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Posts from Discussion about Dungeon (Dark Elves). Auto-translated

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In reply to ValgallaWolf
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#680
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ValgallaWolf;150986
2 Vaishan
Witches cast Berserk in melee combat (with a whip attack), but by the way, it's quite possible that you've never seen it, because it happens VERY rarely...

I completely agree about Lethos... Against Orcs, Darkness is the best...
You should forget about summoning Lethos; it's like giving a fish an umbrella... Chaos is much better for him, with attack and spellpower, and that's basically it... An Orc killer is ready...
Hmm... I've played Dark Elves so much, how could I not know that they also cast spells with a whip? Everyone knows that!
They can also inflict Weakness and Slow. But is it worth relying on this whip? And here's another question: can a hero with the Secret unlocked learn Berserk cast with the help of a whip? After all, witches don't cast this spell themselves; it's not in their spellbook. Has anyone checked?
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
In reply to Vayshan
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#681
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Vayshan;151631
Hmm... I've played with Dark Elves so much, how could I not know that they can also cast spells with a whip? Everyone knows that!
They can also inflict weakness and slow. But is it worth relying on this whip? And here's another question: can a hero with the "Uncover Secret" skill learn Berserk, cast with the help of a whip? After all, witches don't cast this spell themselves; it's not in their spellbook. Has anyone checked?

I checked – it works. But it takes some effort.
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
In reply to ValgallaWolf
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#682
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ValgallaWolf;150986
Forget about summoning a Letos; it's useless for him, like an umbrella for a fish. Chaos is much better for him, with more powerful spells, attack, and magic. An Orcish Assassin is ready...

But that's a hasty judgment. I remember fighting against Haghesh with Letos, and throughout the battle, Phoenixes with Shield and Vampirism, and Wolf Riders with Subjugation did all the work. It was a full-fledged Dark faction – he picked up creatures from Treasure Rooms and Utopias (the map was large and rich).
When we played the rematch, the opponent took Vaishan against Haghesh and went for a spellcaster duel. At his 29th level, he only had 22 spell points due to my "Strength against Magic" perk. And we also need to subtract 25% from that due to Chaos Weakness... In general, the main damage was dealt by the troops, not magic.
Against an Orc, a Warlock spellcaster is really effective because an attack or spell removes the Shield of Fury, and then the chains go through the "naked" stack.
300+ Minotaurs took down 4 Cyclops with the first attack, took some damage in return, after which they were reduced to 181, and with the second attack, they eliminated 41. Matriarchs also took down 400+ Warmongers with a single shot... However, it was impossible to win that battle with just an army. If it had been a Dark faction, I would have lost. Or, if I had a second school of magic, there are some fun spells there...
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
In reply to Mdance
#683
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Mdance;151841
That's a hasty judgment. I remember fighting against Haggeesh Letos, and throughout the entire battle, Phoenixes with Shield and Vampirism, and Wolf Riders with Subjugation did all the work. It was a full-fledged Darkness build – he gathered troops from Treasure Rooms and Utopias (the map was large and rich).
When we played the rematch, the opponent took Vaishan against Haggeesh and went for a Spell Power build. At level 29, he only had 22 Spell Power due to my Magic Resistance perk. And we also need to subtract 25% from that due to Chaos Weakness... In general, the main damage was dealt by the troops, not magic.
Against the Orc, the Spell Power Warlock is really effective because the attack or spell removes the Shield of Rage, and the chains then hit the "bare" stack.
300+ Minotaurs took down 4 Cyclops with the first hit, took some damage in return, after which there were 181 left, and with the second hit, they eliminated 41. 400+ Warmongers also took down 4 Matriarchs with a single shot... However, it was impossible to win that battle with just an army. If it were Darkness, I would have lost. Or, if I had taken Summoning as the second school – there are some fun spells there...
Level 29? That's crazy! :D What map were you playing on that allowed you both to develop so much? Honestly, I'm surprised that Haggeesh lost in the first game you described... It was probably due to the infamous debuffs. Usually, in very long games, Orcs don't leave any chance for the Elves. Also, how did the Minotaurs manage to take down 4 Cyclops with the first attack, and 41 with the second? :D Obviously, it's a typo. With such unrealistic armies, Summoning and Chaos are no longer effective and are nervously standing aside. Light and Darkness, on the other hand, are useful.
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.


G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
In reply to Майор Вихрь
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#684
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Major Whirlwind;151913
Level 29? That's crazy! :D What map were you playing on that allowed you to develop so much? Honestly, I'm surprised how Haggeesh lost in the first game you described... It was probably due to those infamous silence spells. Usually, in very long games, Orcs don't give the Temple faction any chance. Also, how did the Minotaurs manage to defeat 4 Cyclops with the first attack and 41 with the second? :D Obviously, it's a typo. With such unrealistic armies, neither Summoning nor Chaos is effective anymore; they just stand aside and watch. Light and Darkness, on the other hand, are useful.

We were playing specifically to see if the Temple faction could compete with the Orcs in a long game. The map was Three Rivers. It's very rich in experience and various upgrades. Each player has 3 cities.

Of course, we both play League better than Orcs, but still... (by the way, we were playing with Supreme)

In the first game, my Letos was level 33, and his Haggeesh was level 30. His Special Ability (SP) was 51. And the armies were smaller. Something like 160 Chieftains and the rest accordingly. The Chieftains were the ones defeating his stacks under Subordination. And the Phoenix finished the job. We replayed the same battle without using Darkness, and I lost, although they couldn't kill the Phoenix. Simply, when the Mistresses and Hunters came out of invisibility, they were torn to shreds.

In the second game, we switched, and he took Vaishan. I leveled up to 33, and he leveled up to 29, but he also had 5 heroes up to level 15, all with Logistics. He simply pinned me down near the castle (I didn't have Logistics), and I had to surrender. And we conducted the battles just for fun - we bought all the troops and fought. Both he and I had Stronghold. He also had a Rune set. So, even with my superiority in troops, the League army looked decent. Of course, he lost the battle. Although, Chaos with chains also dealt significant damage...

Regarding the Minotaurs and Cyclops - there's no typo. The first attack simply hit the Shield of Fury, which absorbed 80% of the damage. And the second attack was already on the "clean" stack. By the way, unlike Letos' replays, we figured out how to save these...
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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#685
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I don't understand... how is it possible to defeat 41 Cyclops with 181 Minotaurs??? And another question: what were the stats of the Phoenix with that level of magic? (Please post the replays).
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
In reply to Vayshan
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#686
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Vayshan;151968
I don't understand... how is it possible to defeat 41 Cyclops with 181 Minotaurs??? And another question – what were the stats of the Phoenix with such magic power? (Please upload the replays)

We didn't think to save the replay of the first encounter (when I was playing as the Temple). But it's not difficult to calculate the Phoenix's stats. If we assume that the level was indeed 33, then:

HP = 1950
Damage = 550-825
Attack/Defense = 76 (without taking into account the hero's parameters).

There are replays of the return battle, and even in two versions. Here is a link to the Nival forum, where my opponent posted them...

http://forums.nival.com/rus//topic/at/901428/
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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#687
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No way... how can you defeat 181 Minotaurs with 41 Cyclops? It's impossible! This is already in the realm of fantasy. IMHO, this situation is simply not realistic and there's no point in discussing it. Because when playing against a serious opponent, this will never happen! Sorry for the off-topic.
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#688
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The theory is correct. But in practice, it can be applied, but for this, you need a hero who is SO powerful that we can only dream of it.
In reply to Gunslinger
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#689
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shddr;151977
No way... how can you defeat 181 Minotaurs with 41 Cyclops – it’s impossible! This is already in the realm of fantasy. IMHO – this case is simply not real and there is no point in discussing it. Because when playing against a serious opponent, this will never happen! Sorry for the off-topic.

Oh, how interesting... And what are the doubts? Take a look at the replays, and then make such statements. The opponent is quite serious; I think I already mentioned – SupremeHW. In the Conflux League, such things happen, so I expect you to admit that you are wrong.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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#690
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It's not surprising that the link with the replay doesn't open! Provide evidence!... Even if the Cyclops are without Fury, they still can't be killed at 181 minutes. Okay, let's take a look at the replay, if it opens, of course...
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
In reply to _Prizrak_
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#691
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_Prizrak_;151990
It's not surprising that the link to the replay doesn't open! Provide proof!... Even if the Cyclops are without Fury, they still can't be killed in 181 minutes.
Okay, let's take a look at the replay, if it opens, of course...

It opens perfectly fine for me...
But for those who can't open it, I can upload the replays here as well - it's not a problem for me...;)
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Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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#692
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Yeah... taking down 41 Cyclops with 181 Minotaurs is quite a feat... Although, such high damage wasn't enough to save the day, unfortunately. I think the main mistake was skipping the turn with creatures when they could have attacked. Rage certainly reduces the damage from attacks, but if you don't attack, it won't decrease further. So, even if you deal more damage, if you stand still, the enemy will reach you and defeat everyone. It's the same either way.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
In reply to Vayshan
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#693
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Vayshan;152011
Yeah... taking down 41 Cyclops with 181 Minotaurs is quite something... Although, such high damage didn't save him in the end. I think the main mistake was skipping turns with units when they could have attacked. Rage certainly reduces the damage from attacks, but if you don't attack, it won't decrease any further. So, even if you manage to deal more damage, if you stand still, the enemy will reach you and defeat everyone. It's the same either way.

Actually, if I hadn't had Anti-Chaos, I think the situation could have turned the other way around, because the damage from the chain attacks was +280%.
We chose this map specifically to see how competitive the Warlock is with huge armies. As the experiments showed, it's quite competitive. Especially considering that he had 4 heroes of approximately level 15. That is, he could have thinned out my army a bit before the main battle.
And regarding skipping turns - there weren't any. I do know a little about Orcs and I'm aware that Rage is lost...
It might seem that way when Goblin Shamans sacrifice themselves, for example...

Or are you referring to the League army skipping turns? I don't think that happened either...
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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#694
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In my opinion, the Orc build wasn't very good. The Stronghold has good creatures, but the perks are weak... Or did you guys specifically agree to play with super abilities? And did the Town Hall happen to have a composite artifact (+40% elemental damage)?
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02: