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So, what about the "SA" skill? Let's say there's a possibility to take it... but then you lose the tactics of speed aura, ballista readiness, and many other things... is it worth sacrificing 3 levels of rage at the beginning of the battle?
P.S. I don't understand why everyone writes that orcs don't need defense. In my opinion, orcs only need "sturdy defense"; all other skills are not designed for the need to press the defense button... on the contrary, even orcs would greatly benefit from magic resistance and evasion, etc. I personally really like readiness for all races.
Майор Вихрь
18 years ago
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Defense is actually useful for any race, but if you're not playing with levels 30+, it might simply not fit. The primary goal of an Orc is to defeat the enemy as quickly as possible (especially if it's a mage; this refers directly to the battle, not to prolonging or shortening the game). To achieve this, you need attack with tactics and retaliation, leadership if possible to increase the number of turns for Orcish troops, as well as a speed aura (no comment needed) and, if possible, Battle Fury, as it's a useful skill. Logistics doesn't really need any further explanation. Luck enhances physical damage, and it's useful for Orcs more than anyone else. For a short game, choose units with offensive skills and some of the above (you can't take everything at once). If Education becomes available, take it purely for the extra stats (in general, it's optional, but for me, it's a must-have). Defense just doesn't fit in. And you might also want to take Silence (although I would refuse in any case). No, I'm not denying the usefulness of defense, but there are much more useful skills specifically for Orcs. IMHO.
So, what about SA? Let's say there's a possibility to use SA... but then you lose the tactics of speed aura, ballista, and readiness, and many other things... is it worth it for 3 levels of Fury at the beginning of the battle?
P.S. I don't understand why everyone writes that Orcs don't need defense. In my opinion, Orcs only need "Stalwart Defense"; all other skills are not designed for the need to press the defense button... on the contrary, Orcs would really benefit from magic resistance, evasion, etc. I personally really like readiness for all races.
Defense is not needed for Orcs because it reduces Fury, which increases attack. Of course, Orcs don't need to defend.
It is impossible to completely protect against magic. To protect against magic, use silence spells, but no more than two.
Orcs don't need defense because they lose Rage, which increases their attack. Orcs shouldn't defend themselves.
They don't lose anything; they can move back and forth between adjacent tiles... The defense skill adds defense to units as such, regardless of whether the defense action is used or not (defense perks also, except for the "Stalwart Defense" perk).
defeat the enemy in the shortest possible time
I don't like fast games; I like to play with full upgrades... When we play, we even agree on a non-aggression period after which combat can begin...
So, in principle, you can develop a Sorceress without any problems... I would like to know what is better after all... Orcs are not like the Inferno dogs/goats or the forest centaurs. There are no very slow creatures; they are not very fast, so maybe it's better to take a Sorceress instead of some perks like a speed aura?
P.S. Does the "Darkness Shroud" spell help against mind control/berserk?
Regarding the lack of space... Attack Leadership Luck Defense Machines/Logistics (in principle, in our games, logistics and ballistae are mainly for sieges)
Майор Вихрь
18 years ago
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I don't like fast-paced games; I prefer to play with full upgrades... When we play, we even agree on a non-aggression period after which we can engage in combat...
It's a personal preference for everyone, but I prefer games with an element of unpredictability. And when I talk about destroying in the shortest possible time, I mean the direct clash on the battlefield. You just need to try to defeat the enemy's troops as early as possible, especially if they have magic. An attack is perfect for this. Considering the high damage of Orcs, the benefit of additional percentages will be more noticeable than, for example, for a Knight or a Dark Elf. But defense will also reduce the already not very high damage that reaches the Orcs (rage and good defense stats are still important).
Regarding the lack of space... Attack, of course. Leadership. Luck. Defense. Machines/Logistics (in our games, logistics and ballistae are mainly for sieges).
Yes, if you don't upgrade skills, the levels will be sufficient. But extra 3 levels invested in defense could be used for something more useful. However, sometimes there is no choice but to upgrade defense. For example, if nothing useful is offered except for it, or the level is so high that there is nothing left to upgrade except for it. If in your games the hero consistently reaches level 25+ (I was a bit hasty with 30+ :)), then defense "fits," but again, I would prefer education.
P.S. Does the Darkness skill help against mind control/berserk?
It only reduces the duration of spells. And you won't be able to cast berserk on Cyclops if the Darkness skill is more or less upgraded.
I once saw an interesting situation with Orc defenses... they used a hero and 600 Orc Warlords (those with shields) and positioned them near Liches. They had maxed out their readiness stat... and, by sheer luck (it usually doesn't work with high-level heroes), the Goblins took control. The opponent spent a long time figuring out what to use to defeat these Warlords. In the end, the Orcs won. It turns out that it's quite difficult to deal with these Warlords. They have Fury from the start, plus a bonus from the hero's attack, and they counter-attack first with double damage and gain even more Fury, dealing a lot of damage and wiping out many creatures, while the remaining ones don't do much damage to them.
I really like the Barbarians, and here's my setup when I play as them:
1) Attack – Barbarians need attack!
2) Machines – Ballista, Rapid Ballista, Tent (sometimes Catapult).
3) Luck – Resistance, Soldier's Luck, Barbarian Luck.
4) Logistics – Pathfinding, Path of War, Death Stride.
5) Battle Cry or Education – whatever I get!
Майор Вихрь
18 years ago
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A small adjustment:
If the game isn't short, then forget about machines. Leadership is extremely useful for a Barbarian; Orcs aren't known for their initiative, and positive morale allows troops to move more often. Not to mention the powerful skills "aura of speed" and "battle frenzy." In some cases, you can take diplomacy and empathy, especially relevant for Krag.
The "barbarian luck" skill doesn't work! No matter how high the luck stat, the damage is always reduced by 5%, which is extremely small and won't help at all against a Warlock. There's no need to invest in any luck skills at all; it's completely unnecessary.
The ballista should be combined with fire arrows; otherwise, the damage won't be impressive.
Loken
18 years ago
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I don't know, I don't know. Of course, in a particularly long game, machines will gradually lose some of their effectiveness, but they will help you navigate the map without major problems. I would take them in any case. And their damage is quite significant towards the end of the game. The Barbarian's attack also increases.
Игрок
18 years ago
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Leadership is a very useful skill for an Orc (Battle Frenzy with Bloodlust at 5 is helpful, and the Speed Aura combined with Tactics allows Cyclops to reach the opponent in one turn). Playing without it is detrimental. Therefore, the choice arises: take Battle Frenzy + Retribution or Fire Arrows with Ranged Attack. It is clear that the first combination is much more effective, and therefore, if we take Machines, we significantly weaken the army itself. In a quick game, this is more than compensated for, but in a long game...
Loken
18 years ago
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Yeah, what prevents us from using the scheme suggested above, but instead of "war cry/formation," we use "leadership + exhilaration," which is what an Orc needs? That's what I usually do.
Ereb
17 years ago
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I agree with some forum users that defense isn't very necessary for Orcs... because if a player focuses on defense, it means they know they're going to be attacked, and if an enemy attacks an Orc unit, they lose rage and take some damage... so the best defense for an Orc is ATTACK. IMHO :)
Cyrax
17 years ago
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I have a question:
Does the "Memory of Our Blood" skill (which grants 50-100 rage at the start of battle) work with a building in the town that grants 50 rage points? They don't seem to stack for me; the creatures only receive rage from the building in the town, i.e., 50 in total. Or has this been fixed in one of the patches?
Ereb
16 years ago
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..How much does this topic cost, and how can we enrich it with useful tips and ideas related to the topic? And what's the point if, for example, the "Call" skill is learned, and there's also the "Rage" skill! I never paid attention to this building because 50 points of rage isn't that much; I understand that if it gave 100 or 150, that would be a different story – it wouldn't be far to the first level of rage!...But nevertheless, this ability helps archers, for whom it's harder to accumulate rage:smile42:
_Prizrak_
16 years ago
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I have a question: Does the "Memory of Our Blood" skill (which grants 50-100 rage at the start of battle) work with the building in the town that grants 50 rage points? They don't seem to stack for me, and the creatures only receive rage from the town building, i.e., only 50. Or has this been fixed in one of the patches?
It works. Moreover, if you have 2 Orcish Castles, the bonus from the Castles will be 100 rage points, if 3, then 150, and so on. I can tell you about the late game. I always play with the same strategy, and I think it's the best. I play as Goshak. He's a good hero; he has a starting bonus, which makes clearing neutral creatures much easier. And his faction creatures are great. =) Now, to the point: 1. Logistics - up to Path of War. 2. Attack - Tactics, Retribution. 3. Leadership - Aura of Swiftness, Battle Fury. 4. Education (I try to get it, but it depends on luck) - Fire Fury. 5. Here, if the game is very long, you can take a filler skill, Defense, Luck, whatever you prefer. I don't take the racial skill "Strength Against Magic" because very few spells are learned, and the reduction is not significant. At least it saves a level. You need to take and fully upgrade the first 3 skills. Education, if it appears, great. If Education doesn't appear, and all 3 main skills are maxed out, I would take Defense. In general, this is a debatable skill. I only take it in the very late game.
