth it :) In the rest...
In general, archers in Dungeon are not liked for some reason. Apparently, the damage is too low. Compare the damage of riders when charging with the shot of the Mistresses. There's no need to think about who to take out first. And you'll have to run anyway, because if it's a battle with a demon, where are you going to get mana if the imps steal it? And even if it's not a demon, everyone understands that you can't delay with Dungeon, you have to go on the attack right away. And then the riders might not be lucky if they end up facing paladins, for example. No, if you want to get some benefit from them on the battlefield, you have to run without thinking. Otherwise, there will be no one left to run with later.
Well, it depends. Too many "ifs." If the riders end up facing fast units, if you're playing against Inferno, if..., if... Yes, riders are always taken out. But if you have regular, ranged witches, then in some cases they can become the priority target of the enemy, and not the riders. Everything is relative, but the point is that the alternative upgrade for witches - hussies - doesn't change the game.
Первый, кто был забанен за Правду.
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Offline Wistrit
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Posts: 11,947
#48
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"Hahaha, guys, if for you a drawn game character, painted like a slut, dressed in sluty fishnet stockings, shaking its hips, and whipping the ground with a whip is "someone who shouldn't be offended because they are an Individual," then I sincerely feel sorry for you. I expected to see fanboys everywhere, but not here in Heroes..." – come on in, let's discuss it. --> /topic/4989/

Major Vikhr, what exactly isn’t off-topic here? The topic concerns invisibility; does that mean we should only talk about the word "invisibility" and whether we "like" or "don't like" it?:) What a great dialogue this will be: - I like invisibility! - And I don't! - You're wrong! - No, you're wrong! - "Boo hoo"... Moderators!.. - "Boo hoo"... Mods!.. :D All the facts and arguments we discuss relate to invisibility. However, you can disagree.;)
By the way, we aren't even trying hard, and it doesn't seem like we're trying to prove anything to each other(!).

3 turns in the final battle? In my opinion, the average final battle lasts exactly three turns if the opponents are equal (and if not, no witches will save you). And after that, there will be nowhere else to go.

"if I have a choice – lose a couple of hit points when attacking, or lose an extra five minutes painstakingly arranging, moving, and calculating all possible witch movement paths, then I will choose the first option" - I meant game time during combat. And even if you fight with your entire army, the risk of defeat is still lower.
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Offline Vayshan
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Posts: 873
#49
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But what if the witch, who isn't affected by the mass slow, carries the whole game? What kind of army is so easily defeated by a mass slow?
Who knows, maybe she will. Anything can happen in Heroes. Or should we just ignore mass spells now? They don't matter, according to your post. What's -40% initiative?
If it's a couple of dozen, then either I'll bring the whole army onto the field, or I won't engage in such a battle at all if it's not worth it. But if it is... then it is.
Actually, I thought you were going to lose "a couple" of units by deploying the entire army. No, against strong archers, invisibility and more invisibility are the key. Why deploy the rest? So they can take damage?
Well, it's hard to say. Too many "ifs." If the cavalry faces fast units, if you're playing against Inferno, if..., if...
Yes, cavalry is always targeted. But if you have regular, ranged witches, in some cases they can become the enemy's priority target, not the cavalry. Everything is relative, but the point is that the alternative upgrade for witches – the "shamars" – doesn't win you the game.
There are only two "ifs." And the second one happens quite often. I don't remember witches ever being a priority target, even for the AI, let alone a human player... I'm just saying that witches with their invisibility are no worse than ranged units. I don't know what to choose sometimes, but when I take melee units, I've never been disappointed.
3 turns in the final battle? In my opinion, the average final battle lasts about three turns if the opponents are equal (and if not, then no witches will save you). And then there will be nowhere to go.
Witches sitting in invisibility can be considered support units for your troops, and then, when the invisibility ends, they will be our reserve. And there's a big question of whether they will help or not. After all, level 6 with decent damage.
And even if you're fighting with the whole army, the risk of defeat is still lower.
Yes, attacking titans with only invisible units carries a certain risk, but at most, it's one or two shots at our troops. That's not a defeat. And without risk, you can't win in Heroes.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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Offline Майор Вихрь
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Posts: 3,559
#50
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I'm more concerned about the pointless argument. If WisTrit doesn't consider witch invisibility to be overpowered, but even ridiculous, then Vayshan is trying, if not to convince him, then at least to prove the opposite. I know that trying to prove something, even with well-reasoned arguments, is impossible, and an endless argument isn't good either, but I admire WisTrit and Vayshan for the lack of flame and mutual insults. However, right now, the conversation is starting to resemble a holy war, like "Windows vs Linux" and so on. Well, okay, do as you wish, continue arguing. They say that truth is born in argument. Let's see what truth you "give birth to" :D
By the way, we're not even trying hard, and it doesn't seem like we're trying to prove anything TO each other.
So what are you doing then? What is the purpose of your arguments if not the desire to convince each other? To prove your point of view, perhaps, to show that one of you is right and the other is wrong?

P.S. I renamed the topic. IMHO, this title is more suitable for what is being discussed here. The question about off-topic discussion is no longer relevant.

P.P.S. We're going to meet the people's needs :D
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
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Offline Vayshan
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Posts: 873
#51
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So, we continue then)))))
Regarding witches and their invisibility, I suggest trying them out instead of the Sovereigns in a few games, rather than dismissing them immediately just because you didn't like them at first – and then not playing with them at all. I use all the upgrades, even for the new mounts.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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Offline Dracon Малласа
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Posts: 782
#52
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Regarding invisibility, 2 units with invisibility are more than enough (unless you just want to do it for fun and create invisible riders in one turn). But the problem is that 3 turns of invisibility for Stalkers is overpowered; I would reduce it to 2.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...
Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!
КИНО
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Offline Loken
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Posts: 1,660
#53
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John, I’m telling you – I played in different ways. Yes, you can play “for fun” a couple of times, but in “serious games” I would bet on Matron.
Первый, кто был забанен за Правду.
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Offline Vayshan
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Posts: 873
#54
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Well, no one will stop you, of course; here, the upgrades are equivalent. But against neutral creatures, I prefer the new ones because invisibility is key here.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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Offline Нэйко
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Posts: 15,120
#55
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I don't use it often, but this ability of the Stalkers is simply amazing:D. It's convenient to make it invisible, and the enemy can't harm it during that time. Only magic can affect it, and even then, not all magic, only the magic that targets the cell it's in.
Графомания путешественника
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Offline Nightwell
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Posts: 43
#56
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The ability is useless against enemy heroes because you can simply reveal invisibility by moving a unit next to them, and then your assassins will attack.
Archers are still more useful. Invisibility is only effective against neutrals and Necropolis.
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Offline Amko
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Posts: 13,542
#57
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Simply being near him isn't enough; you also need to stand next to him. ;) And you can move them further away from the center of the field while you, while they are invisible, cast spells. It might help in quick games. But in later stages, yes, there's more value in having aces.
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Offline Nightwell
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#58
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Even (let's say) invisible units managed to reach the end and attacked someone from the archers. But in every army, there are slow units that usually hang out in the back (like the TE-Hydra, for example), unless you use teleports, which doesn't happen very often. And again, minus one unit.
Archers in the back will definitely be more useful.
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Offline Wistrit
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Posts: 11,947
#59
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But if they reach them, the archers will be dead. :)
In general, hunters are good for hit-and-run tactics.
Tomorrow holds no promises
Except the ones we've made
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Offline Мститель
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Posts: 498
#60
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Assassins shoot with a mega-penalty, the damage is negligible, and poisoning only justifies them to a small extent. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that hunters are simply the only viable choice.
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