On-line rating (discussion) — Tournament Committee

Registered: 10/22/2007

Posts: 2,296

#65 11/13/2007 6:34 PM UTC

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Gentlemen! Let's not escalate the situation. Regarding adding points, I think it's really unnecessary. Regarding the judge, he is indeed needed (and even better, two judges). Because, as mentioned above, anything can happen, and two players may disagree with each other. But with a judge, he says it, and that's it! It's the same in all sports! In esports, the judge is even more relaxed; they won't harass him like they would a football referee, for example :D And I think we shouldn't attack the person who is doing this for us (SS-D). He wants to do something good, but some people criticize him so much that it makes him lose the desire to do anything.

Registered: 7/29/2006

Posts: 1,299

#66 11/13/2007 7:24 PM UTC

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Regarding the judges – I see the point..., but is it really necessary for a judge to be a moderator? Wouldn't it be sufficient to consider a person who has gained recognition and is a reasonable Homo Sapiens as the ultimate decision-maker? For example, someone whose respect among forum members is already established. This option would eliminate problems associated with moderators being overloaded and the absence of a judge.
Regarding adding or subtracting points – as my humble self understands it :), the author of the idea is guided by (and this is primarily about fair goals) the fact that an "experienced" player will not prove his "high skill" in the game only with rare victories, i.e., he will not skip games in order not to give a chance to overtake him to beginner Heroes players. BUT, if you look at it from the other side, we see all sorts of falsifications of various game moments and outcomes, agreements between opponents. Sometimes even (of course, depending on the situation) a draw for both can be suitable (how to deal with an agreed-upon draw, I really have no idea at all), by the way, this issue also needs to be considered ;). If all this is taken into account, then it is clearly (again, in my humble opinion) that subtracting points should be the only option. With respect.

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

Registered: 9/26/2007

Posts: 192

#67 11/13/2007 7:40 PM UTC

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OK, I didn't think about such agreements, that's fine, but I don't know who to talk to about the moderator, and I don't know if they will agree.

SS-D:smile17:

In reply to SS-D

Registered: 7/29/2006

Posts: 1,299

#68 11/13/2007 7:48 PM UTC

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SS-D;126774

OK, I didn't think about such agreements, that's fine, but I don't know who to talk to about the moderator, and I don't know if they will agree.

But you should try! You never know...

P.S. Send me a PM if they resist :D

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

Registered: 9/26/2007

Posts: 192

#69 11/13/2007 8:18 PM UTC

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HOW MUCH TO SUBTRACT? IS IT A CONSTANT VALUE, OR DOES IT DEPEND ON THE OPPONENT?

SS-D:smile17:

In reply to Ley

Registered: 9/8/2007

Posts: 39

#70 11/13/2007 9:14 PM UTC

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Ley;126772

Regarding the judges – I see the point..., but is it really necessary for a judge to be a moderator? Wouldn't it be sufficient to consider a person who has gained recognition, a reasonable HomoSapiens, as the ultimate decision-maker? For example, someone whose respect among forum users is already established. This option would eliminate problems associated with moderators being overloaded and the absence of a judge.
Regarding adding or subtracting points, as my humble self understands it:), the author of the idea is guided by (and this is primarily about fair goals) the fact that an "experienced" player will not confirm his "high skill" in the game only with rare victories, i.e., he will not skip games in order not to give a chance to beginner Heroes players to overtake him. BUT, if we look at it from the other side, we see all sorts of falsifications of various game moments and outcomes, agreements between opponents. Sometimes even (of course, depending on the situation) a draw for both can be suitable (how to deal with an agreed-upon draw, I really have no idea at all), by the way, this issue also needs to be considered. If all this is taken into account, then it is clearly (again, in my humble opinion) that subtracting points should be the only option.

Sincerely.

I suggest offering this position to Storm, because he is a VERY strong player,:smile13: and has experience in this area. The tournament he organized was a great success, and in case of disputes between players, he and his experience will be able to resolve the situation.
P.S.: It doesn't matter how many birds you have under your avatar, it still doesn't mean anything. And I don't see a more worthy candidate for the position of judge than Storm.:smile21:
Sincerely

Мне больно видить Белый свет,
Мне лутше в полной темноте.
Я очень много много лет,
Мечтаю тока о Воине.:smile08:

#72 11/14/2007 4:29 AM UTC

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I think SS-D deserves more support, because most people just criticize. It's not an easy task; the person spends their time and energy, and in return, they don't get anything good in return. Instead of criticizing, it would be better to offer suggestions (this doesn't apply to everyone!!!). Or maybe someone could volunteer to be a judge; maybe SS-D himself could be the judge. After all, it's his idea, and I think he should decide who will be the judge, and we can only offer advice, but the decision will remain with him!

In reply to Draga Musa Welli

Registered: 7/29/2006

Posts: 1,299

#73 11/14/2007 7:12 AM UTC

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Draga Musa Welli;126787

I suggest offering this position to Storm, as he is a VERY strong player and has experience in this area. The Tournament he organized was a great success, and in case of disputes between players, he and his experience will be able to resolve the situation.

Perhaps it would be worth mentioning what his "strength" is? Location, etc.... Personally, I haven't encountered his skills, but anything is possible... I can suggest one person, but for this, it is necessary to agree with him. And in general, this is just a suggestion (regarding the fact that he would also be suitable as a non-moderator), and we are already taking it so seriously...

Sincerely.

Added 2 minutes ago

Dmitriy767;126828

I think SS-D needs more support, because most people criticize him. It's not an easy task; the person spends their time and energy, and in return, they don't get anything good in return. Instead of criticizing, it would be better to offer your own suggestions (this does not apply to everyone)!!! And maybe someone will volunteer for the role of a judge, maybe SS-D himself will be the judge; after all, it's his idea, and I think he should decide who and what will be, and we can only advise, and the decision will remain with him!

Criticism is needed, IMHO. But the main thing is not this, the main thing is the result of the poll ;)! And it is necessary to share your ideas, and criticism is not critical here :), - this is only beneficial, especially since there are more followers of this idea...

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

In reply to Ley

Registered: 9/13/2007

Posts: 754

#74 11/14/2007 8:11 AM UTC

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(or even better, two judges)

In my opinion, two is the minimum, but three would be better. This would allow for redundancy, as a judge might also be playing and unable to judge their own games. But this is for the future – when all players have become familiar with each other and the skill level of each participant has been determined, it will be easier to choose judges. Initially, I think one judge is enough, but they should have a good skill level, be able to analyze replays, and be balanced and reasonable. At the same time, the judge should visit the forum frequently. Ideally, this person should have moderator privileges, but for now, I think we can do without moderation.
I haven't played with many people on this forum yet, but I can suggest the following candidates, although I don't know if they will agree:
1. ewgeniy - a good player, balanced, reasonable, and often visits the forum. I think he would be an unbiased judge.
2. vbn - a good combination of a good online and offline player. An offline specialist should be well-versed in replays, which is important when analyzing controversial situations. He is also a frequent visitor to the forum. :)
3. Kyle - I don't know his online skill level, but he is a good offline player, a moderator, and often visits the forum.

I think SS-D needs more support, because most people criticize him.

And what are we doing here? Criticism is necessary. :)
SS-D, if you already have rules for conducting matches, it would be helpful to publish them to identify any inaccuracies, etc. I think this is one of the main issues that needs to be discussed.

Registered: 9/26/2007

Posts: 192

#75 11/14/2007 8:24 AM UTC

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The rules for ONLINE battles haven't been canceled, just so you know!!!
Maybe I'll add some bonuses.
AS FOR THE ADDITION OF NEW RULES, EVERYTHING YOU'VE WRITTEN HERE WILL BE IMPLEMENTED.

SS-D:smile17:

In reply to SS-D

Registered: 9/13/2007

Posts: 754

#76 11/14/2007 5:09 PM UTC

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vbn has agreed to take on the role of the first judge for ranked online games. Does anyone have any objections to this candidate?

Registered: 9/26/2007

Posts: 192

#77 11/14/2007 5:13 PM UTC

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AS REQUESTED BY MANY
The following number of points will be deducted for a loss:
L=S/2
where S is the number of points the opponent scored for defeating you.
WHAT DOES THIS RANKING SYSTEM PROVIDE:
A higher-ranked player will have more points deducted for a loss, while lower-ranked players will have fewer points deducted.

SS-D:smile17:

In reply to invisible

Registered: 7/29/2006

Posts: 1,299

#78 11/15/2007 7:56 AM UTC

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invisible;127013

vbn has agreed to the position of the first judge for ranked online games. Does anyone have any objections to this candidate?

Personally, I'm not against it. :)
And in general, how many judges are planned?

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

In reply to Ley

Registered: 9/13/2007

Posts: 754

#79 11/15/2007 8:44 AM UTC

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Actually, how many judges are planned?

In my opinion, at least two judges are needed, and if this idea is actually implemented and becomes successful, then three would be good (although I thought that maybe that would be too many, because, hopefully, there won't be too many controversial moments; rather, I hope there won't be any at all :). But since players will be playing every day and situations may arise at any time, and judges are also people, two is just right! :smile20:
When we discuss the rules, we need to create four topics:
1. Meeting place (where players will find opponents)
2. Reports of games from the winners with mandatory confirmation from the losers
3. Online Player Rating, where the table itself will be, the principle of calculating rating points, and the rules of the battles will be published, which, by the way, we haven't yet compiled/discussed.
4. A topic where various controversial issues and their solutions will be discussed.
And then, forward to the battlefield :smile13: :)

Registered: 9/26/2007

Posts: 192

#80 11/16/2007 10:03 AM UTC

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WELL, LET'S SUM UP THE RESULTS BASED ON YOUR INPUT, OF COURSE.
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS. I INITIALLY THOUGHT OF THIS AS SOMETHING CASUAL, BUT BASED ON YOUR FEEDBACK, I REALIZED IT HAS TAKEN ON A MORE PROFESSIONAL APPROACH (NO NEED TO WRITE THINGS LIKE "WHAT DID YOU THINK?").

THERE'S NOTHING PARTICULARLY REMARKABLE HERE, SO TAKE A LOOK:

RULES FOR RANKED MATCHES

1. The rules of official online matches apply (read them just in case), with the following exceptions:
City selection is random (or as agreed upon), the map is random (size as agreed upon), there are no restrictions on heroes (except for Diplomats),
THE USE OF DIPLOMACY IS PROHIBITED (we're trying to determine who is stronger, not who can gather more allies), joining forces without diplomacy is allowed. A hero who, for some reason, gains diplomacy (e.g., from a "noob" player, or you bought him that way) is considered prohibited and must be removed after leveling up twice.
2. Try to discuss all restart conditions with your opponent before the game (if you want them to be possible).

3. Cartographers are allowed (if you're lucky, you're lucky). It is allowed to collect artifacts together.
4. If a guarded artifact or Pandora's Box is lying around and can be taken for free, take it (just don't drool all over it :D).

Formula for calculating points in case of victory.
1. Formula for calculating if the opponent's rating (rank) is higher
_________________________________________________________________________________1/6
S=(10+2*log(Pсоп-Pигр)-(N1-1)/3+N2/3)/ (N1) *5

2. Formula for calculating if the opponent's rating (rank) is lower
_________________________________________________________________________________1/6
S=(10-2*log(Pигр-Pсоп)-(N1-1)/3+N2/3)/ (N1) *5

In case of defeat::smile34:
For a loss, the following number of points will be deducted:
L=S/2
where S is the number of points scored by the opponent for winning against you.

Decoding the letters:

S - points for victory
Pигр - player's rating (yours) in the table
Pсоп - opponent's rating in the table
N1 - number of victories against this opponent
N2 - number of losses against this opponent

I THINK YOU'VE SEEN THE TABLE; if anything changes in it, it won't lead to anything tragic.

THERE WILL BE NO BONUSES FOR A STREAK OF WINS OR LOSSES (for now, but we'll see).

Maybe I missed something - let me know

SS-D:smile17: