Discussion about Dungeon (Dark Elves). — Dungeon

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Registered: 2/3/2007 8:01 AM UTC

Posts: 414

9/28/2007 2:06 PM UTC #545

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Firstly, magic, and especially mass spells (both light and dark), are very helpful in this situation. I always use them.
Secondly, a 20th-level Warlock with expert education and in a real game with artifacts rarely has an attack power of less than 20.
Thirdly, if an Academy mage of level 15-20 starts creating mini-artifacts, they will be left without upgrades and the Mage Guild, as there are still few resources during this period of development.
Of course, mini-artifacts and the partial ability to block enemy magic are a strong blow to any opponent, but in principle, it is not fatal for a Warlock. Also, don't forget about the chain of elements.

In reply to Игрок

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Registered: 1/30/2007 11:44 AM UTC

Posts: 200

10/2/2007 4:22 PM UTC #546

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Player;114839

Firstly, magic, and especially mass spells (in Darkness and Light), are very helpful in this case. I always use them.
Secondly, a 20th-level Necromancer with expert education and in a real game with artifacts will rarely have an attack of less than 20.
Thirdly, if a 15-20th level Mage starts making mini-artifacts, they will be left without upgrades and the Mage Guild, because at this stage of development, there are still few resources.
Of course, mini-artifacts and the partial ability to block enemy magic are a strong blow to any opponent, but in principle, it is not fatal for a Necromancer. Also, don't forget about the chain of elements.

Dear Sir, it seems we have a slight misunderstanding.

I am not claiming that the Dark faction has nothing to counter the Mage or the Dwarf. I was simply opposing the opinion of Nightly Edelweiss, expressed in message #501 in this thread, in which she claimed that the Dark faction's army is just an addition to the hero, and developing the hero as a pure Chaos mage + a corresponding set of artifacts that enhance elemental damage guarantees the opponent will be facing a formidable foe:smile51:

I simply clarified the hero's development, parameters, and level to show that this is not the case.

Regarding developing a hero against the Mage and the Dwarf, I will write about it later.

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Registered: 2/3/2007 8:01 AM UTC

Posts: 414

10/2/2007 4:37 PM UTC #547

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I largely agree with you. When playing against the computer, sometimes just using Hydras is enough to win.

In reply to Игрок

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Registered: 9/17/2007 3:53 PM UTC

Posts: 98

10/5/2007 3:13 PM UTC #548

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Player;115991

I largely agree with that. When playing against the computer, I often only need Hydras to win.

+1 I completely agree! Not only did this happen when playing against the computer, but recently I was playing with a friend on the same computer, and I attacked his army (Haven) three times with only Hydras, defeating him with an enhanced Meteor Shower and then buying out the Hydras! This drove him to the point of frustration:D After the third time, he surrendered because the outcome of the battle between the remnants of our armies was obvious.

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Registered: 10/31/2007 6:48 PM UTC

Posts: 797

11/2/2007 7:14 PM UTC #549

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The discussion seems to have died down... Has anyone played against the Orcs as the Dark Elves yet? I couldn't even come close to beating them. I think that rage and magic suppression are too overpowered for the Dark Elves...

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Registered: 2/19/2007 6:16 AM UTC

Posts: 1,666

11/2/2007 8:59 PM UTC #550

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Were you playing against a real opponent, or was it the AI doing that?

Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

In reply to eXeCuToR

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Registered: 10/31/2007 6:48 PM UTC

Posts: 797

11/3/2007 8:05 AM UTC #551

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Playing on a computer. Haven't tried it online yet. Maybe it's just the computer playing so well... It's clear that the developers taught it the most effective tactics. I was a fairly well-leveled Warlock, and my Ice Bolt dealt 600 damage. But its Chaos magic weakening + Rage reduced the damage to almost zero. I even managed to kill a Cyclops (playing on Veteran difficulty). I didn't have much luck with the guild, though. But I don't think Earthquake would have helped much.

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Registered: 2/3/2007 8:01 AM UTC

Posts: 414

11/3/2007 6:30 PM UTC #552

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Against Orcs, Dark magic is the best option, but since it's difficult for a Warlock to find spells of this school, maybe summoning is worth a try? Or focus on attack, because Chains have been enhanced...

In reply to Vayshan

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Registered: 6/13/2007 6:03 PM UTC

Posts: 4,711

11/3/2007 6:41 PM UTC #553

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Vayshan;123654

I played against the computer. I haven't tried playing online yet. Maybe it's just the computer that plays so well... It's clear that the developers taught it the most effective tactics. I had a fairly well-leveled Warlock, and my Ice Bolt dealt 600 damage. But its Chaos magic weakening + Rage reduced the damage to almost zero. I even managed to kill a Cyclops (I was playing on Veteran difficulty). I didn't have much luck with the guild, though. But I don't think Earthquake would have helped much.

You should focus on Summoning instead of Chaos magic. ;)

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Registered: 10/31/2007 6:48 PM UTC

Posts: 797

11/3/2007 7:08 PM UTC #554

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I don't know... What's available in the summoning options? A Phoenix would be quickly defeated here. And it wouldn't do much damage anyway. If it even gets a chance to attack. Celestial Shield won't protect everyone. Unless you cast Phantom Form on all of them... But that spell needs to be learned first. I'm definitely going to level up Chains soon, but it's not very effective against Orcs. It all comes down to their Rage ability; the creatures themselves are mostly weak.

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Registered: 2/19/2007 6:16 AM UTC

Posts: 1,666

11/3/2007 7:21 PM UTC #555

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And what about raising the dead, or summoning elementals? Wait... who are they going to kill? A PHOENIX?! Wow... I spend several turns trying to kill that thing. Maybe you're confusing a summoned phoenix with a neutral one? They're different. A summoned phoenix is much stronger.

Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

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Registered: 10/31/2007 6:48 PM UTC

Posts: 797

11/4/2007 5:54 AM UTC #556

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Raising the dead only makes things worse. Their health decreases by 20 percent – and with Dark Elves, a large number of hit points is all they have going for them. They have virtually no defense. I'm not confusing the Phoenix with anything else. I've summoned it myself against other factions. But in the later stages of the game, it's not difficult to deal 1000-1200 damage to it. Although I haven't tried it against Orcs... But the best tactic against Barbarians (in my opinion) is to build creatures of the first and second levels, wait a couple of weeks, and then run as fast as you can towards their castle, before their rage ability is fully developed. I've done this and won. But this is only possible if you know where their castle is.

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Registered: 6/13/2007 6:03 PM UTC

Posts: 4,711

11/4/2007 6:35 AM UTC #557

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Is the Phoenix weak??? 1k hit points and 500-600 damage – is that LITTLE???

Vayshan;123910

Raising the dead will only make things worse. Health decreases by 20 percent – and considering that a high number of hit points is what Dark Elves rely on.

Are these Dark Elves??? They're all dying! And even if you apply Raising the Dead to levels 1-2, it might not be bad... but that's not the point. :smile42:

But in the late game, it's not difficult to deal 1000-1200 damage to him. Although I haven't tried it against Orcs... But the best tactic against Barbarians (in my opinion) is to build creatures of levels 1-2, wait a couple of weeks, and run as fast as you can to his castle while his Frenzy skill isn't leveled up.

Uh... actually, a Warlock should be able to conquer ANY castle within a month... now it's clear why your Phoenix is being killed. :p

And in general, in summoning, mines are the most important thing, IMHO. They are evil in the early stages! Having developed summoning magic and 10 scouts, I could kill 50 bears and even sometimes a few Titans (not upgraded)/Rakshasas and other large, not very fast, non-ranged creatures.

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Registered: 10/31/2007 6:48 PM UTC

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11/4/2007 7:09 AM UTC #558

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I didn't say that the Phoenix is weak. If it reaches the archers, they're done for. But when the opponent has, for example, 20 Titans and almost 40 Rakshasas, the Phoenix won't last long. And why are Dark Elves considered weak?! They have a small growth rate because they are strong. Assassins, for example, have fourteen hit points, which not every second-level unit has. Or Hydras. Or Minotaurs. Or Riders. They all have a lot of hit points, except for the Enchantresses.

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Registered: 6/13/2007 6:03 PM UTC

Posts: 4,711

11/4/2007 7:27 AM UTC #559

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Vayshan;123922

I didn't say that the Phoenix is weak. If it reaches the archers, they're done for. But when the opponent has, for example, 20 Titans and almost 40 Rakshasas, the Phoenix won't last long.

Don't let the game reach that stage... for me, a normal siege time for an enemy castle is 3 weeks, 1 month.

And why are Dark Elves weak?! They have a small growth rate because they are strong. Assassins, for example, have fourteen hit points – not every unit at level two has that. Or Hydras. Or Minotaurs. Or Riders. They all have a lot of hit points, except for the Mistresses.

I wouldn't say that the Riders have many hit points... Dark Elf units are expensive because they have high damage and attack.

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