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Posts from The difference of offline play in Heroes II and Heroes III.

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Offline Ley
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#16
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Dmitry, here's the next question: Will your article include the differences between the buildings and their features in the second and third games? I think such information would be useful.
"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."
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Offline DmitriyAS
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#17
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Ley;157882
Dmitry, here's the next question:
Will your article include the differences and features of the buildings between the second and third games? I think such information would be useful.

It should include everything that can help in offline play for both parts, of course, provided there are significant differences.

Added 5 minutes later
Nzol;157660
In the second game, the computer has "iron logic." :)
There are some nuances in battles. For example, the tactic of distracting from ranged units doesn't work. The enemy "simply" advances towards the target for destruction.
There's an interesting point that could be called illogical. If there is more than one path to the ranged units, for example, if the battlefield is crossed by a ravine, then by blocking one of the paths with other troops (not ranged units), we will force the enemy to move along another path, even if it's longer. It's funny when, a little later, we block the other approach to the ranged units, and the enemy turns around and goes back along the first path that was cleared. :). In this case, the enemy's primary target is the ranged units, and other allied units are just an obstacle in their path.

I've included your valuable argument in the justification of the computer's behavior in the second game :D.
It seems that the case you provided does not deviate from the general concept of the computer's behavior, since, although it may be "awkward," it acts according to the algorithm.
DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.
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Offline Nzol
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#18
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DmitriyAS;157773


Now, let's talk about units. While I'm gathering information about useful offline units in Heroes III, what else can we remember about similar units in Heroes II (besides Djinns)?
1) It's worth noting the Vampire Lords. In the older version, they are significantly stronger because they regenerate from practically everything that moves. In Heroes III, they became more selective.
2) In the second game, there are monsters that will never join you under any circumstances – these are Elementals and Ghosts. The diplomacy process itself is also different. In Heroes II, you could recruit all units if you had enough money. In Heroes III, this is not always the case, and you know the reason.
3) In Heroes II, not all monsters can be upgraded. In the Barbarian castle, there are 3 such units; for the Knight, there is 1; for the Mages, there are 3; for the Necromancers, there are 4; for the Sorceress, there are 3; and for the Necromancers, there are 2. But there is also an exception – Dragons have a double upgrade, which is not observed in the classic Heroes III.
4) In the second game, there are places where, despite the generated save, you can find a random artifact. These are Demon Caves, Graveyards, and Abandoned Ships (which is why there are prohibitions and restrictions for offline play). In Heroes III, everything is more transparent. :)
5) In Heroes II, not all units can be recruited in external dwellings. Primarily, these are units of levels 1 and 2, with the exception of Borows, Gargoyles, and Zombies. They are recruited for free (except for the Wood Elf dwelling, where Dryads, unlike the Wood Elves, are purchased). For money, you can recruit neutral creatures. And you can also buy Trolls, Liches, and Dragons after fighting their guards.
6) In Heroes II, there are no Pandora's Boxes. But there is also a building that is missing in Heroes III – this is the Sphinx.
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Offline PReDS
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#19
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DmitriyAS;157876

...

Thank you. We'll look into the units a bit later – we need to gather some information.
Yeah, if people dig through the depths of their memory (judging by the activity shown – some are quite willing), I think the alphabet won't be enough.

At the same time, another difference came to mind.
In the second game, if you attack a blinded enemy unit, it won't get a turn in that round;
In the third game, in the same situation, it will take its turn.
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Offline yasnikov
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#20
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1) It is worth noting the vampire lords. In the older version, they are significantly stronger because they regenerate from practically everything that moves. In the third game, they became more selective.

I would like to point out that in the second game, vampire lords are not almost, but completely omnivorous, i.e., they regenerate from everything that moves.
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Offline Ley
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#21
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Nzol;157916

But there is also a building that is missing in the third game – the Sphinx.

Actually, the Sphinx is in the third game (In the Wake of Gods, The Restoration of Erathia), but it behaves completely differently.
In the second game, as far as I remember, the hero who decides to visit it gets eaten! :)
In the third game, it's simpler – a curse, like a ban on teleports :), or money will be deducted – all of this lasts only a few days and then passes.
So, not answering the Sphinx's question in the second game is much more dangerous than in the third game.
"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."
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Offline DmitriyAS
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#22
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Ley;158060
By the way, there is a sphinx in the 3rd game (In the Wake of Gods, The Restoration of Erathia).

We are only analyzing offline versions.

Here are some more points that will be added to the article in the near future:
- a brief overview of artifacts;
- UA and the Grail;
- the order of calculating points.
DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.
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Offline Qwerty
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#23
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Secondly, in Heroes of Might and Magic II, it is precisely an artifact. An attribute of the hero that affects his characteristics. The exception is the Golden Goose, which does not affect the hero. However, in Heroes of Might and Magic III, the Grail is more like the Goose. It adds a number of bonuses rather to the player as a whole than to a specific hero. The Grail in Heroes of Might and Magic III is more like an artifact for the city. Moreover, its static nature (since it cannot be moved from city to city) makes it a kind of mixture of a special building, a city artifact, and something else. It is somewhat similar to a hero stationed in a garrison with eight units in the field (that is, with no chance of leaving the city), with a legion statue, and something else...
The only difference between the UA and other artifacts in Heroes of Might and Magic II is that it cannot be captured by the enemy. When a hero with the UA is defeated, the UA mysteriously disappears...

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер
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Offline DmitriyAS
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#24
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Qwerty;158368
Secondly, in Heroes of Might and Magic II, it is precisely an artifact. An attribute of the hero that affects his characteristics. The exception is the Golden Goose, which does not affect the hero. But in the third game, the Grail is more like the goose. It adds a number of bonuses rather to the player as a whole than to a specific hero. The Grail in the third game is more like an artifact for the city. Moreover, its static nature (since it cannot be moved from city to city) makes it a kind of mixture of a special building, a city artifact, and something else. It is somewhat similar to a hero stationed in a garrison with eight units in the field (that is, with no chance of leaving the city), with a legion statue and something else...
The only difference between the Grail and other artifacts in the second game is that it cannot be captured by the enemy. When a hero with the Grail is defeated, the Grail mysteriously disappears...


Well done, I certainly look forward to your comments, including on the three questions mentioned.
DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.
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Offline Catch
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#25
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Qwerty;158368
The only difference between the Amulet of Agility (UA) and other artifacts in the second game is that it cannot be captured by the enemy. When a hero with the UA is defeated, the UA mysteriously disappears...
Before versions PoL 2.1 and SW 1.3, artifacts that granted mixed skills (+6, +6), (+4 to all) did not disappear but were passed on as regular artifacts after the hero was killed. +12 artifacts always disappeared.
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Offline PReDS
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#27
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Some differences in castle skirmishes:
Firstly, the defending tower and the attacking catapult take their turn simultaneously with the fastest unit in the army, so it is possible for either one to not take its turn, and it is impossible to damage the catapult in any way; player control over them is also impossible. The Ballistics skill only improves the catapult's performance; the attack and defense parameters of heroes affect the damage dealt by towers. There is a bug (or feature) with the Shield spell - towers deal increased damage to units under this spell.
Secondly, towers always take their turn first, then the catapult takes its turn. The catapult has 1000 health points and can be destroyed. The Artillery skill of the defender allows control over the towers, and the Ballistics skill of the attacker allows control over the catapult. There are living siege engines - cyclops; the attack and defense parameters of heroes do not affect the damage dealt.
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Offline Qwerty
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#28
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A few more words.
1. Starting army, third game. It is necessary to add the following: "and the hero Bron may even have units of the fourth level – basilisks."
2. Magic of teleportation to a town. In the third game, this spell belongs to the School of Earth, and depending on the level of the magic school, it can teleport the hero to the NEAREST town or to a TOWN of his choice. In the second game, these spells are divided into two: a fourth-level spell that teleports the hero to the nearest town (as if there is no Earth magic in the third game), and a fifth-level spell that teleports the hero to any of his towns (as with advanced Earth magic in the third game).
3. Ally. In the second game, you can attack an ally, capture his mines, castles, and other objects.
In the third game, you cannot attack an ally, but you can learn magic from him, buy a magic book in his town, send him resources, etc.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер
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Offline Gynnar
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#29
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Respect to the author of the thread; this is a very important topic because many people want to play the second game (nostalgia + it's still a great game), but when they start playing, they realize that many things are different compared to the third game, and they have forgotten what and how things work over the years. Since there wasn't a similar guide before, and it's too much effort to learn everything from scratch, they sadly return to the third game. I remember struggling with the second game when I started playing with Loveless. First, I found out that there's no "wait" function in the second game :o, and then I wondered why the vampires weren't regenerating by biting a large stack of creatures without killing anyone, and many other things. Deep Mike lost his first game and played several more because he didn't know that you could simply block a teleport with a single unit. He almost lost to Leos because he didn't know that, after entering a teleport, you can't exit by pressing the spacebar like in the third game; you have to move back and forth (and there was a pack of phoenixes on the other side; it was a Hotspot map, the second one). Now, a player who wants to relive their youth and enjoy this excellent game doesn't have to learn through trial and error or by asking other players; they can read this guide and be well-prepared for battle... By the way, I remembered something about the spacebar, and it's not mentioned in the article; it should be added: In the second Heroes game, you can't, like in the third, visit an object or enter/exit a teleport without moving away from the object and back to it; therefore, visiting an object or teleport multiple times in one game day is limited by the length of the hero's turn. In the third game, you don't need to make any moves for this purpose; you just need to press the spacebar and visit the object or enter/exit the teleport an unlimited number of times in one game day.
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Offline Ley
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#30
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I don't see this anywhere :) :
The "Summon Ship" spell in the second part differs significantly from the third. In the second game, if the external ship is missing, summoning the boat is simply impossible..., but in the third game, this problem is solved - having a secondary skill "Water" at the "Expert" level, the boat is summoned regardless of whether it exists or not.
"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."
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