Your favorite and least favorite monsters in Heroes. — General

maNiT

6/30/2006 9:51 AM UTC

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Varg-Nar

First of all, the Elven Castle isn't that cheap; building and upgrading dragons costs a lot... And as for your tier 3 archer scale, it's not correctly compiled. ;)

It's expensive, I agree, but cheaper than the Necropolis.
And regarding the scale, it's easy to say that it's incorrect and unconvincing, but I've seen the damage of tier 3 archers on the website and checked it with a friend.

Любовь которая ежедневно не возраждается, ежедневно умирает.(с)

In reply to maNiT

Varg-Nar

6/30/2006 2:41 PM UTC

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Message from maNiT
It’s expensive, I agree, but cheaper than the Undead.
And regarding the scale, it’s easy to say that it’s wrong, unconvincing, but I saw the damage of the archers on the website and checked it with a friend.

Could you actually justify your answer regarding the "expensiveness"? Calculate how many resources are spent on fully building a Necropolis and a Sylvani, and compare them. I can do it if you want...

You want proof, here you go. I don’t just talk, I also do. The table below shows the data that was calculated for all archers. The calculation took into account that the creature being attacked by the archer has no defense (i.e., has a defense skill equal to 0, which doesn’t actually exist, but can be achieved with a spell, but that’s not important, I had to put everyone under the same framework to calculate, so I took 0). And don’t judge me too harshly, I tried.:)

And in general, I like the units for Inferno, especially the Devil. I don’t even need to mention Sylvani, I like them because there should be many good units in a castle, which the Sylvani race demonstrates!:)

Делай вещи, дела-делай вещи и не залипай!8)

celt

6/30/2006 5:56 PM UTC

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A large number is good! It doesn't matter who! In Heroes of Might and Magic III, Dryads were powerful because there were many of them!

Скоро! Всем ждать! Они явятся!:smile20:

In reply to Varg-Nar

***JOKER***

6/30/2006 6:52 PM UTC

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Varg-Nar

Could you actually justify your answer regarding the "high cost"? Calculate how many resources are needed to fully build a Necropolis and a Sylvan, and compare them. I can do it if you want...

It would be good to know... ;) I think that Sylvan, (!) if (!) more expensive, then not by much. The developers aren't fools to make one castle much more expensive than another; this would create an imbalance. Besides, Necropolis is already strong, so making their castle cheap wouldn't make sense.

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RomaShSh

6/30/2006 7:37 PM UTC

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I like: Dragons, liches, vampires, Death Knights. I hate: Druids (fighting them is a pain!!!), Elementals... especially water elementals in Heroes of Might and Magic IV!

In reply to Varg-Nar

maNiT

7/3/2006 7:53 AM UTC

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Hehe, you really made me laugh with that table. The calculation is for a single unit!!! As a player, you shouldn't even have shown this link. It's about the weekly increase and the corresponding damage of the troops per week. In this case, shooting Titans 2 - Archers 14 = damage. Of course, a Titan is stronger; no table is needed for that because a Titan is a level 7 unit, and an archer is a level 3 unit. :)
I'll try to find a link to the complete calculation with formulas. I can't promise, as it was a while ago, but I'll try because we didn't calculate it so thoroughly ourselves; we mostly tested it in practice. If I have time, I'll calculate it at home today, including for the ranged units in Heroes 5.
If I was too abrupt anywhere, I'm sorry; I didn't mean to offend anyone or belittle anyone's work. :(

Uuuuy.....I couldn't find that website with the calculations, but I found a good forum about Heroes 5 with a mathematical focus. :)

Added after 1 hour 41 minutes
Comparison of the average damage dealt by various ranged units in the amount of the weekly increase to monsters with a defense of 4/12/20:
Improved Archer - 99/76/58,
Fanatic - 92/66/52,
Evil Eye - 72/53/42,
Medusa-Queen - 72/53/42,
Lizardman Warrior - 42/33/25,
Magog - 73/56/43,
Powerful Lich - 150/109/86,
Master Gremlin - 48/38/28,
Archmage - 89/64/51,
Titan - 200/160/120,
Storm Elemental - 75/55/43,
Ice Elemental - 72/54/42.
Grand Elves - 140/104/81.
With the Sniper skill at the expert level, - 196/155/121, which puts them in 2nd place in terms of damage.
Sorry, I made a slight mistake in my previous statement. Well, it turns out that Grand Elves are 4th on the list, not 8th, right? And the fact that I said they were 2nd was a mistake in calculating the shooting skill. :(
It turns out:
1. Titan
2. Cyclops
3. Lich
4. Grand Elf

Любовь которая ежедневно не возраждается, ежедневно умирает.(с)

celt

7/5/2006 4:50 AM UTC

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2 Varg-Nar
Why do your Lizard Warriors in the table have damage ranging from 2 to 5? They should have 2-3...
And they are the worst archers in the game!

Скоро! Всем ждать! Они явятся!:smile20:

In reply to celt

maNiT

7/5/2006 5:34 AM UTC

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by the way, I forgot to mention that the Lich has a calculation that it attacks 2 targets, so if it attacks a single target, the Grand Elf comes in 3rd place.

2celt
he made a mistake, it's not a big deal, but the worst archers are actually the Gremlin Masters.

Любовь которая ежедневно не возраждается, ежедневно умирает.(с)

celt

7/5/2006 6:12 AM UTC

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About 30 gremlins appear per week... And when hiring a new hero, there are usually around 40... Let's calculate...

Скоро! Всем ждать! Они явятся!:smile20:

In reply to celt

maNiT

7/5/2006 6:20 AM UTC

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celt

Only about 30 gremlins arrive per week... And when hiring a new hero, it's usually around 40... Let's calculate...

Why can't you calculate it yourself? I don't like empty words, and hiring a hero has never been included in the calculation of the number of units. Only the weekly increase and the amount of damage they can inflict are counted. Varg-Nag (sorry for using Russian letters) may have compiled the damage table a little incorrectly, but he still said and did something, which means he understands the game and can be useful to the forum and new players. Anyone can shout calculate; draw conclusions and reconsider your point of view towards the people around you (in this case, regarding the forum).

Любовь которая ежедневно не возраждается, ежедневно умирает.(с)

celt

7/5/2006 6:29 AM UTC

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2 maNiT
Sorry if I offended you in any way; selecting an army for a hero and transferring it to another is a standard move at the beginning of any game... And lizards aren't particularly strong, although they might be better than goblins, but they're definitely not better than Gogs!

Скоро! Всем ждать! Они явятся!:smile20:

In reply to celt

maNiT

7/5/2006 6:43 AM UTC

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celt

2 maNiT
Sorry if I offended you in any way, selecting an army from one hero and transferring it to another is a standard move at the start of any game... And lizards aren't particularly strong, although they might be better than gremlins, but definitely not better than gogs!

well it's clear that you hire a second hero, but:
1.there's no money (since on King difficulty 500-1000 gold is given at the start if you chose gold, otherwise zero) due to terrible map RNG and a small amount of gold.
2.there is no hero in the tavern who has gremlins available; I don't remember his name, the one with the gargoyle skill.
and you say it's standard in any game, as you can see not in every single one.
and as for the damage of Lizards and Gogs, it's clear that gogs are better, they hit multiple targets and their attack and damage are higher (if my memory serves me right)

Любовь которая ежедневно не возраждается, ежедневно умирает.(с)

celt

7/5/2006 6:45 AM UTC

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Yeah, and you can't immediately hire or build anything on the Lizard King's castle... We could argue about this for a long time...

Скоро! Всем ждать! Они явятся!:smile20:

In reply to celt

maNiT

7/5/2006 7:30 AM UTC

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celt

Yeah, and you can't just hire a Lizard King immediately or build one... You could argue about this for a long time...

so what are we talking about, unit efficiency or their strength relative to each other?:))
if it's about strength, then lizards are indisputably better.
if it's about efficiency, I probably won't give preference to either, because I never play as either of them. I can't bring myself to play them; starting with the swamp or titans, my morale is low from the start... the swamp because I don't like their Castle, units, or heroes. Titans because it's unpleasant to realize that after losing in a three-way, for almost 7 years I've been taking the strongest Castle, so I mostly play only as elves or humans. I guess I have some foul principle regarding titans:\

Любовь которая ежедневно не возраждается, ежедневно умирает.(с)

In reply to maNiT

Varg-Nar

7/5/2006 6:14 PM UTC

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Hey maNiT, I didn't understand what you were saying about the weekly increase, sorry! ;) And regarding the Lizard Warriors, they have 2-5 damage (upgraded) and 2-3 (not upgraded). Or does someone else have different values?:confused:

Делай вещи, дела-делай вещи и не залипай!8)