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Posts from Discussion about Dungeon (Dark Elves).

Dungeon
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Offline Shogun
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Posts: 200
#1005
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It seems that everyone agrees that Furies are a "first-strike weapon." However, many doubt their effectiveness in the late game. I'll try to dispel these doubts :D 1. Correct target selection: a) Eliminate or significantly reduce the number of unpleasant (dangerous) low/mid-level enemy creatures. b) Block powerful high-level creatures (while simultaneously attacking an adjacent stack of low-level troops or the blocked creature, depending on the situation) that can reach our ranks in one turn. 2. Correct hero build: Let's consider this statement using a battle against Demons as an example: 1. a) Imps (significantly saves mana) or Cerberi (depending on our reach). b) Block the Warhorses while simultaneously attacking them or an adjacent stack if it falls under option "a." The probability that at least one of the three priority targets will be within reach is over 90%. 2. Expert Unstoppable - Dark Ritual + Elemental Vision Attack before Retaliation Expert Luck Leadership up to Speed Aura Expert Education - With a high probability, we either deal double damage or manage to attack a second time. In any case, it will be painful and unpleasant for the enemy. - We force enemy units to cluster together. 3. Provides the opportunity: a) For Stalkers and Witches to retreat into invisibility without hindrance (without losses). b) For Raiders to survive until their turn (it will be painful and unpleasant for them). c) If we use Aces instead of Stalkers, we can eliminate 2-3 squads of high-level creatures, dealing 300-450 damage each. Furies certainly won't decide the outcome of the battle, but they should significantly ease the situation
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
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Offline Vayshan
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#1006
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It's a bit difficult to say who would lead... Unless the main character is Kifrah. Otherwise, everything is correct, although there are some caveats. Firstly, the demons will most likely be hidden further away. And secondly, the Inferno faction also has Cerberuses, and it's not smart to place them next to the horses because then the area of "coverage" is smaller. So, the Cerberuses could easily attack the Raiders... Although, in theory, it's difficult to predict what will happen on the battlefield. Nightmares could easily go down first, and then our Furies would be in trouble... But overall, the unit is useful, and no one disputes that, but in the final stages, they play the role of kamikazes.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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Offline Shogun
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#1007
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Vayshan;183627
It’s quite difficult to get Leadership... Unless it’s for the main hero, Kifrah.

And that’s exactly what I suggested – a build for Kifrah or Sorgall (he consistently gets Leadership by level 16).
Vayshan;183627
But overall, everything is correct, although there are some caveats. First, the Imps will most likely be hidden further away. And second, the Inferno faction also has Cerberuses, and it’s pointless to place them next to the Cavaliers because then the area of “coverage” is smaller. So, the Cerberuses can easily attack the raiders.... Although, in theory, it’s difficult to predict what will happen on the battlefield. Nightmares can easily go down first, and then our Furies will be in trouble.

Anything can happen, but the probability that the Inferno faction will have artifacts with a higher initiative (the artifact market rules) is quite high. And also, boots that give +1 to speed.
Vayshan;183627
But overall, the unit is useful, and no one disputes that, but in the final stages, they play the role of kamikazes.

Of course, they are kamikazes. The Inferno faction doesn’t have any units that can practically win a battle on their own, but they do have an anchor – Hydras, a finishing unit – Witches (upgraded), and two kamikaze units – Furies and Lizard Riders.
And the way the Inferno faction exchanges its kamikazes determines the course of the entire subsequent battle.
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
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Offline morealyz
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#1008
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Shogun;183636
I actually suggested a build for Kifrah or Sorgalla (he consistently gets leadership by level 16).
I'm sorry, but you're talking nonsense. Sorgalla cannot consistently get leadership. He gets this leadership with the same probability as all other Warlocks, which is 2%.
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Offline Shogun
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Posts: 200
#1009
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morealyz;183745
I apologize, but you are talking utter nonsense. Sorgall cannot be given leadership "consistently." He is given this leadership with the same probability as all other Warlocks, namely 2%.

You see,
There is theory, and there is practice.

In theory, the probability of obtaining each skill is the same for all heroes, but in practice, getting leadership by level 16 (and without disrupting the skill development plan) for Sorgall and Vaishanu is not the same.

For example, take the map "Dragon Passage" and run these heroes on it 5 times each. In reality, this doesn't take long – 2 weeks of development is more than enough. I think the result will surprise you.

Or another example.
I'm currently playing as Orcs. So, with Goshak, it is possible to develop to Supreme Archmage in more than 50% of cases, while with Krag, it only happened once.
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
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Offline UTER
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Posts: 544
#1010
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If you really want to focus on leadership, take the Sorceress with Minotaurs, and you won't have to worry. Plus, earning 250 gold per day from the start of the game is pretty good!
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Offline Loken
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Posts: 1,660
#1011
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you see, there's practice, there's theory, and then there's randomness;
and so what? let's say some skill can be acquired with a probability of as much as 90%. this absolutely doesn't mean that the hero will acquire this skill in ninety out of a hundred cases. he might not acquire it even once in years of playing, just as a 1% skill might drop every time. so all sorts of "tests," like - "running around the map with two heroes and comparing," have absolutely no practical basis. randomness rules everything, and that's it. if both Waishan and Sorgall have a 2% chance of getting leadership, but "Sorgall keeps getting it on the second level," then that's nothing more than just luck. although this probability can be somewhat increased by taking the most popular skills... but that, again, is a matter of chance.
Первый, кто был забанен за Правду.
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Offline Dracon Малласа
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#1012
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There are various options for the Town Portal (TP) skill, but why bother hoping for leadership to drop when it's more likely that the TP skill will be more useful? Luck with the TP skill is truly more important, and if you do take a skill with leadership, it's naturally better to take...
the aunt with the Minotaurs.
Yes, exactly her, her name is Kifra.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...
Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!
КИНО
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Offline Boris K
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Posts: 1,131
#1013
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Leadership doesn't negate luck in any way (I want both). Randomness sometimes turns everything upside down. Recently, in a HotS game with two friends, my Warlock reached level 12 and maxed out the Empathy skill. He received the Leadership skill almost immediately. But by level 16, he couldn't even get the basic Chaos skills. At the same time, he managed to capture an Orcish town. My friends each have one town so far. I just don't know when we'll finish this game, as one of my friends has left for a long time.
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Offline Cadawr
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Posts: 21
#1014
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Hello!
I like Furies at the beginning of the game – to capture mines. Then I sit defensively within my borders for a long time to gather Hydras. Thirty Hydras in an army allow you to clear the territory! Horsemen are quickly defeated, and their "bite" hardly works because the Horseman fights at the front (with a charge!) and the rest of the units are in the rear... By the way, "wild" Horsemen somehow fight more effectively than mine :( Witches and Sorceresses are weak, but they attack with a whip very aesthetically!
ТТ - титьки и террор!!!:smile14:
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Offline Хранитель заката
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#1015
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I like Furies at the beginning of the game – to capture mines. Then I sit within the borders for a long time, playing defensively, to gather Hydras.
Warlocks and Sorceresses are weak, but they attack with spells in a very aesthetically pleasing way!
Well, I do the exact opposite. Right now, I was playing a map as the Academy, and I cleared all the mines and territory using Furies, Stalkers, and Sorceresses. I didn't have to use Minotaurs, Hydras, or Champions. I built Minotaurs only at the very end. I don't understand the strategy of playing with Hydras at all; they never even reach the enemy, and the Riders are too fragile.
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Offline Boris K
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#1016
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By the time you build 30 Hydras, there will be nothing left to clear in a game against a human player. Riders paired with Furies work well against not-so-aggressive enemies like Earth Elementals. Riders can simply jump to the enemy instead of attacking. In the final stages, both units die quickly, but they deal significant damage.

The old Hydra upgrade might not even jump to neutral archers or sorcerers, but simply wait and regenerate while the hero attacks enemies with magic. When there are only a few enemies left, they will regenerate more than they will die.

Witches are also not bad. They may seem weak, but they have enough health. In the beginning of the 3rd mission of the original campaign, 2 witches without any losses can defeat 120 Furies.

Each unit can be useful in a specific situation.
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Offline Vayshan
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Posts: 873
#1017
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Cadawr;184615
Hello!
I like Furies at the beginning of the game – to capture mines. Then I sit for a long time and timidly within the borders to gather Hydras. Thirty Hydras in the army allow you to clear the territory! They quickly defeat Riders, and the "bite" hardly works because the Rider fights on the front line (and has a charge!), while the rest of the units are in the rearguard... By the way, "wild" Riders somehow fight more effectively than mine :( The Witch Archers and Sorceresses are pathetic, but they hit very aesthetically with their whip!
You need to maneuver with Riders against neutrals so that they take less damage (against slow units, it's generally not a problem at all). The "bite" is quite a powerful thing, as mentioned above, it's not necessary to attack at all; you can just run up, and then it's up to the Furies. Witch Archers and Sorceresses are pathetic? Well, you said it! They shoot so-so because of the penalty (but otherwise, their damage is quite decent for their level), and Sorcerers are, in my opinion, one of the best because they can both weaken the enemy and strengthen their own (of course, they need to be divided into two or three stacks).
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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Offline Loken
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#1018
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witches are good ranged attackers. I've always liked them.
But in the late game, it's no longer profitable to defend with hydras and cast spells, as there's an overpowered invisibility spell, with which having zero losses is not a problem, but a daily routine. This method, as you know, breaks through very, very much, and is quite effective, so you might not even have time to build cavalry when you're at the enemy castle's doorstep, let alone wait for 30 hydras.
Первый, кто был забанен за Правду.
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Offline Freud
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Posts: 1,356
#1021
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Okay. By the way, why are the Riders so weak? Two squads of 25 can easily take down Lancers (if they have healing potions). You need to build a pasture right away (as soon as you can). You should approach within 2 squares, and then charge.
Любовь и атомное оружие, братья, любовь и атомное оружие.
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