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Alex_R
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I was playing an online duel in Heroes 3 – naturally, I saved the game.
After the game (while reviewing the saves), many questions arose...
For example, take a look at the attached saves... look at the red player's (Shakti) actions on turns 8-9. What is this? Luck!? or a pre-planned direction of movement? Share your opinion... why would the main hero run, without scouting, into a swamp on the edge of the map (into the darkness)...?
If, for some reason, you don't want to express your opinion in this thread, I've created a poll for you (private), meaning others won't see which option you voted for. You can also write to me in PM or ICQ 466-212-416 Thank you in advance!
I don't know what was in the deleted messages, but...
the issue of adding a third option to the voting was being resolved in the deleted messages...; So, this issue is not closed yet.
Enough opinions have already been expressed publicly + those who replied to me in PM or ICQ, so I suggest announcing the opponent's nickname on March 15, 2008, and let him comment on it if he wants. It's strange that he hasn't noticed this topic yet.
Sergei, do you have to discuss this with everyone? For example, I don't really care – I play for fun, and therefore I don't even look at saves, except when I'm writing a report. But when I played with one friend, in Might and Magic, in 4 weeks he built the entire Inferno Castle, I had 3 Swamps, all without Hydras, and I barely won (the guy plays much worse than me). I suspected something was wrong, looked at the save – he just had a million of everything. Of course, it's not scary, but if you play to win, it's annoying (probably).
No, that's not what I meant, Zhenya. I look at saves myself (although not always anymore, because I don't have enough time). But I do it solely to learn how to play. When there are a million of all resources, that's one thing, but when a person has suspicions in every game, that's another. I'm not justifying anyone in any way. I'm just saying that when it's just a suspicion, it's better to keep it to yourself for the time being, but when it happens repeatedly, you can ask and make a rule. I once read a game analysis. There were also suspicious moves, he went in that direction, ended up in the right place at the right time, which led to a win. They started analyzing it, but then one well-known top player looked at the saves and said that he would have done the same. There's also such a thing as a "gut feeling" that develops stronger and stronger as you improve your game. And what seems impossible to an average player is quite normal for a pro. In a recent game, I found myself in a situation where I came through a secondary path directly to the opponent's Castle, and the main hero was inside, and part of the troops hadn't been bought back. What would the author of the topic say after that?! Would he also create a topic inviting everyone to criticize me?! How did that happen?! Did I look at the map?! But in reality, I broke through the guard and spotted some blue units moving back and forth, and I chose the right direction based on the hero's location. And the fact that the main hero was in the Castle was a surprise to me, because I wanted to take the Castle while the enemy's hero was walking in my field of vision far from the Castle, but there was a teleport there, and I didn't notice when he returned to the Castle. Everything can be logically explained. Judging by the saves, the accused player plays quite well, I would even say very well. That's why I asked the author of the topic right away: did you talk to him personally? Apparently not. I also had a SIMILAR conflict with Alex_R (only I wasn't honored enough to have a separate topic created for me, and if it had been created, I would have been banned after a while:)), I can give a couple more examples from his own (Alex_R) investigations and accusations. I know how unpleasant it is. I'm saying this again, I'm not justifying anyone, I'm just expressing my opinion!
Я ламер и играть не умею, нах!:smile33:
Dreamcatcher
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What can be said about intuition? Intuition works when you need to determine the location of your opponent. It doesn't arise randomly, but is based on knowledge of patterns. Various other signs are taken into account: flags indicating mines and hidden spots, which suggest the proximity of a castle and indicate where to turn at a fork in the road... A hero's movement on the map after their turn... Knowledge of patterns allows you to find entrances to treasure zones without wasting time. But what signs can be used to determine the proximity of a valuable resource, one that can only be taken with certain troops at their limit? The hero went to boost morale – I agree, I would do the same. But why go down further? To farm a pile of gold that you won't be able to collect on this turn after boosting morale? Then it's better to go fight the dwarves... What exactly triggered this famous intuition here?
Added 14 minutes later Alex_R;159339
It's strange that he hasn't noticed this topic yet.
So, it's not anyone from those who posted here... Maybe we should make some bets before March 15th? Judgment Day is coming )))
So, it's not anyone from those who posted here... Maybe we should make some bets before March 15th? Judgment Day is coming )))
I don't think there's anything funny about it - with proper preparation and a clear focus on a specific person (let's remember black PR techniques...), you can dig up one or two dubious (unclear) saves from anyone - it could have been you, and even more so me. Then you have to prove to everyone that you're not a camel. Therefore, this goes far beyond the discussion of this particular save. It's unclear why the author of the topic didn't first send it to the judges and/or authoritative players in private (since the accusation of cheating is very serious, personal motives for not doing so are not considered). If he did (in my opinion, this is simply necessary) - why aren't the results of this appeal provided, even if they are negative? Finally, I would like to note that accusing a specific person of cheating (although, after reading the posts carefully, I noticed that the author does not directly state this anywhere) is a double-edged sword. If there is no concrete evidence and a competent and unambiguous opinion from the judges, the accuser risks being in an awkward position and then will have to disavow his statements in every possible way. Like, I just brought it up for discussion, but so-and-so is a cheater, right? Let the judges decide - the presumption of innocence has not been canceled. P.S. I sincerely respect Alex_R's achievements and awards.
Стратегия - искусство возможного.
Первое правило форума : "Хвалу и клевету приемли равнодушно И не оспаривай глупца" (с)
Новичкам: ВНИМАТЕЛЬНО перечитайте ВЕСЬ первый пост по нижеприведенной ссылке и 90% ваших вопросов отпадут( на остальные 10% с удовольствием отвечу): Правила онлайн игр
Ta Kotoraya...
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I would suggest that Alex R play against this opponent again... and ask 1-2 other players to also play against this person. Make daily saves - and after such a "test," check everything again. And only then announce names and accusations ;)
Если тебе не везёт в жизни, - играй в какую-нибудь другую игру:rolleyes: Лидер клана "Из многих единое" Приключения – это сплошные неприятности, только про них почему-то потом интересно вспоминать...
I would suggest that Alex_R play against this opponent again... and ask 1-2 other players to also play against this person. Make daily saves - and after such a "test," check everything again. And only then announce names and accusations ;)
There are a couple of nuances here... It's not a given that the person will agree to play - that's the first thing... And the second thing is that there are rumors in the Heroes community about a certain slow player, playing against whom turns into an endless wait. What this player is doing during this time is unknown. Maybe he's thinking about the battles... So, if the mysterious opponent Alex_R plays in the same style, it will be torture.
I looked at the save files and had a question. Why isn't there an option for "View Map Editor?" In my opinion, this would be a good addition! The thing is, when playing online, the red player (i.e., the server) has a specific feature: the map on which the game takes place is located in the random_maps folder, and it's easy to press Alt+Tab during the opponent's turn and sneak a peek at the map. This is impossible to prove, so you can only rely on the opponent's honesty! And for some people, winning is so important that they are willing to cross ethical boundaries and win at any cost! In this example, it was particularly blatant, but by looking at the editor on day 1, you can determine the situation and request a restart if the opponent has been given too much of an advantage. Invisble and I talked about this, and he said a wonderful phrase: "It's better to lose 10 times than to tarnish the reputation of a worthy player!" This is one of the reasons why I don't play online... I mean, I do play, but only with trusted people! In this regard, a fixed map is more convenient! And in offline mode, there's none of this at all; everything is fair! I want to thank Alex for literally "catching" the scoundrel! Well done! And his name should definitely be made public so that no one plays with him after this!
Атлант
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I completely agree with Ta Kotoraya. This will really show whether it was just luck, by reviewing the save files, and so on.
Борьба и единство противоположностей - вечный двигатель мира сего.
I completely agree with Ta Kotoraya. This will really show that it was just luck, and that save-scumming was involved, and so on.
Naive people believe that Alex's opponent doesn't know about this and will play with him again, and will play naively with others and continue to cheat... don't make me laugh, gentlemen!!:D
DmitriyAS
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Once again, I feel sorry for the online players. Okay, I suspected Alex_R, but how do I catch others and what evidence can I present?! Human logic and intuition are unpredictable, and explanations for certain events or actions can be as funny and incomprehensible as you like, but hypotheses and suspicions are not proof of guilt, and that's the whole problem!
For me, online gaming is a game of "who can outsmart their opponent." Moreover, all this dirty business can be done on one computer and without the help of a friend... It's all very sad.
Most likely, the save file was viewed. The problem is that the person who viewed the save file was a truly excellent player; this is evident in the smallest details of the game. Talent is being wasted; he would have become the best player on our forum anyway.
Thank you for your opinion, especially since it's very detailed. Now, a couple of comments: loi;159437
I don't understand why the author of the topic didn't send it to the judges and/or reputable players in private first.
A judge (or rather, one judge vbn) was notified almost immediately, but at that time, the information was at the level of "thinking out loud"... and as I personally studied this situation, and with the addition of new facts, it was decided to open this topic – but only after a complete investigation.loi;159437
Why weren't the results of this inquiry, even if negative, provided?
Even though I'm not a newbie in Heroes 3, I turned to the opinions of experts, both local and from other sources, but most of the answers were received before the creation of this topic and in private, and I didn't ask them to duplicate them in the topic, as I initially intended an independent examination... that is... I tried not to name the nicknames of the duel participants, and the question in private also implied an answer intended for private communication... And only once, after this topic was created, I turned to one very knowledgeable specialist – and then asked for permission to use his answer as open information – to which I received a tactful refusal... So, I don't think that the absence of "private" results is surprising... because there are many reasons why many didn't do it, and publishing it on my part would simply be incorrect in relation to them. By the way, all the answers in private were either 100% positive or close to it.loi;159437
If there is no concrete evidence and a competent and unambiguous opinion from the judges, the accuser risks being in an awkward position and then will have to disavow his statements in every possible way. Like, I just brought it up for discussion, but so-and-so is a cheater, right?
For me, the evidence is already 100% (the only thing is that I wasn't personally present during these misdeeds – and only that is conclusive).loi;159437
Let the judges decide – the presumption of innocence has not been canceled.
The judge, again, seems to be only one, and I don't want to put everything on him. I try to comment on everything myself, but I don't deny that it would be more appropriate from the judge's side.
Added after 8 minutes Nagan-4;159598
The bad thing is that the saves were watched by a really excellent player; you can see this in the smallest details of the game. His talent is being ruined; on our forum, he would have become the best anyway.
Well, maybe that's it – but it seems to me that with the use of dirty tricks, any player can be strong or talented – who has played Heroes even a couple of times, and even doesn't necessarily have to know the theory well – which this opponent told me openly... it's enough to read one report every night before going to bed ;) By the way, the same applies to offline – only there it is immediately obvious.
Added after 9 minutes DmitriyAS;159588
I feel sorry for online players once again. Okay, I suspected Alex_R, but how do you catch others and what do you accuse them of?!
Well, I think this will at least discourage others from cheating so openly – and maybe they will have to learn to cheat "smartly" – but for this, you need to be able to play Heroes. :) DmitriyAS;159588
For me, online is a game of "who can cheat the opponent more skillfully." Moreover, all this dirty business can be done on one computer and without the help of a friend... It's all sad.
I sometimes feel sad to realize this, but besides my favorite Heroes 1, 2, 3, there is also Heroes 5, in which nothing like this even comes close to happening, because there are no cheats or "peeking," and even it seems that you can't view a saved game.
Catch
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What is the purpose of this investigation? You won't be able to prove anything. And what will be the result? If a person is innocent, you will label them a cheater. Will that be good? And if they are guilty, they won't care. Do you really think they will repent? They will just say they didn't cheat, and that's it.
In short, here's an idea: play online only with those you trust, and you'll be happy.
I also had suspicions of cheating at one time. I even almost stopped playing online because of it. But even if I'm 99% sure, as long as that 1% remains, I will never publicly reveal the name.
The purpose of this investigation? You won’t be able to prove anything. And what will come of it? If a person is innocent, you’ll slap a cheater label on them. Will that be good? And if they’re guilty, they won’t care. Do you really think they’ll repent? They’ll just say they didn’t cheat, and that’s that. Anyway, that’s my thought. Play online only with those you trust, and you’ll be happy :) I’ve had suspicions of cheating myself back in the day. I almost stopped playing online because of it. But even if I’m 99% sure about someone, as long as that 1% remains, I’ll never publicly name them.
+1000 I agree with every word of this quote. Everything I said above implied what is said in this short speech. I was basically talking about nothing, but I was practically against all this nonsense only because of this. Rating games don’t force you to play with specific players. Choose those you like and trust. If the draw matches you against this player in a tournament, just grit your teeth somehow, play it safe. If you play well, you’ll beat even a cheater. If you suspect them of something, ignore them, blacklist them, and that’s it. If you’re very confident and have Dragon Fly Hive, there are still no 100% proofs online (unless the player cheats openly), so at most share your suspicions with friends via ICQ so they’re on guard. And that’s all!
Once again, I feel sorry for online players.
It’s a matter of taste ;). I, on the contrary, feel sorry for offline players :) Both have their charms. Online is for thrill-seekers. :smile04: I couldn’t sit over one map, playing it for days, spending dozens of hours on a single game day, replaying each battle dozens of times. :eek:
Well, I think it will at least deter others from openly cheating - and maybe they will even have to learn to cheat "smartly" - but for that, they need to be able to play Heroes. :)
2. For your statement to work:Catch;159639
Play online only with those you trust, and you will be happy :)
it is sometimes useful to read such a topic. 3. Personal motives. Regarding the impossibility of proving, or about "repentance" - these are not necessary things, as no one will face administrative, let alone criminal, punishment... it's only about reputation - which practically doesn't require proof - and 99% facts will suffice.
Alex_R
