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Posts from The latest expansion pack has been released. Now, certain things are clear.
What do they have to do with it? Or is this a hint that Warcraft is mass-produced, while Heroes 5 is a masterpiece? If so, that's just ridiculous. Alan;125388
The fifth Heroes game is a great game.
Yes, but only in terms of gameplay and the engine.
What do they have to do with it? Or is this a hint that Warcraft is mass-produced, while Heroes 5 is a masterpiece? If so, that's just ridiculous.
Yes, but only in terms of gameplay and the engine.
A hint that the word "always" in your post is a bit inappropriate and inaccurate in relation to the computer games industry.
"Only"????? oO Many companies that want to promote their game for online battles would give anything for such a "limited" feature. In general, thank you very much for this phrase. You have given the game a very high rating. Because for players who play against live opponents and participate in tournaments, even at a semi-professional level, the plot is so secondary that most of them don't even know it well, and companies are lucky if they get halfway through it. Because when, immediately after the release of an expansion, one person writes "the campaign for Arantir is tedious," and another writes "how much more stalkers are now outperforming archers in the early game," the difference in approaches is obvious. And be sure that they will give the game very different ratings.
P.S. Well, I couldn't resist and had to reply... again. In general, it's a pointless exercise when people have a Heroes 3 box instead of an icon. They simply don't want to accept anything new.
P.P.S. And finally. The plot and atmosphere in Heroes ran out in the original two games. And the "The Price of Loyalty" expansion and Heroes 3 were characterized by the same rare absurdity and copying, which you are now trying to attribute to Heroes 5... Let's now remember Homer's "Iliad" or "Myths of Ancient Rome," and then EVERYTHING will be very secondary.
The plot and atmosphere in the Heroes series ran out in the original two games.
Lol. "The Price of Loyalty" has nothing to do with Might and Magic. What was absurd and copied in the plot of the third game? And most importantly, where was it borrowed from? The plot in the fifth game is a complete borrowing and plagiarism from such universes as Disciples, Warcraft, and Spellforce. Plus, stereotypical fantasy plot devices (some of which were borrowed from the third game). There's no need to try to dismiss other people's arguments with the canned phrase "the second Heroes game is the last game with a decent plot." By the way, besides the Heroes series, the Might and Magic world has other games that are directly related to the Heroes in terms of plot. They also have an atmosphere and plot that no game in the HoMM series can compare to.
Alan
18 years ago
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2 XEL, seriously, wasn't there anything? The Queen returns, takes revenge, etc. Have you really never encountered this? Hmm... And why immediately "Disciples, Warcraft, and SpellForce"? Let's dig deeper into where they all "borrowed" from, as I said, we'll go back to the 5th-15th centuries BC.
And show me where I'm "pushing" someone else's arguments? Your phrase "Mass-market products are always more popular than masterpieces" doesn't need to be pushed; it's simply laughable... The Elder Scrolls has been selling for 10 years. Now, give me an example of a "mass-market" product that has had such success or sold more than a million copies worldwide. And about the plot. You once again write that the world has other games. Then maybe it's worth comparing Dark Messiah and the coherence of its plot with the 5th installment, instead of forcing one game to compete with the ENTIRE history of Might and Magic. And of course, congratulations on another successful phrase: "It also has an atmosphere and a plot that all the games in the HoMM series can't compare to." What can be added after that? Probably nothing, because it's simply foolish to compare the ability to tell a story about a world in one game or in an entire series.
And with the phrase "following a script," you, frankly, offended me, because you can't know how well I know the universe and how meticulously I studied the companies and other aspects of the games in the series. In the 2nd installment (with a rather banal plot about a good vs. evil brother... oh, and I've seen this somewhere before, but maybe I imagined it, because THESE GAMES didn't "borrow" anything), there was a very successful presentation of the factions with branching storylines, betrayal, etc.
Where? The Queen in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 isn't seeking revenge on anyone; she's preventing the need for revenge in the future.
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Heroes of Might and Magic 5, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.
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If you were trying to subtly insult me, you chose the wrong approach :). The box for Heroes of Might and Magic 3 isn't displayed anywhere as a substitute for anything, and I don't worship this game.
Okay, I understand. She arrives, everything is in ruins, and raising the griffin banner above her head, she goes to "prevent" further destruction. But does it really matter how you call it??
I think that using these two games as examples is, at the very least, inappropriate. Since we are arguing about their quality, your example doesn't make sense, as they are not "mass-produced" (and believe me, not just for me).
Regarding the box... If you took it personally, I apologize. I didn't mean to "insult" you in any way. As you noticed, it was just a postscript that expressed some random thoughts and was written about "people" (a generalizing term). Perhaps you were confused by the fact that the post started with a quote from your message; in that case, we simply misunderstood each other. I've just written similar posts very often and didn't want to do it in yet another duplicate thread.
Fireball
18 years ago
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If you compare the fifth and third installments, the comparison will likely favor the former in many aspects. Interestingly, according to XEL, Greengeez creates the atmosphere of the game. What about the storyline of the campaigns? Here, the fifth installment offers more than any other part, both in individual missions and overall. The campaigns in the third installment are definitely the worst in the entire series. There aren't even any memorable moments, like the campaign for Goldot in the fourth installment. Graphics? If someone really likes the graphics in Heroes 3, they should find a place for the icon in their home and see what's hanging there. There are definitely some good moments, but there are also plenty of ugly ones. Yes, it's not logical to compare it to the 3D graphics of the fifth installment, as too much time has passed, but the third installment wasn't more beautiful than the other "flat" installments; rather, the opposite. Music? Again, the fifth installment has the best music.
The third installment has many advantages: stability (the fifth installment still sometimes glitches, and the fourth installment consumes a huge amount of RAM), excellent playability, and incredible excitement. But there was never any balance, which is why they came up with so many tournament patches, wild randomness in the power of artifacts and spells, and practically complete consistency regarding the optimal hero upgrade for a specific race and map type, for example, random XL. And even though the hero has 8 slots, Logistics, Wisdom, Earth, Air, Attack, and Defense are almost always desirable, which is already 6 skills. The fifth installment has its own drawbacks, but there, perhaps for the first time in the series, a balance between races appeared. Unfortunately, it's difficult to find people for an objective comparison of the fifth installment with other parts, for example, those who started playing all the parts around the same time and are not particularly fond of 3D, but I know a few such people. And in their opinion, Heroes 5 is far from being at the bottom of the list, and yet the comparison is with masterpieces.
Greengeez
18 years ago
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I wasn't planning on starting a H3 vs. H5 debate here. If you're tired of discussing which game is better, just don't write about it. I didn't write about that, or you misunderstood me. I'm talking about the fact that many people say something like this: "The second and third games are classics and have a great atmosphere. The fourth game is somehow not as good. And the fifth game has that atmosphere again, and even better." Examining the continuity of the fifth part showed a small amount of "original" heritage and a lot of borrowing from other game projects. Therefore, I don't understand what "that very" atmosphere many people are so enthusiastically talking about. I don't see or feel it. I'm addressing people who "are in the know," i.e., have played various fantasy games, see the differences between them, and recognize analogies in individual elements.
Alan. Don't overdo it. The use of other people's ideas should only be considered between products of mass fantasy culture. Attributing "Myths of Ancient Rome" to this is the same as saying that the plot of HoMM2 is about the biblical brothers Cain and Abel. I don't see where the plot of, for example, Heroes 3 comes from. If you think it's derivative, provide examples, give links to where something similar could be seen. I think it will be difficult because there were fewer games at that time, the popularity was not so massive, and there wasn't much to borrow from. In the fifth game, you don't have to look far; it's from other games in the genre, practically all of them.
Solo
18 years ago
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Yes, that very one. Yes, even better. For example, when I talk about the continuity of Heroes of Might and Magic V, I'm not referring to the storyline, but to the game's structure. I think that most people understand "game atmosphere" to mean exactly that.
Werevolka
18 years ago
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Someone, while passionately defending the game in one of the posts above, mentioned that the game was made more appealing to children. I completely agree with this; the question remains: what should adult fans of the game do? Otherwise, we'll end up with something like the Teletubbies or Pokémon. It's impossible to create a game that is equally interesting for both adults and children.
Alan
18 years ago
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2 Greengeez, there's no point in arguing with you, as you present contradictory arguments in a single sentence; you simply need to juxtapose them. I don't need to respond.
I can't see where the plot of, for example, Heroes 3, comes from.
Back then, there were fewer games, and popularity wasn't as widespread, so there wasn't much to borrow from.
It's logical that after 10 years and with more plots written, it's easier to find "these are genre peers, and practically all of them."
And regarding "The use of other people's ideas should only be considered between products of mass fantasy culture." Why are you limiting me with these constraints? Or do you think that game writers only play games and don't see anything else? Do they sit in a room with computers, and only have disks and food brought to them? If you can't grasp a broader perspective, that's your problem, don't impose it on others (when some scenes from the Old Man's videos are taken directly from Aliens, it's discussed. When excerpts from the Bible are cited regarding the plot of the first Diablo, it's considered normal... But Heroes is somehow so pure, and it should only be considered within the genre). About myths... Why not? Aren't there going to be plots that are similar to those found in books/movies/games now? Well, I suppose... And if you don't understand what I mean when I say that the 5th installment is excellent in terms of GAMEPLAY, then that's just your problem. You're trying to steer the conversation towards the plot, but I never said that the plot in the 5th game is brilliant and unique.
2 Olga, here in the chat, some people say that their father got them hooked on the 5th installment of Heroes... This somewhat contradicts your opinion. And believe me, there are quite a few adult fans of the 5th game on this forum.
Starhan
18 years ago
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Heh. No one is saying that the plot is bad, it's just that we've seen it all before... there's no intrigue, and I won't even mention the music and graphics; it would be even worse than in part 3 (which is just laughable).
As it turns out, there are people who started playing the series only with part 5, and their opinion doesn't count. After part 5, it's hard to play the previous installments and appreciate the plot... it seems to them that Ashan is the original universe, and not the old Might and Magic.
I wonder what kind of discussions would arise if Blizzard unexpectedly changed the universe in Starcraft or Warcraft... that's what I mean.
There's one analogy to what's happening now. Imagine a car enthusiast who has seen all the changes in his favorite brand's series over 20 years... of course, people who have only seen the latest model will criticize the previous ones... they simply have nothing to compare them to, and the horsepower is no longer the same, and the body is galvanized, etc. (unfortunately, I'm not a car enthusiast).
What do you think, who of them can better assess the pros and cons of the series?
As a fan of Heroes, I've played all the parts and will play all the parts, and I like them all, but I consider the departure from the old universe and the popularization of the series (targeting the masses and a younger audience) to be a drawback.
Everyone knows that even in the days of part 3, Heroes fans were divided into those who were in favor of pure fantasy and those who were in favor of techno-fantasy; there were roughly the same number of each, but in general, there were more of the former. Naturally, in order to expand the audience, Nival had to create Ashan (to be honest, you could say the same about Heroes 1 and 2).
Maybe someone will understand me (it feels like Linux was given to Bill Gates, and he's still messing around here).
Or here's another harsh analogy... imagine that your spine was removed and inserted into another creature... the musculoskeletal system is the same, but it's not the same anymore, it's not a human anymore.
Hopefully, Ubisoft, after making a lot of money with "mass-market" products, will spend it on a MEGA-HIT Might and Magic 6 for us :) (ah, dreams... dreams...)
What should adult fans of the game do? We'll soon end up with things like Teletubbies and Pokémon. It's impossible to make a game that is equally interesting for both adults and children.
Adults, excuse me, what age are we talking about? I'm 26 and I like the 5th installment. Am I a child?:smile13:
eXeCuToR
18 years ago
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The plot in Heroes of Might and Magic V isn't original compared to what? How is it similar to Warcraft or Disciples? I didn't notice... Besides, I wouldn't say that the plot in Heroes of Might and Magic III is particularly original either, if we're going to be that critical.
I wasn't planning on starting a H3 vs. H5 debate here. If you're tired of discussing which game is better, just don't write about it. I didn't write about it, or you misunderstood me. I'm talking about the fact that many people say something like this: "The second and third games are classics and have a great atmosphere. The fourth game is just not the same. And the fifth game has that atmosphere again, and even better." Examining the continuity of the fifth installment showed a small amount of "native" heritage and a lot of borrowing from other game projects. Therefore, I don't understand what "that" atmosphere many people are so enthusiastically talking about. I don't see or feel it. I'm addressing people who "are in the know," i.e., have played various fantasy games, see the differences between them, and recognize analogies in individual elements.
Alan. Don't overdo it. The use of other people's ideas should only be considered between products of mass fantasy culture. Attributing "Myths of Ancient Rome" to this is the same as saying that the plot of Homm2 is like the biblical story of Cain and Abel. I don't see where the plot of, for example, Heroes 3 comes from. If you think it's derivative, provide examples, give links to where something similar could be seen. I think it will be difficult because there were fewer games at that time, popularity was not so massive, and there was not much to borrow from. In the fifth game, you don't have to look far; it's the games in the same genre, and practically all of them.
Everything you're saying here is almost complete nonsense. In my opinion, the fact that the fifth Heroes game is an excellent game no longer needs any proof or justification. I've played both the third and fifth games. In the third game, what attracts me now are the memories of the past, nostalgia, that music; all of this touches on some chords in my soul. But all of this doesn't make the fifth game a bad game. They (meaning the fifth game) have significantly improved visually, become more balanced, and the battles are more tactical. Many previously unseen features have appeared, and the strategy has become more well-thought-out. Playing as a mage is radically different from playing as a knight. And notice that, despite all the merits of the fifth game (which you stubbornly don't see), I'm not belittling the third game. Therefore, I ask you not to put down the fifth game:smile38:. And in general, I'm surprised that Mr. Alan has the patience to prove anything to you:confused:. Sincerely, Storm///
