Which level 5 monster is the best?

ОMEGA

11/9/2007 4:41 PM UTC

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Tested 1v1 matches. The Gorgon only kills the Troll if she gets a lucky critical hit with her breath attack; otherwise, she loses. The Minotaur easily defeats the Troll. The Evil Spawn wins about 1 out of 5 battles. The rest lose due to regeneration. Also, the Vampire Lord deals about as much damage as the Troll does – after 36 turns, the Vampire had 31 HP out of 40, and I ended the battle because I was getting bored.

"Let's fly to the most beautiful sky. No matter how many times your wings break, keep trying."©Crono Crusade

РУХ-ЧУДИЩЕ-ОГР

11/9/2007 7:56 PM UTC

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Does a minotaur really defeat a troll in a 1v1 fight? Something seems off. Maybe we're testing things differently?

eXeCuToR

11/10/2007 5:28 AM UTC

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What makes a Lich good? In my opinion, it's quite weak. But Minotaurs are definitely very strong. Personally, I like the Thunderbird the most – it can fly, has a lightning attack, and I just like it. And the others are also quite good – for example, Djinns, with their spells on units – it's very convenient. Everyone has already said everything that can be said about the Gorgon, and of course, Dendroids are also good. But Liches are probably the most useless level 5 unit – the only ranged attacker in the castle, and so weak... the cloud doesn't help much; the enemy won't always be clustered together!

Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

In reply to eXeCuToR

Ley

11/10/2007 7:32 AM UTC

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eXeCuToR;125637

What are the Lich's strengths? In my opinion, it's quite weak. The Royal Lich is probably the most useless Tier 5 unit – the only ranged attacker in the castle, and so weak... the cloud doesn't help much; the opponent won't always be clustered together!

The only one..., yes, it has a pretty good ability ;), it's somewhat reminiscent of a meteor shower :), but it doesn't affect its own units... Well, even if we don't consider the cloud, the Royal Lich is still stronger than the Fanatic, i.e., among ranged attackers, it's only weaker than Titans and Cyclops..., is that really "bad"?

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

fanat

11/10/2007 8:25 AM UTC

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There seem to be a lot of people voting against them; I think they're not even the strongest. I would have preferred the Gargoyle.)))

"Если свет который во мне есть тьма, то какова тогда тьма?"

Ушел в Аллоды Онлайн!:)

In reply to РУХ-ЧУДИЩЕ-ОГР

ОMEGA

11/10/2007 8:58 AM UTC

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RUH-CHUDISCHE-OGR;125607

Does a minotaur really beat a troll 1-on-1? Something doesn't seem right. Maybe we're testing differently?

Let's analyze and calculate.
First, let's calculate the average damage per hit:
1) The minotaur deals 12-20 damage, with an average of 16. Its attack is 15, and the troll's defense is 7, resulting in a difference of 8. Therefore, the damage per hit is 16 * (100% + 5% * 8) = 16 * 140% = 22.4, which we'll round to 22.
2) The troll deals 10-15 damage, with an average of 13. Its attack is 14, and the minotaur's defense is 15, resulting in a difference of -1. Therefore, the damage per hit is 13 * (100% - 5%) = 13 * 95% = 12.35, which we'll round to 13.
Now, let's consider the battle:
Minotaur - 50 HP | Troll - 40
Turn 1
The minotaur is faster and moves 8 cells forward. The troll moves and attacks the minotaur, dealing 13 damage. The minotaur retaliates, dealing 22 damage.
Minotaur - 37 HP | Troll - 18
Turn 2
The minotaur attacks the troll, dealing 22 damage and killing it.
That's it.

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"Let's fly to the most beautiful sky. No matter how many times your wings break, keep trying."©Crono Crusade

In reply to ОMEGA

Ley

11/10/2007 9:17 AM UTC

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Князь_OMEGA;125679

Let's observe and calculate.
First, let's calculate the average damage per hit:
1) The Minotaur deals 12-20 damage, with an average of 16; the Minos' attack is 15, and the Troll's defense is 7, so the difference between attack and defense is 8; therefore, 16 * (100% + 5% * 8) = 16 * 140% = 22.4, let's say 22 damage per hit.
2) The Troll deals 10-15 damage, with an average of 13; the Troll's attack is 14, and the Minos' defense is 15, so the difference between attack and defense is -1; therefore, 13 * (100% - 5%) = 13 * 95% = 12.35, let's say 13 damage per hit.
Now, let's consider the battle:
Minos - 50 HP | Troll - 40
Turn 1
The Minotaur is faster and moves 8 cells forward. The Troll moves and hits the Minotaur for 13 damage; the Minotaur retaliates and deals 22 damage.
Minos - 37 HP | Troll - 18
Turn 2
The Minotaur hits the Troll for 22 damage and kills it.
That's it.

It's a pity that such a mathematical calculation is in vain... The trick is that at the 2nd turn, the Troll will have full health again... regeneration does its job ;). But if we consider a large number of creatures, then undoubtedly the Minotaur will defeat the Troll, that's a fact! :)

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

In reply to Ley

ОMEGA

11/10/2007 9:21 AM UTC

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Ley;125688

It's a shame that such a mathematical calculation is in vain... The trick is that after the 2nd turn, the troll will have full health again... regeneration does its job ;). But if you take into account a large number of creatures, then undoubtedly the minotaur will defeat the troll, that's a fact! :)

The troll regenerates at the beginning of its turn:p And the minotaur will finish it off before the troll regenerates:p

"Let's fly to the most beautiful sky. No matter how many times your wings break, keep trying."©Crono Crusade

Ley

11/10/2007 9:32 AM UTC

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Then, add their damage values to the post. A troll deals 9-14 damage to a minotaur, while the minotaur deals 16-28 damage in return. Theoretically, a single troll has a chance (if the minotaur doesn't deal more than 19 damage in 2 hits), but the chances are so small that it's not even worth considering... :).

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

SpiriTT

11/10/2007 9:53 AM UTC

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Minotaur, the most powerful (in my opinion), but as for usefulness...
you can argue for a long time, but I think no one will deny the usefulness of Djinns. Birds are more useful during sieges - they can fly over walls + lightning attack.
But my vote goes to MINOTAURS!!!

ну это вообще всем аргамездец!© Kash
без авто:smile20:
Человек - игрушка Бога. Этому - то и надо следовать. Надо жить играя.
Платон.

ОMEGA

11/10/2007 10:21 AM UTC

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Ley, do you even read the posts before commenting? I calculated their damage by taking the averages, while slightly increasing the average damage of the troll and slightly decreasing the minotaur's – is that not enough for you?

65RUS

11/10/2007 11:46 AM UTC

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Thunderbird
Firstly, if my memory serves me correctly, to build them (meaning the Rukh birds), you need wolf dens, which means they can be built faster than other level 5 units in the early stages of the game.
They are a flying unit + lightning, ideal for attack.

"Отыщи всему начало, и ты многое поймёшь."
К. Прутков.

Играю тут http://www.heroeswm.ru
Супер онлайн игра по Героям 5.:smile14:

З.Ы. Я вернулся на форум)))

In reply to ОMEGA

Ley

11/10/2007 12:02 PM UTC

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Князь_OMEGA;125704

Ley, do you even read the posts before commenting? I calculated their damage by taking the averages, while slightly increasing the average damage of the troll and slightly decreasing the minotaur's - is that not enough for you?

And why are you reacting like that? Do you read the posts? :) In my last post, I confirmed that 1 minotaur kills 1 troll, meaning on your side...;), and you're practically ready to fight... Just for clarity, it would be good to show the damage so that no one has any doubts, and that's it :)

And regarding your test: you're acting strangely... It turns out that the one with higher speed will be the first to get hit. It should be the other way around. Neither the computer nor a person would act like that... I consider minotaurs to be the 2nd strongest out of the 5th-level units, after gargoyles, and I definitely didn't intend to dispute the fact that they will defeat trolls. I just forgot that they heal specifically on their turn...

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

ОMEGA

11/10/2007 12:30 PM UTC

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Yes, I showed the damage.
As for speed, I don't take waiting time into account because it would be too tedious – a slow unit can stand in defense while a fast unit approaches. If we're going to simulate duels, it should be a straightforward charge, like a bull charging a matador. And anyway, to kill a troll, the Minotaur needs to land two consecutive hits, and in response, it will definitely take one hit, so the result will be the same.

R.A.M.O.N.

11/10/2007 12:47 PM UTC

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1. Naturally, the enhanced Bull is overpowered, it's a complete cheat. 2. Either Woodies or Minotaurs. Woodies have a bonus of 8 + roots, and 65 HP, which are decent attack and defense stats. Minotaurs have the best attack and defense stats + morale and speed. 3. Thunderbirds - speed + attack, and lightning. The rest are subpar, in my opinion.

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