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Posts from Timy vs. Gur

Everything about everything. Closed Topic
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Offline Agilist
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Posts: 342
#1
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PLEASE, NO ONE BUT THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE DEBATE SHOULD POST ANYTHING HERE!
Topic: Does love or money rule the world?
Timy is trying to prove that it's money.
Gur is trying to prove that it's love.
Please behave respectfully and with dignity, as this is just a game :).
Умирает не тот, кто устал, а тот, кто остановился.
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Offline Тими
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#2
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I was honestly stunned when I saw my name in the thread, but then I kind of understood.
2 Agilist: You could have at least sent me a private message; my poor, dead heart couldn't handle the shock.
2 Gur:
Does love or money move the world?
My point of view is that it's money. I'll explain why:
All civilizations throughout history have thrived thanks to trade and monetary relations. The connection between civilizations was maintained through trade routes. Scientists, merchants, explorers, spies, and many other people traveled (sailed/rode) along these routes. Money motivated people to discover new routes, which led to the appearance of new lands on maps (Examples: Columbus and the discovery of America, Cortes and the exploration of the jungles of South America).
And love is just a feeling. It's not worth mentioning the myth of the titan Prometheus, who, out of love for people and helping them, was chained to a mountain for eternal torment. It's just a myth. Feelings dull the mind, and the mind moves the world.
P.S. Due to work, I won't be around until Friday (I might appear earlier).
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Offline Гур
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#5
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Dear Timi! Before we continue our discussion, let's clarify the terms: what is love, and what is money? I look forward to your reply. Sincerely, Gur
"Пришел, увидел и пропил..."

Хай Гурий Слесарь
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Offline Тими
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#6
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I'm online (though in a train car on a shift bus, in the steppe). Dear Gur! I believe that love is the expression of feelings towards someone (or something), and money is material wealth. Is that okay?
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Offline Гур
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#7
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Dear Timi, Let's continue discussing the terms. Your definitions of love and money are certainly good. However, in my opinion, there is some inaccuracy (omission, error?) in them. For example, you say that love is the expression of feelings. Hence, my first question: can every expression of feelings be called love? Furthermore, you say that money is material value. Hence, my second question: is every material value money? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this. Sincerely, Gur
"Пришел, увидел и пропил..."

Хай Гурий Слесарь
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Offline Тими
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#8
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Dear Gur!
Let's continue discussing the terms. Your definitions of love and money are certainly good.
Thank you.
However, in my opinion, there is some inaccuracy (omission, error?) in them.
It was an omission because I had a poor network connection. I was at work (in the steppe, and it's not easy to catch a satellite signal), so I had to write quickly and to the point.
Hence my first question: can every manifestation of feelings be called love?
I believe that the manifestation of positive feelings can be called love. I consider positive feelings to be: compassion, mercy, care, etc.
Further, you say that money is material wealth. Hence the second question: is every material value money?
It depends on what is meant by material wealth. If it's a house, apartment, or car, then yes, they are material values. But if it's the body or other things that are not only material values but also spiritual for someone, then perhaps they are not money. There are things that are priceless. Although, in our time... Sincerely, Timi
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Offline Гур
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#9
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Dear Timi, Based on what you said in messages 4 and 6, love is the expression of positive feelings towards someone (or something). Did I understand you correctly? Let's set aside the discussion about the term "money" for now. And let's define what is meant by the phrase "to make the world go round." Obviously, these two words are not taken in their literal meaning. That is, we are not talking about what is the driving force of the Earth from a physics point of view, but rather trying to understand what is the fundamental motive behind human actions. What am I getting at? Can we say that the essence of our dispute lies in determining what is the main motive behind human actions? Sincerely, Gur
"Пришел, увидел и пропил..."

Хай Гурий Слесарь
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Offline Тими
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#10
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Dear Gur!
Based on what you said in messages 4 and 6, love is the expression of positive feelings towards someone (or something). Did I understand you correctly?
I think so.
Can we say that the essence of our dispute lies in determining what is the main motive behind human actions?
Absolutely. Human actions, development, improvement, progress in general. Sincerely, Timi.
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Offline Гур
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#11
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Dear Timi, I have another question regarding your definition of love. Is every manifestation of positive feelings love? Anticipating your answer, I will offer my version of what love is. In my opinion, love is an attitude towards someone (or something) as if they were important (valuable) to us. Let me explain: there is an expression, for example, like "loving football." What does "loving football" mean? It means treating this sport as something significant to us, something that interests us regardless of how this attitude manifests itself (I mean, whether we are fans or we play the game ourselves). Therefore, the question is: do you agree with my definition of love? Now, about money. Money, in my opinion, is everything (absolutely everything) that can be exchanged for what we need, what is valuable to us. Do you agree with this definition of "money"? Sincerely, Gur
"Пришел, увидел и пропил..."

Хай Гурий Слесарь
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Offline Тими
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#12
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Dear Gur!
Once again, a question about the definition of love that you proposed. Is every manifestation of positive feelings love?
I think so.
Anticipating your answer, I will offer my version of what love is.
In my opinion, love is an attitude towards someone (or something) as something important (valuable) to us. Let me explain: there is such an expression, for example, as "loving football." And what does "loving football" mean? It means treating this sport as something significant to us, something that interests us regardless of how this attitude manifests itself (I mean, whether we are fans or we play the game ourselves).
Therefore, the question is: do you agree with my definition of love?
I guess so.
Now about money. Money, in my opinion, is everything (absolutely everything) that can be exchanged for what we need, what is valuable to us.
Do you agree with this definition of "money"?
There are many caveats.

Sincerely, Timi.
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Offline Гур
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#13
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Dear Timi, Please explain where exactly I made a mistake in defining money. Sincerely, Gur
"Пришел, увидел и пропил..."

Хай Гурий Слесарь
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Offline Тими
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#14
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Dear Gur!
Please explain where exactly I made a mistake in defining money.
You didn't make a mistake. I wrote:
There are many caveats.
Because your definition is somewhat vague.
Money, in my opinion, is everything (absolutely everything) that can be exchanged for what we need, what is valuable to us.
I don't think so. Many things that are not related to money can be substituted for your definition. "Money is a means to achieve material goods" if you combine this definition with yours, then I will agree with the definition. Sincerely, Timi
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Offline Гур
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#15
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Dear Timi, I absolutely agree with you that my definition of money turned out to be somewhat vague. It became so because I tried to reflect the ESSENCE of money as clearly as possible. However, I believe that your definition ("money is a means to achieve material goods") is more acceptable in this regard. The only thing is, I have a question: is money a means to achieve ONLY material goods? I don't think so. Let me explain: for example, when we pay a certain amount for a theater ticket, we are not acquiring something material, but rather something spiritual. Therefore, I suggest slightly adjusting your definition: money is a means to achieve something. Thus, we have: 1) Love is an attitude towards someone (something) as important (valuable) to us. 2) Money is a means to achieve something. Do you agree with this? Sincerely, Gur
"Пришел, увидел и пропил..."

Хай Гурий Слесарь
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Offline Гур
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#17
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Dear Timi, Let's analyze the definitions of love and money that we have derived. As we remember, we need to determine what is the reason for any action, or, in other words, what is the fundamental motive for human actions. Money is merely a MEANS by which we achieve something. But it is not the fundamental reason (motivating factor) for human actions. When we earn money, we earn it not for the sake of the money itself, but for the sake of the benefits that can be acquired with that money. Therefore, money cannot be the fundamental motive for human actions, which means that money does not "make the world go round." Refute my words. Sincerely, Gur
"Пришел, увидел и пропил..."

Хай Гурий Слесарь
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