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Stronghold
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Offline Майор Вихрь
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#54
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For a Ghost, a race-warrior, defense is definitely a useful skill. It will be beneficial with a 100% probability, unlike a filler skill, which might not be useful at all (remember, we are talking about fighting Necropolis, which can have either summoning, darkness, or both). I'm not even talking about such a useful skill for Orcs as resilience, which is quite effective for the numerous levels 1-3. By the way, defense reduces the total damage received, which means it will reduce the rage cost. So, you're wrong, Ghost. The question is, what is the priority of defense compared to other skills? In my game with Haghesh, defense is developed last. But in the game with Shakk'Karukat, I develop it as early as possible, since he gets it at the start.
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
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Offline _Prizrak_
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#55
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No, I think the defense starts working after the rage is spent; spending it doesn't affect the defense (I think I read that on Nival's website)...

Added after 4 minutes
It's better to level up luck (magic resistance), and find some boots – it's not that rare of an artifact... and forget about the block and defense, and instead take, say, education or shouts, whatever drops... Although there's a perk in defense called resilience, which at least increases HP... it's debatable...
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
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Offline Майор Вихрь
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#56
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Well, magic resistance is only useful if the opponent is a mage. Otherwise, the levels will be wasted. It's also practically useless against a light mage. Although, on the other hand, reflecting some divine retribution is still a plus. But it's not guaranteed that it will be used. It's a pity that the chance of reflection will be small in any case. If I get shouts, I level them up depending on the situation (rarely, but sometimes leadership refuses to appear at all, while shouts do appear). I always level up education. I don't rely on it, but if it appears, I level it up. IMO, it's very useful for an orc; extra stats won't hurt him, and considering that they almost always go into attack and defense, it turns out to be something terrible and hits very hard. Also, the "Fury of the Fire" perk is good. In combination with the Amulet of Mastery, reaching the 2nd level of fury becomes very easy (although, such a combination is a stroke of luck). Regarding whether defense reduces the cost of fury points, I won't argue, as I haven't checked. I just thought it was the most logical. In that case, defense should at least reduce the damage that reaches the orc, regardless of fury. If defense doesn't work at all when fury is active, then IMO, it's a bug.
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
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Offline _Prizrak_
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#57
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And my education never helped me anywhere... although it's scary to think about: an Orc with such an attack... Horrible!!!!!!
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
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Offline HRono
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#58
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_Prizrak_;131659
Write everything you know about the Stronghold versus Necropolis matchup!!! Their weak points, which skills to take, the strategy for the battle (but don't just say to prolong the game), which hero is better, and so on... Someone said that Orcs are nothing compared to the Undead, and I want to prove them wrong!!! This really got to me:smile35: :smile35: :smile35: !!! And since I haven't been playing as Orcs for very long, I don't know all the pros and cons of this faction! And he's been playing as the Undead since Heroes 5 was first released(( but from my observations, he's not a very good tactician, so we need to take advantage of that!!! Therefore, please write everything that will help me in the game... (I want to note right away: we will be fighting on the largest possible map).

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND using the Silence spell. Without it, the Necropolis is unbeatable.
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Offline _Prizrak_
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#59
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Darkness is scarier than summoning in the early game... Most players choose it.
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
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Offline Полосатая
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Posts: 424
#60
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You can take the Silencer, but I don't think it works very well, except maybe it reduces damage against Chaos. The Darkness Shroud doesn't help at all; even if the Necromancer casts Dominate, what difference does it make how many turns it lasts? The dominated Cyclops will already have time to defeat half the army. Another question: maybe I'm missing something?:smile04: Tell me, how can an Orc in the late game be scarier than a Necromancer? On the contrary, the Necromancer will have time to gather hordes of undead on neutral territories, and even though the Orc has stronger warriors, he will still win due to numerical superiority. And what will the Orc recruit? Only Goblins can be recruited through Keegan and the Wagon. Or is there something I'm not seeing?:smile50:
So back off your rules,
Back off your jive!
Cause I'm sick of not living,
To stay alive,
Leave me alone!
I'm not asking a lot -
I just don't want to be controlled,
That's all I want.
All I want!
(с)The Offspring
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Offline Mdance
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Posts: 235
#61
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Of course.
1. Cyclops won't be able to overwhelm their own army under Subjugation with Anti-Darkness simply because the Subjugation level will decrease by 1, and the Cyclops won't be subjugated, even though Darkness remains strong against Orcs to the point of being devastating.
2. Without Darkness, the Orc simply tears the Necropolis apart in the late game, especially if there is not just one native castle, but several. The math is simple. Necropolis troops are weaker than those of other factions and lack morale. This is compensated for by Necromancy. 350 points of Town Experience (TE) for one city, not counting the hero. For the second city, it's already less - 150. That is, a total of 500 instead of 700, for the third - 650 instead of 1050. Is the logic clear?
3. If the Orc upgrades Education to Mentorship, there can be so many Goblins that Orcish Fury will deal damage comparable to Earth Shock from a Warlock.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline Игрок
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Posts: 414
#62
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A real-life example.
I was playing with a friend, I was Orc, and he was Necromancer. The map had only 2 native towns each, and the game went into the late game... I, as the Orc, had Chain Lightning and an Amulet of Mastery + Fury in the Education skill, increased by 1.5 + accordingly, 2 castles with buildings that increase Fury (think about it and estimate!!!). The Necromancer's army, in terms of strength and numbers, was not impressive. There were Summoning, Darkness, Sorcery, Education... and Luck, I think. In the first game in the final, the Orc easily won, without significant losses. Because the Necromancer started summoning Phoenixes, tried to raise the dead, and used Vampirism...
Then we swapped armies. I, leading the Necromancers with Subjugation (Berserk was not available :-( ...), rendered the Orc army useless. Neither the special ability nor the wild stats and Fury levels helped him... nothing!!! There was a moment in the game when, out of forgetfulness, thinking that the retaliation of the Cyclops was already removed, I attacked them with my Dragons. The result: no Cyclops died, and the Dragons lost 8 out of 15...
Conclusion.
Against a Necromancer, you must definitely have anti-darkness (we can survive summoning).
You must definitely have Tactics, a Speed Aura, and Speed Boots - buy, steal, take them away by any means and put them instead of any artifact!!! (so that you can move in one turn).
In the late game, focus on Education.
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Offline Fireball
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#63
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Conclusion.
Against Necropolis, definitely use Anti-Magic (we'll survive the summoning).
Definitely get Tactics, Speed Aura, and Boots of Speed – buy, steal, capture, whatever it takes, and replace any other artifact with them! (so you can reach the enemy in one turn).
In the late game, focus on Education.
And pray to Father Sky and Mother Earth that the Necromancer doesn't have any secondary creatures for the Converter, 2 artifacts from his own set (otherwise -1 speed and you won't reach him), and Subjugation.
3. If the Orc upgrades Education to Mentorship, there can be so many Goblins that Horde Fury will deal damage comparable to Earth Shock from a Warlock.
It's not as great as it seems. If there are really a lot of Goblins, under Subjugation (taking into account the Orc's attack and the very likely Blindness), they can cause more harm than good. And in the meantime, the enemy hero will do something nasty.
2. Without Darkness, the Orc simply tears the Necromancer to shreds in the late game, especially if he has more than one native castle.
The Necromancer... in the late game... without Darkness... Is this some kind of particularly perverse form of suicide?
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Offline Полосатая
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#64
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Regarding secondary castles... Has anyone seen a map with more than two castles of the same faction? I haven't either. You'd have to create such a map yourself. And if the castles appear randomly, then Necropolis might lose the bonus to magic power, but it can gather undead from the secondary castles. Again, the army will be huge. What can Orc do? You can, of course, send everyone to the slave market, but there are no problems with money on large maps. You can also hire "foreign" heroes, but there won't be enough experience for everyone. But Necropolis can have a mentor.
So back off your rules,
Back off your jive!
Cause I'm sick of not living,
To stay alive,
Leave me alone!
I'm not asking a lot -
I just don't want to be controlled,
That's all I want.
All I want!
(с)The Offspring
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Offline Игрок
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Posts: 414
#65
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Fireball;163781
And ask Father Sky and Mother Earth to ensure that the Necropolis doesn't have any foreign secondary units for the converter, 2 artifacts from its own set (otherwise -1 speed and it won't reach its destination), and Subjugation.
The Cyclops has a speed of 6 + tactics + speed aura + boots... who won't it reach? As for your converter, it won't be saved from the Cyclops when they walk through every two Necromancer units under Wrath, pushed by two squads of Chieftains and a hero, and with acceleration... The Necromancer's strength lies in darkness in this case. You can't simply overwhelm the Orc with bones...
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Offline Fireball
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#66
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A cyclops has a speed of 6 + tactics + speed aura + boots... who won't it be able to reach? And as for your converter, it won't save you from cyclops when they, under the effect of Wrath, will be moving through every two Necromancer units, pushed forward by two packs of Leaders and a hero, and with increased speed...
For such a tactic, free cyclops are usually used, and they have a speed of 5. And as I already described in the thread about Orcs, with one castle and a decent set of artifacts, cyclops can attack a maximum of once, because against an Orc in the late game, Outpost is essential for any race. And one stack of cyclops will have its entire army's morale reduced in one go, and it won't have a second turn.
The strength of the Necromancer lies in Darkness in this case. You can't just throw bones at the Orc...
A couple of secondary Dark units + Dweller allow you to talk about
>2000 skeletons after 2.5 months, which is about 3000 (Claw Beast, Bone Bow, Archer) damage to the cyclops, of which there are 16-17, i.e., approximately 4000 HP. Vampires, taking into account Drain Life, and Liches reduce morale, and skeletons finish them off with a single shot. If both players have several native castles and no extra secondary units, the Necromancer will most likely lose, but such a situation with castles is generated only if it's done on purpose.
In general, the combination of Outpost and Darkness solves many problems against the Orc. This is especially evident in the example of the Orcish Fortress, but you need to eliminate Logistics.
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Offline _Prizrak_
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#67
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Why do you think that Necropolis doesn't have any tactics? Then they definitely won't make it. You need sneakers for confidence...
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
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Offline Игрок
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#68
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Fireball;163872
For this tactic, free Cyclops are usually used, and they have a speed of 5. As I already described in the thread about Orcs, with one castle and a decent set of artifacts, Cyclops can only attack once, because against an Orc in the late game, an Outcast Unit (OU) is essential for any race. And a single stack of Cyclops will have its morale broken by the entire army in one turn, and it won't have a second turn. A couple of secondary units from the Outcast faction plus Dweller allow you to talk about having over 2000 skeletons after 2.5 months, which is about 3000 (Claw Beast, Blood Beast, Archer) damage to the Cyclops, of which there are 16-17, i.e., approximately 4000 HP. Vampires, taking into account Drain Life, and Liches break the morale, and skeletons finish them off with one shot. If both players have several native castles and no secondary units, the Necropolis player will most likely lose, but this situation with castles is generated only if it's done intentionally. In general, the combination of Outcast and Darkness solves many problems against the Orc. This is especially evident in the example of the Orcish Fortress, but you need to eliminate Logistics.
1. The assumed strategy of the Outcast player, Prizrak, does not involve rushing. 2. If I am playing as an Orc and see that free Cyclops cannot reach the enemy in one turn, I will take Bloodeyes – I won't lose much. 3. Don't idealize secondary units so much. After 2.5 months, you will have about 400 skeletons from them... this is not scary, and the more creature dwellings on the map, the better it may be for the Orc; it all depends on the situation, as his army is stronger.
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