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Someone made a "championship" patch for SOD. Maybe we can find that person and ask them to edit the executable file again and add the desired button!
Dreamcatcher
Posts from The release date of the expansion pack is approaching.
invisible
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Perhaps RetroFM can help us with this. He's an old-school player, knows many of the "old" players, and seems willing to help, judging by the thread he created. We need to quickly transfer troops, split them into individual units, etc. Your homeland won't forget you.
Dirty_Player
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Fast troop exchange is a VERY important component of online games. I'm sure that many hundreds of players will be grateful to the person who can make this happen!
Someone made the "championship" patch for Stronghold. Maybe we can find that person and ask them to edit the executable file again, adding the desired button!
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It seems to me that raper wrote everything correctly.
This is my first post on the forum, but I read the entire thread and am familiar with both SoD and TE. I play with friends from time to time.
As I understand it, the skill level of players on this forum is lower than on the Heroes of Might and Magic forum. That is, if I want to play online, there's no point in going to the Heroes of Might and Magic forum. And in general, there's no one to play TE with.
Now, about what I read in raper's responses.
As I understand it: the players here aren't that skilled, so global changes like the Necropatch aren't needed. But some small but pleasant changes would be very welcome, like two new buildings and a great button. Classes are disabled in Ini, the rest is optional. And it seems like Dreamcatcher already has such a version. Please upload it somewhere and provide a link.
P.S. Which forum should I go to if I've only played with friends, so to speak, in our own little world?
invisible
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It will turn out to be just another amateur MOD. Many people who play online simply go to the store and buy a disc! They don't even know that some patch will exist...
The person who accomplishes this deserves a Nobel Prize!
To create version 3.2, you need to patch the previous version 3.1. As far as I know, many people do this! I don't see a difference between installing a patch that updates the version and installing a modification patch, which is what we are discussing now (I mean that it will simply be an addition that those who want can install, and those who don't want can continue clicking the mouse).
Dreamcatcher
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To be honest, I no longer want to compare TE to SOD. After playing both for a considerable amount of time, I have gained a lot of food for thought and analysis. And as a result, I realized that TE is better. It is what it is. I would be happy to discuss and argue each point of my conclusion.
ewgeniy
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TE is better. It is what it is. I would gladly discuss and argue each point of my conclusion.
no one said anything about better or worse. The point was that fathers play TE; it's a version for pros, and everyone else who doesn't want to understand this and still plays the old SOD while using a bunch of ridiculous rules and restrictions are just... well, you know.
ps and I don't want to discuss it – it just slipped out.
invisible
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To be honest, I no longer want to compare Heroes of Might and Magic V to Heroes of Might and Magic III. After playing both for a considerable amount of time, I have gained a lot of food for thought and analysis. And as a result, I realized that Heroes of Might and Magic V is better. It is what it is. I would be happy to discuss and argue each point of my conclusion.
Dreamcatcher
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Evgeny, Invis:
That is exactly why I want to talk about better/worse, because that hasn't been addressed. And it is a very important point. The premise that amateurs play SoD while professionals play TE is inherently wrong. Take two of the most famous SoD resources, and we see how great the skill of SoD players who approach the game professionally is. It is a different matter that TE was created specifically for professionals — that is a fact. But not all professionals appreciated TE, and in my opinion, one of the reasons is the aggressive implementation of TE. Relying on the "lamerism" of SoD players. At least, that's how it was here in my presence when the army of Bay-ists and Portal-ists began to actively participate in the forum. I was also at a meeting with players from Michurinsk-Tambov and heard a story that TE had already been implemented there, and many pros had the chance to evaluate it in action. But something didn't click. Apparently, they didn't like it again. But I have never encountered specific, reasoned conclusions as to why TE is worse anywhere.
Therefore, I want to move away, if possible, from subjective assessments of like/dislike, because in my humble opinion, it is more useful to choose a game based on objective assessments of better/worse.
I will break it down by the most obvious differences.
1) The second level of troops is built at the start, and the starting hero has three stacks of troops. The problem of a weak start is solved. Now weak and medium blocks can be breached because a strike stack is guaranteed. Even Pikemen and Lorelei, arriving with three stacks of special troops, don't look so doomed. Fewer rests or losses. Moreover, mastering a heavy respawn is no longer as tedious a task as it was in SoD with a Valeska without archers. Is this good or bad?
2) The building tree and construction costs in some castles have been changed. Cyclopes have returned to the game; building Mages and Liches is not as nerve-wracking an endeavor as it often was in SoD. Necromancy has been cut — the selectable starting hero has returned, usually Galtran. An excellent alternative to Shakti. Upgraded vampires have returned. A new strong hero has appeared for the Barbarian — Tiraxor, who receives an upgraded strike stack of wolves on the first day. A third hero capable of breaking a minimum consu on the first day. Good or bad?
3) The ability to disable native secondary skills — any comments?
4) A bank that allows you to borrow a missing unit of some resource or money before a decisive battle. In the first case, it saves you from a force majeure collapse; in the second, you can mobilize your army at the right moment, for example, before taking Utopia or the FB. Good or bad?
5) Reworking of the Mage Guild. Less hassle in searching for the required spells. As a rule, in FB both heroes have all the necessary lower-level spells.
6) Individual experience for the hero's troops. A very useful feature when you give your army to a noob to repel a medusa nest or even a conserve. Remember, were there unnecessary losses of a good army due to noobs? Now, with a leveled-up army, even a noob fights neutrals at a decent level.
7) Moving spells between floors and schools. The main stumbling block. As a rule, whenever TE is criticized, this exact point is mentioned. But the solution is fair; the schools are more balanced. Now Water and Fire, as the rarest leveling schools, increase in value due to DD and TP. As for Slow being on the second floor, it's not a problem; that floor is often built in the second week.
8) The army exchange button — I mean, how much more can we talk about it :D
9) A reserve 8th stack for tactician heroes. Now you don't have to drag a lackey behind him, giving him shooters before taking Utopia or a hive. The main thing is, when losing/transferring, don't forget about this backup squad!
10) The ability to disable neutral morale or an upgraded stack. Reduces the risk of losing in a "on the edge" battle. Chess-like calculation rules!
11) Hero classes. Some unpopular skills have returned to the game, which, in a certain combination, give the hero additional bonuses. Personally, I didn't feel a noticeable improvement in the game from this, so whether it's good or bad — I don't know. Probably good.
In other words, the common thread is the specific tuning of TE for human-vs-human play. The only argument against that I find myself is that neutrals have been turned into a formality. I agree that a player who can manage dangerous situations with morale is a skilled master. This mastery is much less required in TE. But again, this fits the idea of fighting a human, for why spend strength and nerves fighting a respawn if the main opponent is a human. Moreover, if there is a desire to play not only against a human, there is 8mm6 and bots that get stronger every day, specifically to complicate the situation. That's cooler than morale in a dwarf nest. Those wanting a thrill can play exactly in this mode.
And finally, a summary — TE is an evolving game, which means the skill of playing can grow along with the development of the game itself. The same can no longer be said about SoD. Now I would like to hear the opinion of the leading players of our site on what they believe are the shortcomings of TE. Moreover, in an objective form, not "Slow on the second floor sucks" but "this is bad because 1)..2)..3)..
That is exactly why I want to talk about better/worse, because that hasn't been addressed. And it is a very important point. The premise that amateurs play SoD while professionals play TE is inherently wrong. Take two of the most famous SoD resources, and we see how great the skill of SoD players who approach the game professionally is. It is a different matter that TE was created specifically for professionals — that is a fact. But not all professionals appreciated TE, and in my opinion, one of the reasons is the aggressive implementation of TE. Relying on the "lamerism" of SoD players. At least, that's how it was here in my presence when the army of Bay-ists and Portal-ists began to actively participate in the forum. I was also at a meeting with players from Michurinsk-Tambov and heard a story that TE had already been implemented there, and many pros had the chance to evaluate it in action. But something didn't click. Apparently, they didn't like it again. But I have never encountered specific, reasoned conclusions as to why TE is worse anywhere.
Therefore, I want to move away, if possible, from subjective assessments of like/dislike, because in my humble opinion, it is more useful to choose a game based on objective assessments of better/worse.
I will break it down by the most obvious differences.
1) The second level of troops is built at the start, and the starting hero has three stacks of troops. The problem of a weak start is solved. Now weak and medium blocks can be breached because a strike stack is guaranteed. Even Pikemen and Lorelei, arriving with three stacks of special troops, don't look so doomed. Fewer rests or losses. Moreover, mastering a heavy respawn is no longer as tedious a task as it was in SoD with a Valeska without archers. Is this good or bad?
2) The building tree and construction costs in some castles have been changed. Cyclopes have returned to the game; building Mages and Liches is not as nerve-wracking an endeavor as it often was in SoD. Necromancy has been cut — the selectable starting hero has returned, usually Galtran. An excellent alternative to Shakti. Upgraded vampires have returned. A new strong hero has appeared for the Barbarian — Tiraxor, who receives an upgraded strike stack of wolves on the first day. A third hero capable of breaking a minimum consu on the first day. Good or bad?
3) The ability to disable native secondary skills — any comments?
4) A bank that allows you to borrow a missing unit of some resource or money before a decisive battle. In the first case, it saves you from a force majeure collapse; in the second, you can mobilize your army at the right moment, for example, before taking Utopia or the FB. Good or bad?
5) Reworking of the Mage Guild. Less hassle in searching for the required spells. As a rule, in FB both heroes have all the necessary lower-level spells.
6) Individual experience for the hero's troops. A very useful feature when you give your army to a noob to repel a medusa nest or even a conserve. Remember, were there unnecessary losses of a good army due to noobs? Now, with a leveled-up army, even a noob fights neutrals at a decent level.
7) Moving spells between floors and schools. The main stumbling block. As a rule, whenever TE is criticized, this exact point is mentioned. But the solution is fair; the schools are more balanced. Now Water and Fire, as the rarest leveling schools, increase in value due to DD and TP. As for Slow being on the second floor, it's not a problem; that floor is often built in the second week.
8) The army exchange button — I mean, how much more can we talk about it :D
9) A reserve 8th stack for tactician heroes. Now you don't have to drag a lackey behind him, giving him shooters before taking Utopia or a hive. The main thing is, when losing/transferring, don't forget about this backup squad!
10) The ability to disable neutral morale or an upgraded stack. Reduces the risk of losing in a "on the edge" battle. Chess-like calculation rules!
11) Hero classes. Some unpopular skills have returned to the game, which, in a certain combination, give the hero additional bonuses. Personally, I didn't feel a noticeable improvement in the game from this, so whether it's good or bad — I don't know. Probably good.
In other words, the common thread is the specific tuning of TE for human-vs-human play. The only argument against that I find myself is that neutrals have been turned into a formality. I agree that a player who can manage dangerous situations with morale is a skilled master. This mastery is much less required in TE. But again, this fits the idea of fighting a human, for why spend strength and nerves fighting a respawn if the main opponent is a human. Moreover, if there is a desire to play not only against a human, there is 8mm6 and bots that get stronger every day, specifically to complicate the situation. That's cooler than morale in a dwarf nest. Those wanting a thrill can play exactly in this mode.
And finally, a summary — TE is an evolving game, which means the skill of playing can grow along with the development of the game itself. The same can no longer be said about SoD. Now I would like to hear the opinion of the leading players of our site on what they believe are the shortcomings of TE. Moreover, in an objective form, not "Slow on the second floor sucks" but "this is bad because 1)..2)..3)..
vbn
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No, that won't work... I'm not against TE at all, but I don't see any point in discussing what's better or worse, because it's essentially a completely different game... the structure and mechanics of the game itself have been changed compared to SOD (except perhaps for point 8)... and therefore, it really is a matter of personal preference... I personally prefer SOD... what else is there to discuss when all of this has been debated so much already... invisible is right...
AndreyALN
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well, as always, there were no worthy objections; since June, i.e., for 4 months, i'll probably tell a story anyway, even though no one writes anything:D :
i don't even remember how, but i ended up on one site (but Heroes isn't the main game there, just for fun), there are few real Heroes players, mostly just chatterers, but they held a tournament and liked it, and wanted to do it again, and around that time I joined, and suggested TE. As always, there were those who, without even looking, shouted that it was terrible, that they only play SoD, but there were also curious ones. Yes, a lot of time was spent, and I had to help EVERYONE with the installation and show them how to use all these buttons. I had to disable classes, experience, and taxes to increase interest and for a more equal game = smooth transition = adaptation. In my opinion, this is the only radical difference between TE and SoD; everything else is just an improvement of SoD + the removal of all sorts of random events and luck (like morale). And the time spent - I don't understand why it's not a pity. Because the most annoying thing is that you play for an entire game week, it's a very long game, you scout, find resources, and on the 7th day, you rush to a resource (sometimes this is the only goal of the campaign, which means a sacrifice in something else), you take it, and you see that the generator didn't put in as much as it usually does, and you are missing 1 or 2 units of the resource, and sometimes even gold. And that's it:smile11:. In a game between equal players, 2 extra units of a 6th-level resource, or a 7th-level resource:smile03:, or a Stronghold, or a Castle, depending on the difficulty level and strategic plan - this is a critical advantage, which makes it pointless to continue playing, even though most players don't think so at the moment (they think they might get lucky later:)).
This will never happen in TE, so the game won't lose interest after the first week, and no time will be wasted + it will fix the situation with a slightly less successful resource spawn at the beginning.
And people immediately understood that there was no need to come up with a bunch of rules and restrictions (heroes, magic, skills). In short, play however you want; restrictions always depress and oppress, and frankly, sometimes you take a hero not because of the starting magic, but because of the starting 2 skills, and here, suddenly, there's a ban because of their magic:(. And people started spending less time on turns and were more willing to split their units into single units.
And those who said it was terrible at the beginning started recommending it to other new players who wanted to participate but didn't want to because of TE, and they helped with explanations and objective advice.
I'm writing all this to say that you shouldn't be afraid to lose at the beginning: we all lost, and more than once, and even when we only played SoD, there isn't a single pro who hasn't lost, so don't be afraid to lose the first or second game after switching from SoD to TE. Then, victories will follow. And you can find someone just like you: someone who has never played TE before, and play with them; it will be even more interesting, and it's more fun to learn together, and no one will say: "it's not fair, I lost because it's my first time playing TE."
And after a few games, not one or two, you can go to this thread and say that TE is bad, because of this and that, I played 10 times, and I didn't like it:D because of this, but otherwise, there's nothing to say.
Of those people from the story, I don't know anyone who would then go back to playing only SoD; but at the same time, most of them always disable: taxes, experience, and classes, and with a slightly changed price and some increase, you get used to it quickly, and even when they ask about the difference between TE and SoD, you forget to mention it. This is a small price to pay for getting another Castle, Elay (Conflux), and the ability to play with it and any hero.
And here's my favorite advantage that I forgot to mention in my poll, Dreamcatcher:
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE VERSION:smile03:, asking: "So, what? What are we playing, 3.1, 3.2, 4.0, 3.58:smile11: :smile32:?"
I hate the time limit on forums
i don't even remember how, but i ended up on one site (but Heroes isn't the main game there, just for fun), there are few real Heroes players, mostly just chatterers, but they held a tournament and liked it, and wanted to do it again, and around that time I joined, and suggested TE. As always, there were those who, without even looking, shouted that it was terrible, that they only play SoD, but there were also curious ones. Yes, a lot of time was spent, and I had to help EVERYONE with the installation and show them how to use all these buttons. I had to disable classes, experience, and taxes to increase interest and for a more equal game = smooth transition = adaptation. In my opinion, this is the only radical difference between TE and SoD; everything else is just an improvement of SoD + the removal of all sorts of random events and luck (like morale). And the time spent - I don't understand why it's not a pity. Because the most annoying thing is that you play for an entire game week, it's a very long game, you scout, find resources, and on the 7th day, you rush to a resource (sometimes this is the only goal of the campaign, which means a sacrifice in something else), you take it, and you see that the generator didn't put in as much as it usually does, and you are missing 1 or 2 units of the resource, and sometimes even gold. And that's it:smile11:. In a game between equal players, 2 extra units of a 6th-level resource, or a 7th-level resource:smile03:, or a Stronghold, or a Castle, depending on the difficulty level and strategic plan - this is a critical advantage, which makes it pointless to continue playing, even though most players don't think so at the moment (they think they might get lucky later:)).
This will never happen in TE, so the game won't lose interest after the first week, and no time will be wasted + it will fix the situation with a slightly less successful resource spawn at the beginning.
And people immediately understood that there was no need to come up with a bunch of rules and restrictions (heroes, magic, skills). In short, play however you want; restrictions always depress and oppress, and frankly, sometimes you take a hero not because of the starting magic, but because of the starting 2 skills, and here, suddenly, there's a ban because of their magic:(. And people started spending less time on turns and were more willing to split their units into single units.
And those who said it was terrible at the beginning started recommending it to other new players who wanted to participate but didn't want to because of TE, and they helped with explanations and objective advice.
I'm writing all this to say that you shouldn't be afraid to lose at the beginning: we all lost, and more than once, and even when we only played SoD, there isn't a single pro who hasn't lost, so don't be afraid to lose the first or second game after switching from SoD to TE. Then, victories will follow. And you can find someone just like you: someone who has never played TE before, and play with them; it will be even more interesting, and it's more fun to learn together, and no one will say: "it's not fair, I lost because it's my first time playing TE."
And after a few games, not one or two, you can go to this thread and say that TE is bad, because of this and that, I played 10 times, and I didn't like it:D because of this, but otherwise, there's nothing to say.
Of those people from the story, I don't know anyone who would then go back to playing only SoD; but at the same time, most of them always disable: taxes, experience, and classes, and with a slightly changed price and some increase, you get used to it quickly, and even when they ask about the difference between TE and SoD, you forget to mention it. This is a small price to pay for getting another Castle, Elay (Conflux), and the ability to play with it and any hero.
And here's my favorite advantage that I forgot to mention in my poll, Dreamcatcher:
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE VERSION:smile03:, asking: "So, what? What are we playing, 3.1, 3.2, 4.0, 3.58:smile11: :smile32:?"
I hate the time limit on forums
Dreamcatcher
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At my request, the topic was retrieved from the "Trash" :D I realized a bit late that I was working on something similar to the current "TE Light," and I wanted to give the link to Viku, but the topic was gone :confused:
In general, in light of the upcoming real tournament with a $100,000 prize, I'm bringing up the topic. Perhaps it will be useful for the organizers to familiarize themselves with another thread of discussions, clashes, and arguments, in order to avoid similar situations in the future.
I reread the entire topic, and in light of recent events, I'm making generally positive conclusions. The approximation of TE to SOD was perceived pessimistically by many, but today the issue has already been resolved, and a TE Light version has been created for practical application :smile02: History has put everything in its place!
P.S. And somewhere there was a topic "Voting on TE settings" - useful information for the developers of the hybrid version, I can't find it either, moderators, please look for it :)
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and it wouldn't be bad to remove all the new images from the Town Editor, leaving only the classic ones.
AndreyALN
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The only thing I didn't like is the shift towards a patch or mod-like approach. It seems like we need to maintain both the main game and a "lite" version. I hope that in the future, the main game will have an option like a "lite" mode, or several options for some conservative players: for example, not knowing the number of slots and units for the starting hero; maybe you'll get lucky and have a level 1 and 2 dwelling while your opponent only has 1 :D; banning Solmyr (and others), or this Solmyr won't level up beyond level 3, like in the campaign where they limit the maximum experience; I want a slowdown on the first floor, etc.
Дубровин Павел
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Regarding TE, at some point, I realized that the ability for creatures to gain experience, which I had previously considered a plus, gradually became a drawback. I can't really say why, it's just a feeling... I couldn't get used to it...
I accepted the other innovations of TE well.
I would remove the bank, though...
This is my opinion about TE.
I accepted the other innovations of TE well.
I would remove the bank, though...
This is my opinion about TE.
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