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Posts from Armageddon's Magic – it really shocked me.

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Offline Timnk
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Basically, here's the situation...

So, we started a game, I'm playing as the Necropolis faction, and my opponent is playing as the Woodland Realm. It's the second month, second week. I've grown quite powerful, I have around 1500 skeletons, I found a cloak, and then Kairin arrives with a bunch of dragons. I scouted with a weaker hero, checking out four groups of his units in the first and four in the third. Basically, I pretended to offer a castle exchange, but I had a town portal (we were playing with town portals and dimension doors). I knew I could reach his castle and jump back to my own. So, I set off, as planned, and he went to capture my main castle. I thought, "Gotcha!" So, I capture his main Castle, return home, and attack his Kairin. I don't remember all the stats, but his magic power was 19. I figured that if anything too nasty happened, I could use the Sphere of Vulnerability (the one that removes magic immunity). So, here's the question:

Why didn't the Sphere of Vulnerability remove the magic immunity from the Gold Dragons, even though they were slowed down, and neither of us had any artifacts that provided magic resistance? He had two spheres on him: Earth and Fire.
If needed, I can list the artifacts...

Honestly, I've been playing for about 10 years, and I've never seen anything like this. He was surprised too. That's how the game ended, and it wasn't in my favor :(
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Offline AmberSoler
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Timnk;146782
Here's the question:

Why didn't the Sphere of Vulnerability remove the immunity from the Golden Dragons, even though they were slowed down, and neither he nor I had any resistance artifacts? He had two spheres active: earth and fire.
Yes, the Sphere of Vulnerability is a wonderful artifact! :) However, you didn't specify in your post who cast the spell. The combination of the Sphere of Vulnerability and Armageddon has a specific feature that can be described as follows:

If the spell is cast by the artifact's wielder, it affects all units on the battlefield. If it's cast by the opponent, it affects all enemy units, and only those of their own troops that would have been affected by the spell even without the Sphere.

So, if the Sphere was on you and you cast Armageddon, then the enemy's GDs should definitely be destroyed. If the Armageddon is cast by the opponent, he will leave his own GDs alive and unharmed.
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Offline Timnk
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Thank you very much for the comprehensive answer. Indeed, the sphere was affecting me; Armageddon was casting spells, and that's why his dragons didn't die. I'll remember this for next time, and I won't be so careless again...
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Offline Timnk
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Given these circumstances, the best artifact for a Necromancer becomes the Sphere of Suppression (of course, not counting the Cloak), because there are many skeletons, and you can fight without magic.
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Offline РУХ-ЧУДИЩЕ-ОГР
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Have you played on Hotseat? If so, how?
Sub specie aeternitatis.

Под знаком вечности.

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Offline AmberSoler
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Dmitry_A_S;146829
It seems that this issue has already been discussed and quite clearly...
Well, not quite... One of the well-known and quite effective tactics for using Armageddon is to strike at both the enemy's troops and your own simultaneously... If there is no Armageddon's Blade, then this option is quite justified - sacrificing a small amount to achieve a greater goal.

That's why I assumed that the author of the post was counting on such a tactic. And, naturally, after losing his troops, he was quite disappointed by the fact that the enemy's GD remained intact... As an option - maybe they cast antimagic on them under the cover... ;) So, this is not visible from the text, but there are three ways to end the situation "not in favor of the author"! And all for different reasons... How about that! :D
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Offline DmitriyAS
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Timnk;146782
if something is really nasty, like a vulnerability sphere (basically, the one that removes immunity to magic)
He doesn't have the Sphere, nor does he mention the Blade of Armageddon (he would definitely have mentioned it), and the dragons are separated. The author is upset about something not immediately obvious. He would have noticed anti-magic. What other possibilities are there!?
DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.
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Offline AmberSoler
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Timnk;146819
...And next time, I won't be so careless...
Yeah... Carrying the Sphere around isn't that safe – if the opponent understands what kind of "bomb" it is, they can cause a lot of trouble for the owner of this wonderful artifact. :)

For your information, in case someone doesn't know – the Sphere completely neutralizes the effect of the secondary skill "Magic Resistance" in all its forms – all artifacts that increase resistance do not work, and neither does Torgrim's specialization (Magic Resistance). Also, Gnomes and Crystal Dragons lose their ability to reflect magic – sometimes it's useful, of course... But if your main hero is Torgrim, level 20, and feels invulnerable in battle, he might get a nasty surprise... ;)

Added 6 minutes later
Dmitry_A_S;146946
He has the Sphere, but no Armageddon Blade (he would definitely mention it), and the dragons are separated. The author is upset about something not so obvious. He would have noticed the anti-magic. What other options are there!?
Dear Dmitry, we are getting into sophistry, because in your post there is already an assumption that "he would have noticed the anti-magic," which I didn't take into account at all... The post doesn't say that "the opponent didn't cast anti-magic," and therefore, it was inappropriate to draw this conclusion... ;)

Indeed, there is more than one way to interpret the events based on the first post in the thread, which is what I pointed out...
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Offline DmitriyAS
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AmberSoler;146948

Dear Dmitry, we are getting into sophistry, because your post already contains the assumption "He would have noticed the antimagic," which I didn't take into account at all...

Nevertheless, the facts mentioned by the author were enough for me to make, if not a strictly syllogistic, but still a conclusion that Armageddon was not cast by him.
Although, I agree, sometimes it's better to ask too many questions than too few. :)
DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.
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Offline AmberSoler
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Dmitry_A_S;146954
Nevertheless, the facts mentioned by the author were enough for me to make, albeit not a strictly syllogistic, but a conclusion that Armageddon was not cast by him.
Although, I agree, sometimes it's better to ask too many questions than too few. :)
The trick is that he could have cast Armageddon with exactly the same disastrous result for himself! :D That's why I clarified the point... And in everything else, you are absolutely right... :D
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Offline DmitriyAS
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AmberSoler;146956
The trick is that he could cast Armageddon himself, with the exact same disastrous result for him!

Look at the number of skeletons. Plus, several health points are divided among the opponents. If he cast it, there would essentially be no way for him to lose.
DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.
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Offline Timnk
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Guys, don't make a mountain out of a molehill; it was just a mistake due to my inexperience with online play...
My opponent cast Armageddon. I had the Sphere of Vulnerability. And I thought that this would remove all immunities, including those of his dragons. And even if HE were to cast Armageddon, that's why I attacked.
In other words, I was counting on my opponent simply eliminating all his dragons when he cast Armageddon. But then, I also had the bright idea to attack with my main forces, and that's how I lost the game.
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Offline AmberSoler
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Timnk;146965
Guys, let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.
Everything's fine, ;) we just had a little disagreement, for some variety, so to speak... In reality, the whole situation is quite obvious, but we just need to argue about something... :D

Added 5 minutes later
Timnk;146965
My opponent cast Armageddon. I had the Sphere of Vulnerability. And I thought that this would remove all immunities, including those of his dragons. And even if HE cast Armageddon, that's why I attacked.
That is, I was counting on the fact that when my opponent cast Armageddon, he would simply destroy all his dragons. But then, I decided to attack with my main forces and lost the game.
I just needed to be a bit clever... That scout, who was scouting the enemy's position, could have taken the Sphere of Vulnerability with him and not run away after scouting, but instead, bravely died in an unequal battle. :)

The Sphere would have remained with the opponent among the trophies - it's unlikely that he had all the slots filled in the second month of the game. And then he would have been "lucky" to be affected by his own Armageddon, because he wouldn't have had time to move the "bomb" to his inventory - everything ended on your turn... :D Well, this works great against computer opponents, but maybe not against a real person... Although, who knows...
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Offline Timnk
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The situation was that he came to my main Castle with his main hero, who had those dragons. He thought he would catch me off guard because it's rare for someone to come with their main hero and dragons that have immunity. In the heat of battle, he made a mistake. There were many possible outcomes, but as they say, haste makes waste, and he ended up making a fool of himself. :)

In the future, I need to be more careful and avoid making hasty conclusions.
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