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Posts from About changes and/or combining Hero Specializations.Auto-translated
The main question of the topic is: how much and to what extent can a Hero's Specialization be changed (beyond the "RPG file")? The main points at the moment are: 1) Is it possible to change/replace existing specializations themselves? 2) Is it possible to supplement existing specializations, at least with effects from already existing other specializations? 3) Is it possible to create new Specializations from scratch? Or do they need a "template" like creatures, Abilities, and other things, which cannot be easily created? --- --- -- * The question of whether it is possible to change a hero's Specialization is not relevant here. We can already give, for example, Rutger the Specialization of Rylag. The point is about changing the specializations themselves and their effects, which they will give to the hero.
Added 7 minutes later For a simple example, let's take the following: Let's say we want to create a new Specialization for Nibros based on existing ones, specifically by removing his bonus to Luck and adding Krag's Specialization. That is, as a result, we want to get the following effect. "The opponent cannot use Tactics. At the beginning of the battle, your hero performs a special attack, and the strength of his attacks increases by 5% for each level."
-- Or another example, where we, for example, want to create a Specialization for the Order based on Tents. Based on Kaspar's Specialization. But since humans do not have a Plague Tent, we want to give another bonus as compensation. For example, part of the "Perfect Knight" Specialization or a constant Divine Strength from Isabel's passive ability.
The main question of the topic is: how much and to what extent can a Hero's Specialization be changed (beyond the "RPG file")? The main points at the moment are: 1) Is it possible to change/replace existing specializations themselves? 2) Is it possible to supplement existing specializations, at least with effects from already existing other specializations? 3) Is it possible to create new Specializations from scratch? Or do they need a "template" like creatures, Abilities, and other things, which cannot be easily created? --- --- -- * There is no question about whether it is possible to change a hero's Specialization. We can already give, for example, Rutger the Specialization of Railag. The point is about changing the specializations themselves and their effects, which they will give to the hero.
Added 7 minutes later For a simple example, let's take the following: Let's say we want to create a new Specialization for Nibros based on existing ones, specifically by removing his bonus to Luck and adding Krag's Specialization. That is, as a result, we want to get the following effect. "The enemy cannot use Tactics. At the beginning of the battle, your hero performs a special attack, and the strength of his attacks increases by 5% for each level."
-- Or another example, where we might want to create a Specialization for the Order based on the Tent. Based on Kaspar's Specialization. But since the Plague Tent is not available to humans, we want to give another bonus in compensation. For example, part of the "Perfect Knight" Specialization or a permanent Divine Strength from Isabel's passive ability.
Changing specializations is only possible by delving into the .exe file or by creating them with scripts.
Changing specializations is only possible by modifying the .exe file. Or by using scripts.
As I understand it, scripts will only work within a single map, not for the game as a whole, right?
But if we're talking about the script-based version, it would be good to have more details. This could be useful for one of my projects, to create more interesting Hero-Bosses, without being limited to campaign-specific overpowered abilities.
I understand that scripts will only work within a single map, not the entire game, right?
But if we're talking about the version with scripts, it would be good to have more details. This could be useful for one of my projects, to create more interesting Hero Bosses, without being limited to campaign-specific overpowered abilities.
I think you should check out the NHF project, and if possible, contact its authors. There, special abilities are distributed not only to one map, but also to many others. And there are some very complex special abilities that I'm not even sure can be implemented with standard scripts. As has already been noted, without an executable file, special abilities will be limited to the boundaries of a single map.
The problem with NHF is that the scripts must be enabled on the map, so the map files are run through a special program before the game.
As I understand it, this program itself is in an executable file, and a set of maps is run through it. If you need to add heroes from NHF to your map, you just need to add it to the executable. As I wrote earlier, complex special abilities, like the one described above – a mix of Nibros and Krag's special abilities – cannot be created with standard scripts. In my future map for Kaspar, I initially wanted to give him a combined special ability – his tent ability + a special ability for liches (like Lucretia's ability for vampires), but I abandoned this idea because it cannot be done with standard scripts, only through manipulations with the exe file. Maybe I don't know some nuances, and it can be done more simply).
As I understand it, this program itself is in an executable file, and it runs a set of maps through it. If you need to add heroes from NHF to your map, you just need to add it to the executable. As I wrote earlier, complex special abilities, like the one mentioned above – a combination of Nibros and Krag's special abilities – cannot be created using standard scripts. In my future map for Kaspar, I initially wanted to give him a combined special ability – his tent ability plus a special ability for liches (like Lucretia's ability for vampires), but I abandoned this idea because it cannot be done using standard scripts, only through manipulations with the exe file. Maybe I don't know some nuances, and it can be done more simply).
lol, I guess I'm stuck in 2016. Back then, there was a separate patcher for maps.
lol, I guess I'm stuck in 2016. Back then, there was a separate patcher for maps.
"As I understand it, this program is in an executable file, and a set of maps is run through it. If you need to add heroes from NHF to your map, you just need to add it to the executable" - this was more of a question from my side than a statement. I played a standard map with NHF relatively recently, maybe two months ago, and it was enough to just run the correct executable. At least the standard maps were included, while fan-made maps probably need to be run through it, but I didn't find this utility in the package. I don't know, maybe I didn't pay attention, and it was somewhere in the mod archive.
Maybe I'm not the first to come up with this, but I have an idea for an experiment. I was recently messing around with poisons and noticed how the amount of damage inflicted by Poison is defined for Assassins and Manticores. (I used to think the latter just had Animal Poison, like Wyverns, but it's actually a third type altogether...). Basically, the question is, can you, knowing how or what, enter new values into the RPG file? In other words, there's Regeneration for Hydras, and it's defined specifically as a Regeneration value for Hydras, not Regeneration as an ability. What if I try to do the same for my Cyclops and set a different value? And if that works, can I enter the missing data for Hero Specializations and Skill effects in the corresponding sections?
--- --
*I will, of course, test it, but I'm also interested in the opinions of others (I don't think I'm the first to think about testing this).
Maybe I'm not the first, but I had an idea for an experiment. I was recently messing around with poisons and noticed how the amount of Poison damage is defined for Assassins and Manticores. (I used to think that the latter just had Animal Poison, like Wyverns, but it's actually the third type...). In short, the question is, can I, knowing how or what, enter new values into the RPG file? That is, hypothetically, Hydras have Regeneration, and it is defined specifically as a Regeneration value for Hydras, and not Regeneration as an ability. What if, for example, I try to do the same for my Cyclops and set a different value? And if this works, can I enter the missing data for Hero Specializations and Skill effects in the corresponding sections? --- -- *Of course, I will test it, but I am also interested in the opinions of others (I don't think I'm the first to think about testing this, though?)
I recommend testing))) otherwise, in 2021, we also reached the third levels of city improvements through general discussions and trial and error =) And it all started with the fact that I wanted 10 creatures in the city and army xD
Thank you, Zobr, for the idea, and Zakhar for the implementation (and most importantly, for explaining how to do everything correctly).
Added 1 minute ago
P.S. I was also tormented by ideas, what if I enter a new bonus into DefaultStats, like in Heroes 3, but for the Arena of Magic (+2 to Code or Knowledge of your choice)
Perhaps not intentionally, but I achieved something. This happened during the restructuring of creatures in the League. -- -- -- It turned out that creature specializations are tied not to the Tier, but to specific "crates." That is, if we systematically change the Tier or even the race of a creature, the Hero, or rather, their Specialization, will remember it and will work specifically with them. For example, after Minotaurs became Tier 5, Kifrah's Specialization automatically started working with them, and her starting army changed to be similar to other Tier 5 Specializations (Creature Tier 1 + Tier 2 and one Tier 5 unit). The same happened with the Tier 6 Specialization in the League. After Witches were moved to Tier 3, the Specialization still remembered them and worked with them. However, since Erin is not a "standard" Specialization based on creatures, her army became like that of ordinary heroes (as it was before) - the same can be said about the Goblin Specialization. Its Specialization is formally Tier 1, but it starts with a regular army. *The starting army itself is defined in the "RPG file," so I don't see the point in discussing it further. --- -- -- As a result, what does this give us? By systematically rearranging creatures by Tier and Faction, we can indirectly transfer creature specializations, adapting them to another creature. For example, by systematically swapping Goblins and Faeries and giving Kigan or Dirael's Specialization, we can make them a non-standard Specialization for Faeries. (They will receive weekly reinforcements of Faeries or Greydrakes, if available). The "Wyvern Tamer" Specialization can also be transferred and adapted to another creature, and the bonuses from it can also be edited in the "RPG file," as it is defined there. *Of course, I'm not talking about the simple rearrangement of "standard Specializations" - it's clear that Laslo's Specialization can be changed, for example, into a Specialization for Monks, giving humans a Tier 5 Specialization.
«Кто хочет, тот ищет возможности, кто не хочет — ищет причины»
Perhaps not intentionally, but I achieved something. This happened during the restructuring of creatures in the League. -- -- -- It turned out that creature specializations are tied not to the Tier, but to specific "crates." That is, if we systematically change the Tier or even the race of a creature, the Hero, or rather their Specialization, will remember it and will work specifically with them. For example, after Minotaurs became Tier 5, Kifry's Specialization automatically started working with them, and her starting army changed to be similar to other Tier 5 Specializations (Creature Tier 1+2 and one Tier 5 unit). The same happened with the Tier 6 Specialization in the League. After Witches were moved to Tier 3, the Specialization still remembered them and worked with them. However, since Erin is not a "standard" Specialization for creatures, her army became like that of ordinary heroes (although it was like that anyway) - the Goblin Specialization can be included here. Its Specialization is formally Tier 1, but it starts with a regular army. *The starting army itself is defined in the "RPG file," so I don't see the point in discussing it further. --- -- -- As a result, what does this give? By systematically rearranging creatures by Tier and Faction, it is possible to indirectly transfer creature specializations, adapting them to another creature. For example, systematically swapping Goblins and Faeries and giving Kegan or Dirael a Specialization, making them a non-standard Specialization for Faeries. (they will receive a weekly reinforcement of Faeries or Greydrakes, if available). The "Wyvern Tamer" Specialization can also be transferred and adapted to another creature, and the bonuses from it can also be edited in the "RPG file," as it is defined there. *Of course, I'm not talking about the simple rearrangement of "standard Specializations" - it's clear that you can remake Laslo's Specialization, for example, into a Specialization for Monks, giving humans a Tier 5 Specialization.
I hope this suits you, but I was disappointed in this method after a mod shifted Griffins to Tier 6; in one scenario, I had to fight 40 Griffins, not at level 4, but at level 6. The mod went to the trash
Are these definitely verified conclusions?
Because when I was testing and adding the third tier of creatures, I thought that the special ability for creatures was hardcoded to specific creature IDs.
But when I started adding them, it turned out that the special ability also works for new creatures, if they belong to the same faction and the same Tier.
For example, the Razak buffs golden golems with his bonuses; these are new IDs, but they belong to the Academy and are also on Tier 3.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Let's take Necropolis as an example; it has two creature specializations. I can create a specialization, say, for Liches, only by overwriting one of the existing ones. I cannot add it as a third creature specialization, right?
Correct me if I'm wrong. Let's take Necropolis as an example; it has two specializations for creatures. I can only create a specialization for, say, Liches, by overwriting one of the existing ones, and it's impossible to add it as a third creature specialization, right?
That's correct. To create a specialization for Liches, you'll need to either modify the specialization of an existing Necropolis hero, such as Orson. Or borrow from another Faction, for example, "steal" the Orc specialization from the Orcs and systemically swap it with the Lich specialization. You can also create a "non-standard" specialization, like the Witch specialization for the League or the Wyvern Tamer. You can "steal" the Centaur specialization from the Orcs (its difference from the regular one is that they also receive an attack bonus at the beginning of the battle, proportional to the hero's level) or the Tier 1 Gnome specialization (which, in addition to stats, also buffs HP) 🤔
The main thing to remember is two simple rules. 1) If you simply modify an existing specialization to another Tier of your Faction, there will be no problems. 2) If you take a "foreign" specialization for Creatures, for example, from another faction, don't forget to give them another specialization in return, or remove their Hero from access.
Added 2 minutes ago Waterfall_13
Are these conclusions definitely verified?
Because when I was testing and adding a third tier of creatures, I thought that the creature specialization was hardcoded to specific creature IDs. But when I started adding them, it turned out that the specialization also works for new creatures, if they are creatures belonging to the same Faction and the same Tier. For example, Razaz buffs Golden Golems with his bonuses; these are new IDs, but they belong to the Academy and are also Tier 3.
I was also thinking about this and want to test it. (This is also an important detail for me for future modifications) I think that the connection sounds like "N Creature and its Upgrades," i.e., the connection goes to the base version of the Creature and then to all those listed as its Upgrade 🤔
I hope this works for you, but I was disappointed with this method after a mod that shifted Griffins to Tier 6; then, in one scenario, I had to fight 40 Griffins, not level 4, but level 6. The mod went to the trash.
Yes, there is that. Moreover, we have already noticed that such changes also affect the Random Creature Generation. It seems that "random generation" is also more tied to specific creatures, although then I have questions about how it could have worked correctly in mods like ЕВА (mods where completely new creatures were added) 🤔
There are no problems with the method. Since my modification is currently exclusively for Multiplayer/Co-op. The playability of Campaigns and Scenarios "died" already at the stage when we removed the Orcs. 😅
Added 4 minutes ago In any case, I'm glad that this topic didn't die in the title. Who knows, maybe we'll find something else later.
«Кто хочет, тот ищет возможности, кто не хочет — ищет причины»