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Posts from Barbarian magic suppression skills...

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Offline Mdance
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#16
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Starhan;152173
maybe I'll reveal a terrible secret now :)

but in the Thieves' Guild, you can always see the enemy hero,
and if he initially has some kind of magic (for example, Letos with Darkness :)), then you can take that item ;)

Yeah. If you take Anti-Darkness against Letos, you can just survive a little longer...:D
Seriously - against a high-level Darkness hero, Anti-Darkness doesn't save you - it's been tested. So, Subjugation will last 3 turns instead of 6, and what?
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline Vayshan
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#17
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Yes, in my opinion, there is only one useful spell that provides a benefit – Anti-Chaos. It’s very easy to disrupt a Warlock’s magic in this way; the ability that increases mana cost by 50% is quite effective, while a Warlock struggles with it. I don’t think it’s worth taking the other three spells, as they are not very effective against Light and Darkness, and Summoning is unlikely to be the main magic for a Necromancer or a Mage.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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Offline _Prizrak_
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#18
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As I recall, if you use skillful Dark Dampening, the opponent won't be able to cast Mind Control on high-level creatures... Mind Control will work for fewer turns, the Slow spell will be less effective, and so on.
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
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Offline Mdance
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#19
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_Prizrak_;152572
As I recall, if you use the "Darkness Dampening" spell, the opponent won't be able to cast "Mind Control" on high-level creatures... "Mind Control" will work for fewer turns, the slowing effect will be less effective, and so on.

Yes, low-level Darkness is weakened quite well. However, high-level Darkness is barely affected by this "Dampening" spell. So what if the enemy can't control Cyclops? They'll control Executioners, and those will eliminate their own allies with each attack. Berserk will only work for one attack instead of two – that's not great either. Again, Executioners are the primary target for this. Blindness will work for fewer turns. By that time, the rest of the army will already be wiped out.

A much greater effect is achieved with "Anti-Chaos" and "Anti-Summoning." In this regard, "Anti-Darkness" is inferior...
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline _Prizrak_
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#20
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But when controlling Executioners, the income will decrease significantly due to the artifact...
P.S. I don't want to justify the artifact; I would have preferred Luck with resistance and resistance artifacts... But here they said that this artifact is worse than all the others, and IMHO, that's not true!!!:)
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
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Offline Mdance
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#21
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_Prizrak_;152602
But when controlling Executioners, (due to the debuff), the initiative will decrease significantly...

Let it even drop to zero. The goal is achieved - the stack is taken out of the battle and loses Fury points. Two casts - two stacks. And it cannot be removed by absolutely anything. If Blind can at least be dispelled with a "kick in the butt," then Dominate simply cannot be. The same applies to Berserk. It cannot be removed or blocked. The only option is to put a berserk stack against either an insignificant unit or a very durable one (for example, Warlords, but they shouldn't take down the enraged ones in return).
And compare it, for example, with Anti-Chaos, when the damage of attack spells is reduced several times, and the Shield of Fury absorbs it. Is there a difference?
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline HumanSt
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#22
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Well, well. You don't need Anti-Magic either when you're just running around the map against the AI or when your opponent is a weak player! A serious opponent perfectly understands that the Barbarian's biggest weakness is Darkness (as Fireball correctly pointed out), and the Barbarian should understand this too. Yes, Anti-Darkness won't completely negate Darkness – both Subjugation and Berserk will still deal significant damage... but not catastrophic damage!!!!!! Again, I'd like to point out that Subjugation is a 5th-level spell, and it might not even be available, but various slows, curses, and Dispel Magic will definitely be present (well, almost), and if the Barbarian doesn't have Anti-Darkness, these spells will be his death sentence!
Anti-Chaos – there's almost nothing to add here; everything said is correct (personally, I take it against the Tower faction; in other cases, Luck is better).
Anti-Light – in my opinion, it's useful in only one case: when a Knight who focuses on Light is playing against the Barbarian (but you still need to figure out what the Knight will be focusing on:(( ). Since, in my opinion, Knights are the only faction that can compete with the Barbarian even without magic, and with Light, it's just devastating.
Anti-Summoning – utter nonsense!!!!! If anyone knows how it can help, please let me know
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Offline 2DDarkKnight
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#23
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I prefer to collect or buy the art from the Dwarf set. Luckily, they appear quite often, and they don't take up much space compared to anti-magic items... although in some cases, they are needed, and even very much so. It depends.
Варвары рулят!!
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Offline Mdance
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#24
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HumanSt;152659
Anti-Summoning is utter nonsense!!!!! If anyone knows how it can help, please let me know.

Why be so hasty? Dark is quite capable of fighting Orcs in Summoning, because Anti-Chaos forces him to. And his Phoenix, I tell you, is quite a beast...
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline HumanSt
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#25
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Mdance;152662
Why be so reckless? The Dark faction can easily summon against Orcs because of Anti-Chaos. And the Phoenix, I tell you, is quite a beast...
A strong beast?! Maybe, but not against Orcs! :smile19: They'll devour it with any stack. The same applies to all other summoned creatures, except perhaps the Avatar of Death, and even then, only if the hero is level 25 or higher. The only thing that can help Summon against Orcs is duplicates! But Anti-Summon doesn't really help against them:smile32:

Added 4 minutes later
2DDarkKnight;152661
I prefer to collect or buy artifacts from the Dwarven set. Luckily, they appear often, while Anti-Darkness takes up space... although in some cases, it's needed, and even very much so. It depends...
Of course, I prefer them too:D But they won't replace Anti-Darkness (dispelling, curse, enthrall), and if you have both, plus properly developed luck;) that's a great defense!!!!!:smile54:
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Offline Mdance
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#26
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HumanSt;152672
A strong creature?! Maybe, but not for Orcs! :smile19: They would happily devour it with any stack.

Oh, I wouldn't be so categorical...
In the Dungeon thread, I told about a battle with an Orc on a "meat" map. The Orc's army consisted of about 160 Chieftains, 600 Centaurs, and the rest accordingly.
I had Leto with SP=51. The Phoenix, under the Celestial Shield, couldn't bring down his entire army. Too bad I didn't save the replay.:(
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline HumanSt
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#27
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Mdance;152680
Oh, I wouldn't be so categorical...
In the Dungeon thread, I was telling about a battle with an Orc on a "meat grinder" map. The Orc's army consisted of about 160 Chieftains, 600 Centaurs, and the rest accordingly.
I had Leto with SP=51. The Phoenix under the Celestial Shield couldn't even scratch his army. Too bad I didn't save the replay. :(
Maybe because you hit them hard with Darkness, and the opponent didn't have Anti-Darkness?;) Because with such a high SP, any Darkness spell (if not suppressed) sticks "forever."
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Offline Fireball
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#28
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A strong creature?! Maybe, but not against Orcs! They will happily devour it with any stack. The same applies to all other summoned creatures, except perhaps for the Avatar of Death, and even then, only if the hero is level 25 or higher. The only thing that Summoning can help with against Orcs is duplicates! And Anti-Summoning doesn't really help against them.
Then imagine a large stack (or even a very large one due to Necromancy and the Converter) of Lords under a Shield with 2000 HP, which absorbs half the damage. And the Lords not only deal damage but also, for each Drain, subtract 90 additional points of Rage. Or a mage can cast simple mines under a Sign, and 16 of them will appear on the field at once. A constantly moving Orc will take a beating, and that's about 250 damage from each mine. A total of 4000 potential damage per cast.
Moreover, magical races get 2 spells, while an Orc won't get 2 filler spells. But the problems with Suppression don't end there, because, by maxing out Darkness and Summoning, the Necromancer and Warlock easily acquire perks like Haste and Stone Skin. Mass Haste (1.3x) and Slow (0.7x at maximum Suppression) mean the Orc moves 2 times less often. And Confusion remains a fairly effective spell.
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Offline Mdance
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#29
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HumanSt;152683
Maybe it's because you used Darkness spells on them a lot, and the opponent didn't have Anti-Darkness spells;)? Because with such a Spell Power, any Darkness spell (if not suppressed) sticks "forever."

We played that battle twice - with Darkness spells and (just for fun) without them.
With Darkness spells, the Orc lost without a chance. Without Darkness spells, I lost, but they didn't manage to defeat the Phoenix. They just tore my army apart. Strangely enough, I had full Darkness spells, but not full Summoning spells. I didn't have Walls or Hive. Maybe if I had blocked with walls, I could have won without Darkness spells...

Therefore, I stick to my opinion - Anti-Chaos and Anti-Summoning spells quite severely reduce magic. But Anti-Darkness spells - not so much.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline HumanSt
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#30
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Fireball;152687
Then imagine a large stack (or even a very large one due to necromancy and the converter) of lords under the Shield spell with 2000 HP, which absorbs half the damage. And the lords not only take damage but also, for each Drain cast, lose 90 additional points of rage. Or a mage can cast simple mines under the Sign spell, and 16 of them will appear on the field at once. A constantly moving orc will take a beating, and that's about 250 damage from each mine. In total, 4000 potential damage per cast.
Moreover, magical races get 2 spells, while the orc won't get 2 useless ones. But the problems with suppressing spells don't end there, because, by maxing out Darkness and Summoning, the Necromancer and Warlock can easily acquire perks like Haste and Stone Skin. Mass Haste (1.3x) and Slow (0.7x at maximum suppression) mean the orc moves twice as rarely. And even Dispel remains a fairly effective spell.
But this is already more serious than a phoenix with a shield:smile40:
So, let's go in order: lords with a shield of 2000 HP are certainly a serious opponent, but I don't see anything catastrophic - with such a large amount of Horde Rage, the shield will be quickly broken (by the way, what about phoenixes? will one of them survive such an attack?), and vampires will, of course, be targeted first (preferably before the hero's turn). Next, mines dealing 250-70% = 75 damage is not serious; it's a wasted hero turn.
Now, imagine for a second what the opponent can do with Darkness in just a couple of turns, even with it fully suppressed!!!!!!!!
You are right about the two spells (especially the combination of Light/Darkness for the knight is dangerous), but, as they say, we choose the lesser of two evils, i.e., we pump up Anti-Darkness;) - usually, that's enough.
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