Posts from Rules for offline tournaments for Heroes of Might and Magic IV.

Having become a tournament organizer, I encountered a problem: the imperfection of the rules for offline tournaments in Heroes 4..
They are good, but not complete and not precise.. Which you all know perfectly well, as questions arise at every tournament: "is this allowed or not?".. "Oh look, a new bug, what should we do about it?". Since it is, of course, incorrect to change the rules in the middle of a tournament, I suggest we use this thread to discuss all issues regarding the rules.. Share your ideas and suggestions.. And we will discuss and decide everything.

To start, I will provide the existing rules currently in effect, so there is something to rely on and build from..

Offline Tournament Rules

1) It is forbidden to use cheat codes during the final walkthrough of a save.

2) Restarting or any other modification of the starting save is forbidden.

3) Use of the "spacebar" key.

3.1. Use of the "spacebar" is FORBIDDEN when boarding a boat.
3.2. Use of the "spacebar" is FORBIDDEN when disembarking from a boat to the shore.
3.3. Use of the "spacebar" is ALLOWED when pulling a killed hero (grave) from under monsters.

4) Bugs - SaveBag

4.1. Shifting monsters using saving - FORBIDDEN.
4.2. Additional hero upgrades related to saving - FORBIDDEN.
4.3. 65000 arrows for Elves using saving in battle - FORBIDDEN.
4.4. Grail excavation - e.g., running past all idols, finding the Grail's burial site, then loading a "good" save and attempting to dig up the Grail without visiting the idols - FORBIDDEN.

5) Bugs - SinglBag

5.1. Overcoming obstacles on land, i.e., when dragging units from top slots to bottom slots with the mouse, they end up, for example, behind bushes that are normally impassable (the player does nothing forbidden, uses the mouse, and units lose some of their movement points during this operation).
ALLOWED.

5.2. Overcoming obstacles when disembarking from a boat to the shore, i.e., landing on the shore without an indicated landing possibility (no anchor visible on the shore), again done with the mouse, unit movements are reset (spacebar is obviously forbidden - see point 2).
ALLOWED.

5.3. Upgrading hero graves with a thief. Upgrading hero graves with a Grandmaster of Stealth.

PURPOSEFUL upgrading of a grave in this manner is FORBIDDEN.

NON-PURPOSEFUL upgrading of a grave in this manner is ALLOWED.
You must be able to logically explain why you were forced to accidentally upgrade a grave and why it was unavoidable.

5.4. Upgrading a grave using regular units on attack, defense, or speed crystals (sapphires) in battle, or increasing magic points.
FORBIDDEN.

5.5. Units carrying a grave are allowed to visit stables, oases, wells, and other objects that increase movement points.
Therefore, EVEN PURPOSEFUL movement of a grave through these objects is ALLOWED.

5.6. Using a hero's spellbook via their grave on the adventure map.
FORBIDDEN.

6) The use of "completely Dead-end Hiding Spots" on the battlefield is forbidden.
(I will explain in more detail for those who don't understand. I consider a "Dead-end Hiding Spot" to be a COMPLETELY enclosed area, for example by rocks or logs, which has a small island for a unit, such as a fairy, harpy, vampire, etc.
Meaning, a place where it is impossible to enter by land with a unit of the smallest size (3x3) and can only be accessed by air—a sort of natural fortress). Having such a spot, one fairy could pummel a hundred Black Dragons and win an impossible battle; to prevent such situations, I forbid the "Dead-end Hiding Spot" in this tournament.

7) Discussing the tournament on the forum while it is ongoing is FORBIDDEN!!!
(Players who violate this rule automatically forfeit the chance to play the tournament; their results will not be counted and will be annulled).

8) EVERYTHING ELSE IS ALLOWED.
(unlimited number of heroes on the map beyond eight, and so on).

A "non-dead-end hiding spot" or, more accurately, a semi-open one, is allowed in this tournament.
By semi-open hiding spot, I mean a place where a unit or Hero can enter on foot, while attacking monsters, regardless of their size, must be able to reach the Hero or unit to strike them (the point of a Semi-open hiding spot is to limit the number of monsters attacking you simultaneously); besides, it's not the way—sitting out in a hiding spot while the enemies waste themselves on whatever. Our Heroes fight with visors open.

Now I await your suggestions... Although, in my view, rule points No. 1, 2, and 7 are not open for discussion!

Regards, Luchik!

Well, now I'm waiting for your suggestions... Although, in my opinion, rules 1, 2, and 7 are non-negotiable!

I agree.
And yet, I suggest making the minimum number of restrictions. List these prohibitions – allow everything else. I'll try to throw in another idea :)

1. Prohibition of using a space to embark and disembark a hero onto a boat. By the way, there's a trick where you can load the same type of units from the shore onto a boat without losing the boat's turn.
2. Prohibition of moving monsters using load-save.
3. Prohibition of elves getting an extra bunch of arrows in battle.
4. Prohibition of digging up the Grail without a fully revealed puzzle map.
5. Prohibition of leveling up a Necropolis on Rogues or on a hero with the "Camouflage" skill – in my opinion, this is no longer relevant, as it has already been fixed.
6. Infinite hero leveling due to map errors. (Once I saw this – near a Fortress, there was an ambush that respawned after it was destroyed again and again).
7. Prohibition of obtaining super-armies.
.
.
.
???

I believe that the listed points will not cause controversy. Should we add more prohibitions to the list? Suggest them. Regarding hidden ambushes – we can prohibit them, or we can not. We can sometimes alternate this prohibition with its permission. There is also one controversial point regarding Minotaurs. I suggest considering a battle unwinnable if a smaller group of Minotaurs is subjected to attacks more than 2 times in a round, with damage that is incompatible with the survival of this group of Minotaurs.
In other words, a battle of one Minotaur against 21 Creatures (one stack) is allowed to be won, but a battle of one Minotaur against 21 Creatures divided into 7 stacks of three should be considered unwinnable :)

I'll be waiting for clarifications and discussions. Don't put too much pressure on the prohibitions :) You will get tired of studying the rules yourself :) And there's no need to cut out features from the game – it will be more boring to play :)

Well, what happened to this thread? There are always so many arguments in tournaments... but here, suddenly, it's quiet. I'd like to hear more comments and discussions about IronAxe's suggestions; I won't add anything personally for now. I'm waiting for your responses and opinions...
By the way, in the thread about the 9th game, there was a question about the Grail. Here's a quote from IronAxe:

A tomb with a full supply of movement points can unearth the GRAIL on the same turn it is brought to the excavation site. I'm just assuming that the unit has to precisely drop the tomb into the correct spot. I suggest allowing this and also point 5.4 as a logical continuation of the permissions regarding tomb technologies.

So, there's still a lot to discuss...
Come on, don't be silent. You wanted to discuss the rules... but now what?:rolleyes: Anyway, I'm waiting for some activity:smile12:

Best regards, Luchik!

I think that it's impossible to list all the bugs in Heroes 4; there are some that we don't even know about yet... :) Also, I think there are players who, after finding a new bug, keep it to themselves and successfully use it to their advantage!

I think it's impossible to list all the bugs in Heroes 4; there are some we don't even know about yet... :) Also, I think there are players who find a new bug, keep it to themselves, and successfully use it!

You might be right about some things, but we have an Iron Champion who knows about many bugs and is still looking for more. And as soon as he finds one, he will definitely let us know and explain what the bug is. And I'm 100% sure he wouldn't hide them.

2) Prohibited is restarting or any other modification of the initial save file.

This prohibition will become meaningless in future tournaments if other users do not have this map. Consequently, it should not be a standard map. There is no need to offer the map for download anymore. It is sufficient to download the save file and start playing. The save file works without the map.

7) Discussing the tournament on the forum during its course is PROHIBITED!!!

What if a question arises during the map playthrough? For example, some obvious bug? Should I write a private message? And if many people participate in the tournament? I think it should be added: Discussing the tournament on the forum during its course is PROHIBITED, except in cases of detecting bugs, impassable areas (etc.)!!!

What if a question arises during the map walkthrough? For example, what if there's an obvious bug? Should I write a private message? And what if many people are participating in a tournament? I think it's necessary to add: Discussion of the tournament on the forum during its execution is PROHIBITED, except in cases of detecting bugs, impassable areas, etc.!!!

That's exactly why the organizer should test their map. And there's no point in entering a raw map into a tournament. An obvious bug is not something to be taken lightly; it's a disgrace to the organizer.

I agree, but we all make mistakes! Everyone has the right to err... There's nothing shameful about it. And in this case, the rules prohibit posting about a bug... Although it would certainly ease the burden on the organizer...

Well, dear fans of Heroes 4... The next official tournament is just around the corner... And the discussion has stalled since last year... That's not good... I understand that everyone agrees with the existing rules, right? Or will there be a flood of posts again at the start of the tournament, demanding that this be banned and that be allowed? Come up with your suggestions, start discussions... After all, you will be playing according to these rules, so don't stand aside... What do you agree with from what has already been listed? What else should be removed or changed?
Don't be silent; if you have nothing more to add, just write that everything is okay, and the topic will be closed as unnecessary...
I'm just disappointed by such indifference... Knowing that the arguments will start again, I just don't understand it... Sorry for being so direct...

With respect to everyone, Luchik!

I think discussing the rules and various nuances is a good and necessary thing, but ultimately, the final list of rules should be left to the organizer of specific tournaments. By allowing or disallowing certain elements, you can make the map more interesting to play. :)

Well, at least someone responded))) Thanks, Leshik))
In general, you're right, in each individual tournament, depending on the goal, map, etc., the rules will change slightly, but there should still be some common points for all tournaments!

Hmm, I think it would be worth banning the ability to pull a grave out from under monsters. In any case, it's unlikely that this could happen in offline mode, that a player would simply let their hero be defeated by neutral creatures, lose all artifacts, and possibly their army. In that case, they would just reload.

Hmm, I think it might be worth banning the ability to pull a tombstone out from under a monster. In any case, in offline mode, it's unlikely that a player will simply let their hero be defeated by neutral creatures, lose all artifacts, and possibly their army. In that case, they would just reload.

Well, it's not that simple. Maybe they actually want to kill it on the last turn, and then move it somewhere far away and revive it there. The main thing is that these points should be common to all, and whether or not to implement them should be decided by the organizer of a particular tournament:smile02: :smile02: :smile02:

Well, it's not that clear-cut. Maybe he wants to kill it on the last turn instead, then drag it to the middle of nowhere and resurrect it there. The main thing is that these points should be common for everyone, and whether to implement them or not should be left to the organizer of each specific tournament.:smile02: :smile02: :smile02:

Brilliant idea. Take your hero to the middle of nowhere — let the host go looking for him!)) You should also bury him in the ground and draw a map — like, find the tree with a scary face, move the screen 12 cm to the left, then 3 cm down, center it, close your eyes, frantically wave the mouse while uttering shamanic incantations, and — voila! — your mouse is on my dead hero!:D