Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

I'll join in too: all of this is mostly "if only," "maybe it could be like this," or "it could be done that way..." What can I say—all these options are possible; regarding heroes, Pandora's boxes, and even guild magic, it's all a matter of probability. Well, you built the magic, found a Pandora's box, got lucky—let them use it. There should be some chances for those who aren't professionals; there has to be at least some kind of surprise for interest's sake, it's more interesting that way. You could go as far as banning external buildings or Dragon Utopia, but enough with the restrictions already. Let the players twist and turn and win however they can, otherwise, it'll become some boring game without surprises.
Are we here to play, or are we inventing rules just to make everything bland and uninteresting, coming up with some kind of DRESS?
I look at you guys and think—you're overcomplicating things way too much. Maybe I say this because I don't have that much time for games, but just take it and play; it's not a job.
I probably missed one thing—maybe some people enjoy diving in that deep. Well then, sorry, please go ahead, decide, restrict, but you forget one thing—this is all a game, and we are here to play. What if many people don't like all these complexities and complications? You start forgetting yourself what is allowed and what isn't. Hasn't it happened to you—you play and play, and then the opponent asks "is this allowed," "and this," "and that," and you start trying to remember... some nonsense, and you end up missing a turn in the process, damn it)))) .
I think there are enough restrictions.
Now, to the point.
I am for:
- allowing the camp (agree)
- regarding spec heroes—the university is banned by the rules, so developing one magic or another is a matter of probability; restrictions up to level 3 are sufficient.
- Pandora's boxes—leave them as they are.
- wings, flight, door—I agree on picking artifacts for breaking through guards, only because at this stage, no matter how you look at it, it won't be important anymore; almost all guards can be broken through (I won't dwell on it).
- Necros—no need to restrict them, cross out the Castle when you're scratching things out if it's too hard for you to play against them (it's hard myself, but definitely possible)
- regarding scrolls, leave as they are.
- regarding home castles—leave as they are (I won't try to prove anything, I believe so because capturing a secondary on the first or 2nd day is practically impossible, etc...).
That's it. :smile26: :smile26: :smile26:

I would like to comment on what SS-D said.
To some extent, I agree with you about the difficulties in understanding every detail of the rules, which at first glance may seem too complicated and impossible for players who don't want to delve into all of this (especially for those who play rarely), but just want to play. But it has already been repeatedly said that these rules are, so to speak, a template of provisions, according to which controversial moments are resolved, which sooner or later may arise. Some play exclusively for fun, others only for the rating, and still others for both. But I would like to make it so that everyone is happy. If you play for the rating and only the result is important to you, then please find an opponent with the same ideology, play, delve into the rules, make sure that your opponent does not violate them, and in case of a violation, demand that a technical defeat be awarded. If you play for fun? Play without rules or agree on any rules between yourselves. According to reports on ranked online games, people play in different ways, and no one forbids it. All this is discussed before the start of the game via ICQ, so that there is evidence, but if you don't remember some small detail, then you can discuss it during the game, but again, only in writing. I don't remember everything myself, and in one recent game, when I found a mercenary camp, but I don't remember if it's allowed or not, and there is no time to read the rules. I asked my opponent, are we using it or not? We agreed that this object cannot be used in this game, and we continue playing calmly. There was a case where my opponent (I also had this happen more than once) passed by a moved guard, he just didn't notice it. He immediately wrote to me about this, and we agreed that he would simply go back and continue. Sometimes the guards are such that it is impossible to determine who is guarding whom or what, especially when moving from one to another identical respawn points, and this guard also guards some other object. Sometimes I agree to play with someone, and he doesn't know the rules and doesn't want to delve into them. Then I write to him the main points that are very important to me, and the rest is not so important. And nothing, we play. I absolutely don't see any difficulty in this. No one forces anyone to play with a person with whom they don't want to play for one reason or another. Play with whoever you want and trust.
Recently, a fairly large number of players have started playing for the rating: there are newcomers who want to learn how to play, there are experienced and strong players, there are no less strong players from other resources who play according to their own rules, which have been tested and optimized on their own mistakes for more than one year. They are trying to convey to us what is already quite natural for them, and we, so that we do not repeat the pitfalls that they have already gone through. I personally listen to such opinions and analyze the advantages and disadvantages of such proposals, and then draw conclusions.

- Necromancers - don't limit them, remove the Castle when you remove them if it's too difficult for you to play against them

Well, this is not a solution, understand. Why constantly remove Necromancers, thereby completely removing this race from the game.
Regarding native secondary skills, IMHO, let them be, because there is nothing specific and substantial that can be written in the rules about this, and you can always agree individually before the game. A bigger problem for me personally is winning against Necromancers in the form they are in with us, and a native secondary skill is just a small thing.

Dear forum members,
In my opinion:
1. Prohibit upgrading vampires until bone dragons are built.
2. Allow Isru and Vidomin, with a restriction on necromancy skill progression to expert level until they reach level 10.
3. I, for example, understood the rules in such a way that the use of specialized spells (Solmyr, Demir, etc.) is prohibited until the corresponding level of the guild of mages is built. This needs to be stated more clearly.
4. Allow the use of prohibited heroes if they are released from prison and have 10 or higher experience level (while using specialized spells with the specified restrictions).
5. Dear Invisible, I am requesting again that you clearly state that prohibited heroes must be dismissed after reaching level 3 or higher.
6. Otherwise, leave the rules unchanged.

1. Prohibit upgrading vampires until after building Bone Dragons.

+1 Not a bad compromise.

2. Allow Isru and Vidomin, with a restriction on upgrading Necromancy to Expert level until they reach level 10.

+1 Similarly.

3. For example, I understood the rules in such a way that the use of specialized spells (Solmyr, Demir, etc.) is prohibited altogether until the corresponding level of the Mage Guild is built. This needs to be stated more clearly.

I've made some minor adjustments. Thank you for your help. I apologize for the many inaccuracies in the rules right now. I see this myself, and this week I will remove the inaccuracies, and also radically revise the rules, according to the opinions left in this thread. Therefore, I very much ask everyone who has not yet expressed their opinion (and who is concerned about this issue) to do so as soon as possible. The sooner we decide, the sooner we will have correct rules. :)

5. Dear Invisible, I am asking again to clearly state that after reaching level 3 or higher, prohibited heroes must be dismissed.

excerpt from the rules

I would like to draw attention to the fact that prohibited heroes can be used (including using their specialized spell/skill) until they reach level 3, after which they must be dismissed on the same day.

I'm sorry, I thought this point was clear to everyone. A hero reaches level 3 and must be dismissed on the same day, that is, not when his level becomes higher than three, but when he reaches level three.

[QUOTE=invisible;145909
excerpt from the rules

Sorry, I thought this point was clear to everyone. The hero reaches level 3 and must be dismissed on the same day, that is, not when his level becomes higher than three, but when he reaches level three.[/QUOTE]
Then, please correct it: If the aforementioned heroes reach a level higher than three, they must be dismissed within the same day.

You probably didn't understand again. According to the rules, you need to dismiss a banned hero when he **reaches** level three, not when **his level becomes higher than three**.

Dear forum members.
IMHO:
1. Ban the upgrade of vamps until bone dragons are built.

It seems to me that this is also wrong, because bone dragons are often placed as early as the second week, and by the third week there will be so many vamps that you could break Dragon Utopia and various guards like wings, books, etc. using ONLY them—without losses (or a rival without losses just using vamps :) ).

2. Allow Isre and Vidomin, with a restriction on upgrading necromancy to expert until they reach level 10..

This also seems wrong... Since level 10 can be reached very quickly (sometimes even in the first week), and necromancy specialists are cheat-like because they get an additional 5% level, and at level 10 even with advanced necromancy they will already raise more than other Necromancer who have expert necromancy; but if you let them upgrade to expert necromancy as well—then around level 20 (+ -) they will be turning nearly 100% of killed units into skeletons, and that will once again make the necro unkillable and unplayable...

3. For example, I understood the rules to mean that the use of profile spells (Solmir, Demir, etc.) is prohibited entirely until the corresponding level of the mages guild is built. This needs to be written more clearly.

I wrote that for such a rule point (you just can't use profile spells against humans until the guild is built, but against monsters you can (since this obviously cannot be tracked anyway, and replaying all battles with neutrals for 4th magic specialists would be maddening), but now, by the rules—they cannot be upgraded (only up to !! level 3), but the magic itself can be used immediately... (in principle, this interpretation of the rules regarding specialists also makes sense, so decide for yourselves what to leave there...)

4. Allow the use of banned heroes if they are released from prison and have experience level 10 or higher (while using profile spells with the specified restrictions)..

I believe that it should be allowed—but by imposing the same restrictions as if such heroes come at the start... (if upgrading is only allowed up to level 3, then a hero from prison can only be upgraded by +1 level; if he gets +2 levels, you are obliged to fire him on that same day). If these were magic specialists—and the rule is that magic against a human can only be used upon building the guild—then it's the same with them: only after building the 4th level guild can magic be used against a human. If a necromancy specialist arrives with expert necromancy skill and the hero himself is level 10, I suggest specifying in the rules that you don't have to fire him, but upgrade him by no more than one additional level (i.e., as soon as the necromancy specialist gets +2 levels, you will be obliged to fire him); but if the necromancy specialist still has advanced necromancy skill—then play with them to your heart's content up to whatever level you want, just don't upgrade their necromancy to expert and that's it...

2 Invisible. I think I understand.))) I was quoting the rules, and I'm asking to correct this line in the rules.))

If the aforementioned heroes reach level 4 or higher, they must be dismissed on the same day.
.....
I would like to point out that banned heroes can be used until they reach level 3, after which they must be dismissed on the same day.

Dear Invisible One, if X=3, then this is a specific case of X<=3. So why talk about the first situation when the second situation excludes it?
: )

Ah, Vampires, Vampires, what are we going to do with you? :)

and even at level 10, even with advanced necromancy, they will raise more undead than other undead with expert necromancy.

If I'm not mistaken, advanced necromancy = 20%, expert = 30%. Vidomina and Isra at level 10 with advanced necromancy have 20% + 5% for each level = also 30%. This is the idea behind Decontaminator.

I think I understand.))) I was quoting the rules, and I'm asking to correct this line in the rules.))

You should have said so right away ;) , otherwise it's hard to tell where the criticism is, where the requests are, and where it's just teasing :rolleyes: Okay.

Dear Invisible Man, if X=3, then this is a special case of X<=3. So why talk about the first situation when the second situation excludes it?

My bad, I'll fix it :smile33:
Wow, so many flaws were found after this topic was created. Thank you.:smile20: It's about time. I can't even keep up with answering everyone anymore))).
But I'm most worried about the vampires right now. What should we do with them? Ban them or...?

It's about time.

That's exactly what me and Terminator were talking about ;) And maybe after that, they'll actually start building dragons if we allow vampires:smile04:

Ah, Vampires, Vampires, what should we do with you? :)
But right now, I'm most worried about the vampires. What should we do with them? Ban them or what?

In my opinion, vampires should be banned!!!! The enhancement spell should also be banned!!!

Regarding Vidomina and Isru, I'll say that if we introduce a restriction on leveling up Necromancy to Expert, then we can allow them.

P.S.: I'll probably get flamed for this, but I would still suggest banning Galtran (or limiting him to some level, maybe 16), rather than poor Aislinn.

Ah, Vampires, Vampires, what are we going to do with you? :)

If I'm not mistaken, advanced necromancy = 20%, expert = 30%. Vidomina and Isra at level 10 with advanced necromancy have 20% + 5% for each level = also 30%. This is the idea behind the Decontaminator.

Oops, I didn't read carefully enough :rolleyes:. If that's the case, it's better to simply limit the number of necromancy specialists by not allowing them to raise necromancy to the expert level, and that's it (and if they manage to level up more than level 10, it's not a big deal, and let more than 30 percent skeletons come (let this be compensation for the fact that up to level 10, fewer skeletons will come than for a regular necromancer)).

Well, as for the vampires, of course, ban them, what else is there to think about? :)
Either skeletons or vampires, either one or the other turns the necromancer into a complete cheat, and no one will let him play.

1. Online battles are held using any version of HoMM3.

If that's the case, then when playing in In the Wake of Gods, it's possible for "privileged" heroes to appear (Jel, Dragon, etc.) + on some fixed versions, Mutara and Xeron may be available (I've seen it myself).
Of course, this is a very rare occurrence, but it's still possible, so I think some of them should be added to the ban list!

P.S.: In some rule variations, Loenis is banned. Should he also be banned? Although, I don't think anyone plays as him...

I want to outline some conclusions from our discussions regarding changes/additions to the rules for ranked online games of Heroes of Might and Magic:
...Banned heroes: all heroes with a specialization in magic level 3 and higher (there will be a list of all heroes, but I can't remember everyone right now, so I won't list them yet; Loian doesn't have any overpowered abilities, but let him be banned as well, in my opinion, to make it easier to remember, since he has a magic specialization of level 4), Jale, Dragon, Xiron, Mutare, Sir Mullich, Luna, Ciel. In addition, magic specialists above level 2 are prohibited from using their primary magic against their opponent (they can use it against neutrals). Of course, we could ban them from using it altogether, but it will be extremely difficult to monitor. Isra and Vidomina are prohibited from leveling up the "spellcasting" skill to the "expert" level (that is, they can be leveled up until the spellcasting level becomes expert, after which they must be dismissed on the same day)...
...Angel Wings can be used without building a Guild Hall level 5... (indeed, it can be very frustrating when you take a utopia with decent losses, and it gives you Angel Wings, Boots of Levitation, and a Captain's Hat :D, and besides the utopia, wings are rarely found on the map).
...It is allowed to use mercenary camps...
I don't think it's worth banning the construction of native secondary structures, except for monsters of level 6 and 7 (I'm not sure about this, but I think it would be too much, because the opponent will be developing two castles, and you will just be watching, admiring your hated native secondary structure).
If the week of any monster that is "native" to one of the players falls, then one of the players has the right to request that the autosave of the blue player from the seventh day of the previous week be loaded. In this case, the autosave is loaded until the week of a neutral creature falls. (I may not have worded this correctly, so please correct me if necessary; I'm writing this quickly; I didn't make this point strict, but only if one of the players requests it, because I rarely pay attention to it myself and don't want to receive complaints because of such a minor thing). If "Plague Month" falls, then also, at the request of at least one of the players, the autosave of the last day of the month of the blue player is loaded until the "plague passes by" :).

- regarding specialist heroes - the University is prohibited by the rules, so developing one or another magic is a matter of probability.

According to the current rules, the University is not prohibited, but in my opinion, it should be.
...It is possible to fully use banned heroes who have been released from prison, even if they are above level 3, but they can only use their primary spells against the opponent after the corresponding Guild Hall has been built. They can be used against neutrals. If Isra or Vidomina is released from prison with an "expert" level in the "spellcasting" skill, then in this case they must be dismissed on the same day... (I don't know what to do here if Mullich is in prison, and I also don't know the profiles of the heroes from Warlords, Mutare, Kilgor, etc., so I'm waiting for advice on this issue).
...In Necropolis, upgrading vampires is prohibited until Bone Dragons are built; the Necromancer's Amplifier can be built... (I myself have forgotten the day when I last built Bone Dragons when playing as Necropolis; due to the mandatory buildings such as Guild Hall 1, Converter, and Amplifier in the early days when playing as Necropolis, dragons may not be built even on the second week, and on the third week, Beholders and Utopias are taken without much difficulty and for other castles, so Necropolis will not have such a pronounced, early breakthrough without losses on the 2nd week of Beholders, etc., using only vampires).

I am waiting for comments on possible shortcomings, errors, and inaccuracies, as well as additions in case I missed or forgot something. I tried to take into account the opinions of everyone who expressed them. Thank you for your attention and help!