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Posts from The latest expansion pack has been released. Now, certain things are clear.

2.3 (3 ratings)
In reply to Solo
18 years ago
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Solo;126400
I disagree. And secondly, do you think the graphics in the first and second games were less cartoony? You are currently reasoning like a grandpa who plays dominoes, who doesn't recognize computer games in principle and who exalts the interest of playing dominoes to the seventh heaven.

Thanks for the "grandpa who plays dominoes," I had a good laugh, even though the analogy is out of place and incorrect (I hope you won't argue with this, as we are initially discussing graphics, and furthermore, your comparison lapses into a different (fundamental) difference).
As for the cartoonishness: You aren't asking a yes/no question; you are moving into a comparison. Were HoMM I and II less cartoony? – yes, less so (but that doesn't mean they weren't cartoony at all!). Now let's also remember the release years and think about what was possible to do with sprite graphics back then, alright?
And let's talk about the trend I mentioned in the post you are replying to: let's look at the transition of sprite graphics again from I to II and then to III. I personally claim that the cartoonishness of the graphics is decreasing. Now let's look at HoMM V: the degree—which is exactly how you are reasoning (more or less)—of cartoonishness has increased. At the same time, one must not forget the graphical capabilities available to the developers of each part (which, by the way, martians also mentions).
martians;126441
LFB
well, since we're talking about graphics... the transition to 3D in the fifth game was successful, but I agree with those who miss the graphics of the third. simply out of all the Heroes games, this is the only part where the rendering is less cartoony, more serious, so to speak. for those who don't understand what I mean, look at how the manticore looks in the fifth =)
if it was technically impossible in the times of the second, today's developers had a choice—and it's a pity they chose a cartoon...

Yes, the transition to 3D was successful, but there was a loss of individuality (see my posts above, I spoke about this). Otherwise, I completely agree. Thank you.
Ludoed;126432
To hell with the plots, the main thing is that they are logical; plots are secondary, gameplay + nuances are primary... For example, why does a Castle, destroyed after a siege, recover immediately? Could this process not have been made gradual? And why spend so much effort on alternative upgrades if, for example, repeat upgrades for some unit types could have been made?! And why can everyone have exactly 7 squads under their command? Many such small "whys" can be asked, and that's where the interest comes from...
As for the plot, I hope that in the 6th part, it will become alternative; the ability to influence events is what makes a game truly interesting!:cool:

Regarding destroyed castles: please understand that by striving for greater realism, you lose the structure of the world. This is a game rule, even if it may seem illogical to you. It is foolish to nitpick the degree of realism, for example, in the game "Monopoly" (the game name can be changed, it's just the first thing that came to mind);
Regarding alt. and repeat upgrades and the number of squads: this is called balance. Understand, for example, that the difference between alternative and repeat is too great (just look at the meaning of the words).
And furthermore, it is precisely from these "many such small whys" of yours that the game is formed, that the uniqueness of the gameplay is created. For example, demanding more realism from all games means dragging everyone in one direction (remember the simplifications and accepted rules, otherwise you'll simply be playing a computer simulation of life). But this is not a call for a total rejection of realism and logic (any extremes are bad!).
In reply to LFB
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18 years ago
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LFB;126563
Let's talk about the trend I mentioned in the post you're replying to: consider the transitions in sprite-based graphics from I to II and then to III. I personally argue that the cartoonishness of the graphics decreases. Now let's look at HoMM V: the degree, and this is how you reason (more or less), of cartoonishness has increased. And we shouldn't forget about the graphical capabilities that the developers of each part had (which, by the way, martians also points out).

I was just making a comparison regarding the graphics. Honestly, I don't see a trend towards more cartoonish graphics. Can you really say that "Shrek" is more cartoonish than "Hedgehog in the Fog"? Your position is painfully reminiscent of an old man saying, "Back in my day, there were really interesting cartoons! But now..." (maybe the domino analogy wasn't the best).
In reply to Solo
18 years ago
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Solo;126564
I was just drawing a comparison to the discussion about graphics. Honestly, I don't see a trend towards making things more cartoonish. Can you really say that "Shrek" is more cartoonish than "Hedgehog in the Fog"? And your position painfully reminds me of an old man saying, "Back in my day, there were really interesting cartoons! But now..." (maybe the domino analogy was less successful).
First, it's incorrect to compare different animated films: "Shrek" is in no way a continuation of "Hedgehog in the Fog," so there's no trend here, I'm sorry (in relation to our conversation). You can compare "Shrek" to "Shrek 2," but that comparison won't help us here, unfortunately. Second, no matter how much I remind you of an old man in my reasoning, we're not talking about interesting/not interesting, understand? I'm not saying that HoMM V is worse/better, more/less interesting, so the example is again incorrect, I apologize. We're talking exclusively about graphics, and we're specifically discussing cartoonishness, not beauty or interest, for example. I also mentioned uniqueness earlier, but that doesn't fit your statement either.
You don't see a trend, but I do, what can I do?! I see that by maintaining a positive trend in this direction, we will ultimately get more cartoonishness (maintaining is the key word here), and that's what was said at the beginning of our discussion. Reread Olga's message again so that we don't stray into another topic (I'm trying to discuss it within its framework).
In reply to LFB
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18 years ago
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LFB;126568
Firstly, it's incorrect to compare different animated films: "Shrek" is in no way a continuation of "Hedgehog in the Fog," so there's no trend here (in relation to our conversation). You can compare "Shrek" with "Shrek 2."

Then, it's also incorrect to compare the third game with the fifth. The fifth game, in terms of graphics, is also not a continuation of the third. Let's wait for the sixth game and see what the trend is in 3D. And why did you immediately criticize the "first 3D attempt"?
In reply to Solo
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18 years ago
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Solo;126564
I was actually drawing a comparison to the discussion about graphics. Honestly, I don't see a trend towards making things more cartoonish. Can you really say that "Shrek" is more cartoonish than "Hedgehog in the Fog"? Your position reminds me of an old man saying, "Back in my day, we had really interesting cartoons! But now..." (maybe the domino analogy wasn't the best).

Let's compare in a different way: "Shrek" is a cartoon, but it's interesting and appealing to adults (although kids watch it too, but they only understand the most superficial meaning). Or, for example, "Corpse Bride" – I enjoy watching it. But, for example, no normal adult would watch the infamous Teletubbies. What distinguishes cartoons for children is a naive plot and a childishly appealing visual style. Like little goats, kittens, and puppies. (I'm writing this and I'm horrified – I have to explain obvious things, I'm becoming banal). Now, let's smoothly move on to the graphics (specifically the graphics!!!!) of the fifth game – little devils, imps, puppies... Doesn't that remind you of anything? And let's take the graphics of the fourth game (oh, now the Heroes of Might and Magic experts will come down on me!) – again, just the graphics – for example, the black dragons. They look like they were drawn from life. They walk heavily, and you can almost hear them breathing. Yes, the fifth game is, of course, a breakthrough, it's 3D and all that. No one is arguing. But what if that black dragon was in 3D... So that the kids would run away from the monitors crying...
I repeat: I'm talking about the graphics. Well, I'm a designer, what can I do... But I still enjoy playing the fifth game. But it doesn't hurt to dream.
In reply to Werevolka
18 years ago
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Solo;126581
Then, comparing the third game to the fifth is also incorrect. The fifth game, in terms of graphics, is in no way a continuation of the third. Let's wait for the sixth game and see what the trend is in 3D. Why did you immediately criticize it as the "first 3D attempt"?
Let's define what we are comparing and how. We are comparing HoMM V to HoMM III as a continuation in general (which cannot be said about your example of "Shrek" and "Hedgehog in the Fog"). Then we discuss trends in one plane of games, one of which is a continuation of the other. And in terms of graphics, of course, there is no need to compare sprite and 3D models, who would argue?! I repeat once again that we are talking about the cartoonishness of the graphics, and therefore the correctness of the comparison is restored.
Of course, let's wait, I'm not against it. The point is that we are discussing a trend, and we are against the trend (relatively to cartoonishness!) being positive in HoMM VI.
It doesn't matter whether it's the "first 3D" or not, we are talking about the conscious choice of direction in the graphics of specific companies. We are not talking about the fact that the models are poorly made and have holes, or about the beauty (this is a completely separate conversation).

2 Olga
Good afternoon, colleague (as it turns out).
Olga;126583
I also enjoy playing the fifth game. But dreaming is not harmful.
Exactly.
In reply to Solo
18 years ago
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Solo
Back then, it wasn't correct to compare the third game to the fifth. The fifth game's graphics also weren't a continuation of the third. Let's wait for the sixth game and see what the trend is in 3D. And why did you immediately criticize it as the "first 3D attempt"?
It's actually quite correct to compare them, at least because the fifth game is a direct continuation of the third. Also, the third game was the first to use 3D, even though it had low resolution and pre-rendered models; it was still created in 3D.

By the way, the discussion eventually came to the conclusion that Heroes 5 isn't very original or beautiful, but everyone still enjoys playing it! So, who was talking about the lack of atmosphere? :D :D :D
I would order the head of Ubisoft to release Heroes 5 with at least 12 races (for example, add invaders from another dimension/planet; that would be original) (because these races are too banal, there's nothing new). Increase the game speed for the AI, enhance magic, create mage and warrior classes for each race, make sieges more complex (ideally, those who are besieging should be 2-3 times more numerous than those defending).
Come on! 12 races, plus alternative heroes (at least 2 per race), multiply that by the number of creatures, and you get an approximate number of elements that need to be balanced. Of course, I'm exaggerating, but each race should have unique features in terms of gameplay mechanics, advantages in one area, and disadvantages in another, also unique. You need to consider the speed of development and the cost in resources, possible combinations of hero skills and creatures... or do you think that these numbers, which are assigned to each creature, are just made up? Creating a strategy with truly balanced races in such a quantity is not an easy task. And you also need to create a unique design and campaign for each race. In total, that's enough work for... well, multiply the development time of the fifth game by 2.5...
AI game speed? People will always take longer to make their moves. =)
I agree with one thing: I would add a technological faction. But just one, and instead of the dwarves. =)
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18 years ago
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just because people are playing it doesn't mean there's a good atmosphere...
they feel "forced" to play because there aren't any other (new) installments, the old ones have been completed (and usually only have online play), and there are some interesting new features in the 5th game, so they want to see and play it... even if the graphics aren't great, and a lot has been taken from other games (races), and there are few objects (art and so on), that doesn't necessarily mean that everything else is poorly done...
18 years ago
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yes, I wrote that as a joke.
actually, as someone rightly pointed out, atmosphere is a matter of personal perception. and besides, if you want to play an atmospheric game, try Myst.
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18 years ago
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Why are you all arguing?! Whether the graphics are childish or mature, I don't think it's that important (maybe over time, I'll create a terrifying dragon that devours peasants and has flames shooting out of its mouth for 10 meters), I enjoy both childish puppet cartoons and adult cartoons, if they are good. We're talking about the game. What's important to me in a game is complete immersion in its world. In "Heroes of Might and Magic III," I was able to achieve this because that world was full of adventures, but here (in "Heroes of Might and Magic V"), it doesn't work: the computer opponents take too long to move, the artifacts are weak, there's no way to find the Tear of Ashera, and there are a whole bunch of other shortcomings. Why didn't they make a sea race? Isn't it obvious that sea monsters are needed? We (and not just us) even came up with an entire race. And there was a vote on their (Nival's) website about whether or not people wanted to see sea creatures in the game. But no! They didn't do it! Maybe I'll do it in "Heroes of Might and Magic VI"?
18 years ago
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the sea race wasn't made because there are no mines in the sea, and you can't walk on it, and many other things. the sea race would stand out too much, if only because the main gameplay takes place on land – what would they do? and if they can freely do without water – what kind of _sea_ race is that?
sea creatures are needed as neutrals, and nothing more...

are the artifacts weak? here, give everyone the Armageddon's Blade! =)) In what way are they weak? If one artifact immediately gives a decisive advantage, that's bad! Buy a lot, collect sets, and you'll be happy! And in general, the strongest artifact is the Shackles of War =)

is there no way to find the Holy Grail? Hmm, actually there is, maybe it's just not placed on the maps...

damn, actually, the topic isn't about this...
In reply to Werevolka
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18 years ago
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Olga;126583
Fifth, there are imps, little devils, doggies... Doesn't that remind you of anything? And what about the graphics of the fourth game – for example, black dragons. Well, if that black dragon were in 3D... The kids would burst into tears and run away from the monitors...

Kids who can turn on a computer and load a game on their own won't run away from 3D black dragons or 4D ones, I assure you. So, let your colleagues from Ubisoft have one more chance to make a "big mistake" with black dragons before you judge the trends in 3D graphics for the Heroes series. Okay, maybe the graphical depiction of demons and gremlins made you think that Pokémon is just around the corner, but what's wrong with "doggies"? And there's also Rajah-Rakshasa, Nightmares... I won't talk about the plot, because everything has already been said.

Added 7 minutes later
LFB;126602
Let's define what we are comparing and how. We are comparing HoMM V with HoMM III as a continuation in general (which cannot be said about your example of "Shrek" and "Hedgehog in the Fog").

I think we agreed a couple of posts ago to talk only about the graphics, leaving aside the plot and "spiritual" aspects. So, the example is quite appropriate here. As for the essence, see above.

Added 7 minutes later
martians;126638
it is quite correct to compare them, at least because the fifth game is a direct continuation of the third – and also because the third game was the first to use 3D, despite the low resolution and pre-rendered models, they were still created in 3D in the beginning =)

Well, forgive me for not knowing such subtleties.
In reply to martians
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18 years ago
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martians;126652
They didn't create a sea race because there are no mines in the sea, and you can't walk on it, and many other things. A sea race would stand out too much, if only because the main Gameplay takes place on land – what would they do? And if they can freely do without water, what kind of _sea_ race is that?
Sea creatures are needed as neutrals, and nothing more...

Are the artifacts weak? Here, give everyone the Sword of Armageddon! =)) In what way are they weak? If one artifact immediately gives a decisive advantage, that's bad! Buy a lot, collect sets, and you'll be happy! And in general, the strongest artifact is the Chains of War =)

Is there no way to find the Grail? Hmm, actually there is, maybe it's just not placed on the maps...

Damn, actually, the topic is not about this...
You probably think we're all idiots? Do you really think that no one has thought about how a sea race would move on land and how resources can be extracted in the sea??!! The generator does not generate such artifacts as "Chains of War" and "Wings of the Angel" on the map (maybe only in shops).
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18 years ago
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With the release of the "Tribes of the East" expansion, I started looking at Heroes 5 in a different light. Before, I thought that Heroes 5 wasn't an interesting game. I played it without much enjoyment and preferred the old, good Heroes 3. The release of the expansion somehow radically changed my opinion about this game. The Orc faction is very interesting, the spellbook is interestingly designed, as are the heroes and their story, and the castle is beautifully drawn. I also liked that the expansion gave a choice of development paths for upgraded units for each faction. And FINALLY, composite artifacts! That's what was missing. Now I can confidently say: - Heroes 5 is a worthy continuation of Heroes 3!!!!
In reply to Solo
18 years ago
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Solo;126653
Kids who can independently turn on a computer and load a game won't run away from 3D creatures or 4D ones, I assure you. Just give your colleagues from Ubisoft another chance to make a "major blunder" with the creatures, before judging the trends in 3D graphics for the Heroes series. Okay, maybe the graphical depiction of demons and gremlins made you think that Pokémon are just around the corner, but what's wrong with the "dog-like" creatures? And there's also the Rajah-Rakshasa, Nightmares... I won't say anything about the plot, as everything has already been said.
And again, you're shifting to a different plane. The main point in Olga's messages (the last one and the one above), as I understand it, was not whether the kids will run away or not, but what the adults want. Where did you get the idea that we are writing off Ubisoft and Nival Int. or not giving them a chance? In this topic, as is clearly seen from its title, we are discussing the final result of what we have received. The last add-on has been released - the topic tells us, and then there is a discussion about what we see now, so your "before judging the trends in 3D graphics for the Heroes series" is incorrect for two reasons: 1. the trend is not in 3D graphics, but in graphics in general; 2. when the final version of a product (in this case, a game) is released, which claims to be or is part of a series, you can confidently talk about the trend, believe me.
Solo;126653
In my opinion, we agreed a couple of posts ago to talk only about the graphics, leaving aside the plot and "spiritual" aspects. So, the example here is quite appropriate. And essentially, see above.
And yet, it's not appropriate, and here's why: we are discussing not just the graphics, but the trend in it. I'm sorry, but comparing completely different products, which, of course, belong to the same class (in the sense of animated films), is still not correct. I repeat, "Shrek" is in no way a continuation of "The Hedgehog in the Fog," no matter how much they might strive for it (just kidding). Therefore, discussing the trend is pointless (unless within the framework of animation achievements).

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