The ninth stage of the Kanigem Tournaments — Tournament history (offline)

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Lu41k

10/1/2007 10:23 AM UTC

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THIRD OFFLINE HEROES 4 TOURNAMENT " Saving Angel "

1. To participate in the third offline Heroes 4 tournament « Saving Angel », you must register on our website and leave an application in this thread.

P.S. This tournament is held as part of the general Van Kanigem tournament, therefore all information, as well as its progress and results, will be displayed in that section.

This stage of the tournament is rated.

2. The tournament is played on the Russian version of Heroes 4: Winds of War by Buka. The save will be generated on the Russian version.

3. Game Goal – defeat the enemy.

The result will be evaluated primarily based on minimum time.
If several players have an equal completion time, the winner will be determined by points; if a favorite is still not determined, then by the amount of mercury.

4. Tournament Rules.

1) It is forbidden to use cheat codes during the final run of the save.

2) It is forbidden to restart or perform any other modification of the initial save.

3) Use of the "space" key.

3.1. Use of the "space" key is FORBIDDEN when boarding a boat.
3.2. Use of the "space" key is FORBIDDEN when disembarking from a boat to shore.
3.3. Use of the "space" key is ALLOWED when pulling a killed hero (grave) out from under monsters.

4) Bugs - SaveBag

4.1. Shifting monsters using saving - FORBIDDEN.
4.2. Additional hero upgrades related to saving - FORBIDDEN.
4.3. 65000 arrows for Elves using saving in battle - FORBIDDEN.
4.4. Digging up the Grail - e.g., visiting all idols, finding the burial place of the Grail, then loading a "good" save and attempting to dig up the Grail without visiting idols - FORBIDDEN.

5) Bugs - SinglBag

5.1. Overcoming obstacles on land, i.e., when dragging units with the mouse from upper slots to lower ones, they end up, for example, behind bushes that are normally impassable (the player does nothing forbidden, uses the mouse; during this operation, units lose some of their movement).
ALLOWED.

5.2. Overcoming obstacles when disembarking from a boat to shore, i.e., landing on shore without an indication that landing is possible (the anchor is not visible on the shore), again done with the mouse; units' movement is reset (space is obviously forbidden - see point 2).
ALLOWED.

5.3. Upgrading hero graves using a Thief. Upgrading hero graves using Grandmaster Stealth.

TARGETED upgrading of a grave in this manner is FORBIDDEN.

NON-TARGETED upgrading of a grave in this manner is ALLOWED.
You must provide a reasoned explanation as to why you were forced to accidentally upgrade the grave and why it was unavoidable.

5.4. Upgrading graves using ordinary units on attack, defense, or speed crystals (sapphires) in battle, or increasing magic points.
FORBIDDEN.

5.5. Units carrying a grave are allowed to visit stables, oases, wells, and other objects that increase movement points.
Therefore, EVEN TARGETED transport of a grave through these objects is ALLOWED.

5.6. Use of a hero's spellbook by the hero's grave on the adventure map.
FORBIDDEN.

6) It is forbidden to use "completely Dead-end external dwellings" on the battlefield.
(I will explain in more detail for those who don't understand. I consider a "Dead-end external dwelling" to be a COMPLETELY closed area, for example by rocks or logs, which contains
a small island for a unit, such as a fairy, harpy, vampire, etc.
That is, a place that cannot be entered on land by a unit of the smallest
size (3x3) and can only be reached by air—a kind of natural fortress). Having such an external dwelling, one fairy could beat a hundred Black Dragons and win an impossible battle; to prevent such situations, I forbid "Dead-end external dwellings" in this tournament.

7) Discussion of the tournament on the forum during its progress is FORBIDDEN!!!
(Players who violate this rule automatically disqualify themselves from playing the tournament; their results will not be counted and will be annulled).

8) EVERYTHING ELSE IS ALLOWED.
(unlimited number of heroes on the map beyond eight, and so on).

A "non-dead-end external dwelling", or more accurately a semi-open one, is allowed in this tournament.
By semi-open external dwelling, I mean a place that a unit or Hero can
Enter on foot, while the attacking monsters, regardless of their size, must be able to reach the Hero or unit to strike them (the point of a Semi-open external dwelling is to limit the number of monsters attacking you simultaneously). Besides, it's not proper for a Hero to hide in an external dwelling while the enemies waste themselves on whatever. Our Heroes fight with open visors.

9) The player is required to save intermediate saves for each game day during the tournament run.
Intermediate saves may be requested by the tournament leader to verify the honesty of the run. If the use of cheat codes, or errors and game features explicitly forbidden in the rules, are detected, the player will be immediately excluded from the tournament.
It is also necessary to save controversial battles (e.g., a hero and a fairy against 100 dragons) so that the honesty of the victory in the clash can be verified.

10) Along with the final save, players are required to send a description of the final battle tactics (the more difficult the battle, the more detailed).
If the win depends on morale\luck rolls\specific actions of computer players, a full description of the battle is required—one that allows it to be repeated.

11) Send the final save to the email address Lu41k@yandex.ru. The sent save must contain the tournament number (3), the participant's number in the application table, the abbreviation (SA « Saving Angel » ), and the player's Nickname. Example: 3_1_SA _Lu41k.h4s

12) The tournament starts on October 1 and will last until October 31 (inclusive). The result will be announced on November 6, 2007.

13) After receiving your save, you will see in the application table that:

the save is accepted - indicated by a Bold Nickname

This list can be added to by new participants!
We invite everyone to take part in the tournament!

Saves will only be considered from players who are in this table, so make your applications IN ADVANCE!!!

PARTICIPANT LIST
NUMBER	*PLAYER NICKNAME*
1	Lu41k
2	:( ~~Starhan~~ :(
3	vbn
4	BigAke
5	IronAxe
6	Undergrounder
7	Arandor
8	:( ~~Kamikaze~~ :(
9	General ZeT
10	ZYbr
11	midzhajj
12	SandroXXL
13	Brackman
14	:( ~~StormS-K~~:(
15	LeSHiJ-Max
16	Fireball
17	Romanuel

Everything about the starting save

1. Download the save.

2. The downloaded save must be placed on your computer in the GAMES folder of the installed Heroes 4.

3. Load it and start playing at any time convenient for you, while remembering to make daily saves.

4. After reaching the final action (after which victory occurs), save again.

5. With the final save, describe this last step in detail (most likely a battle); then the results will be processed faster and there will be fewer suspicions of cheating!!!

6. A full description of the tournament map is encouraged (optional). If such descriptions are provided, a contest for the best description will be held; 10 of them (the very best) will take their place of honor in the "Hall of Fame" section!

7. Send this save to the specified address (in the rules of this tournament).

8. Wait for the results.

P.S. The map "Saving Angel" was taken from www.heroesportal.net, author Kolizey.

I wish all participants enjoyment of the game, a good time, and of course GOOD LUCK!!

With respect, tournament organizers Lu41k and Magnus!
P.P.S. We express great gratitude for help in organizing the tournament to Alan, Kyle, and Pandora! Thank you very much!!!!

ATTENTION all tournament participants!!!! The map and save have been replaced!!! Therefore, I ask you to download the new, edited version of the map and naturally the new save for it!!! Once again, I apologize for this incident and hope for your understanding!

- Changed October 5!

"Как это странно всегда..
Вроде бы взрослые люди,
А в голове ерунда..
Мечтаем как дети о чуде.."

In reply to Undergrounder

LeSHiJ-MaX

11/1/2007 4:48 AM UTC

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Undergrounder;122845

The dependency on difficulty is as follows:
*1.5 .. 1 .. /1.5 .. /2 .. /3
I have complete information about the monsters, in a table in Excel, but I probably shouldn't post it, as the copyright isn't mine. It was created by Aiden (!)=(master did it, yeah!).
But even that (above) description wasn't created manually; it's my program, and I'm not holding back; upon request, I can easily share it. :smile01:

If I understand correctly, the basis is the monster's health, multiplied by the number of monsters, and then a coefficient is applied:smile43:. The question is, does a more difficult level give more or less experience (simply in what order are the coefficients written)?
And what would the program cost? :D

С самого начала позаботься о своем месте в жизни, чтобы не уподобиться маятнику. /Херберт. Ф./
Клан: "Смертельный Альянс" - "Mortal Alliance"

In reply to LeSHiJ-MaX

Undergrounder

11/1/2007 5:48 AM UTC

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LeSHiJ-MaX;122846

If I understand correctly, the experience gained is based on the monster's hit points, multiplied by the number of monsters, and then a coefficient is applied:smile43:. The only question is, as the level gets more difficult, does the experience increase or decrease (simply, what is the order of the coefficients)?
And what will the program cost :D

1. As the difficulty increases, the experience gained per monster decreases.
2. Checking the inbox in a few minutes.

I am not useless - I can be used as a bad example!

In reply to Undergrounder

Romanuel

11/1/2007 6:01 AM UTC

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Undergrounder;122845

I'm doing it slowly... I didn't touch the mages, and on the 2nd level, two heroes dealt with the cyclops.

Please share the save file from the battle with the cyclops, if you have it, or at least the end of this turn.

LeSHiJ-MaX

11/1/2007 6:04 AM UTC

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IronAxe seems to be quiet lately:D

Romanuel

11/1/2007 6:09 AM UTC

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I still can't get used to such a display of skill... I've definitely learned something, but I'm still far from the masters. By the way, I would have had 14 days if it weren't for the caravan. I think I killed it while transitioning from day 15 to 16. But again, it's unclear whether to count it as day 15, 15.5, or 16, because after that, the game ends automatically, and you can no longer move your hero.

In reply to Romanuel

Undergrounder

11/1/2007 6:24 AM UTC

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Romanuel;122850

Please upload the save file from the battle with the Cyclops, if you have it, or from the end of this turn.

I'll do it later today, I don't have time right now.

LeSHiJ-MaX;122851

IronAxe is being quiet:D

Oh, that's not good, that's not good... :D
The message was sent.

I am not useless - I can be used as a bad example!

In reply to Undergrounder

IronAxe

11/1/2007 6:53 AM UTC

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Undergrounder;122845

I'm afraid I won't be the one telling it. Reducing it by one day was quite possible, just too lazy.
And Iron, looks like he did it in 5, since he's refusing 3-4. :)
Hm. I'd also love to hear about the "5 days" :eek:.

No :) I did it in 7 (6 in the table). I think 6(5) is probably possible, but you need to be as savvy with the battles as you are, since you broke through from the respawn with two heroes. I pushed through with a crowd and focused on armor :) because they were hitting me in the head way too much. Moreover, I found it easier to save mana with a crowd.

Undergrounder;122845

I'm just taking it slow... I didn't touch the Mages; on the 2nd day, I took the cyclops with two heroes.

Well, see? :) While I had 4 heroes taking out the cyclops on the second day. Let's call them: Regenerator (Life), Muscle (Life) who had armor+sword from the inner clump, Healer (Life), and Archer. The Nature hero stood aside, otherwise the cyclops would split into two squads. And another bad thing is that the accelerated fairy (A. Fairy) in the Fortress stable had to be moved to the Nature hero as well. This fairy must be guarded like the apple of your eye! Don't let the Nature hero summon a fairy when the accelerated one is in his squad, otherwise that fairy will lose the acceleration from the stable. But fairies are valuable, so at the end of every turn, the Nature hero and the A. Fairy had to be separated.

Undergrounder;122845

Nightmares with boots, ice, vampire nest, Death castle on the 6th (all this with two). Vamps with a grave on the 7th reached the nearest barb castle. On the 8th, a newly bought one finished off the barbs.

It seems to me that this is a weak point in your Walkthrough. On what day did you take the vampire nest? On the 4th or the beginning of the 5th? How long does it take them to get to the central barb castle across the sand? 3 days or 4? Can the Vamps reach it on their own a day earlier? In theory, you can take the vampire nest on the 4th day (I was a few moves short on the 4th, so consider it taken at the start of the 5th turn). In short, for 7(6) in your Walkthrough, it's absolutely necessary to at least take the Vamps on the 4th turn and it's possible (though the heroes' moves will be nearly exhausted), BUT they can't be taken earlier (or am I wrong?). And considering how long they trek through the sand to the central barbs, you can get 7(6) from 8(7) with such a Walkthrough option. But 6(5) is probably definitely not possible. I took the Vamps at the start of the 5th turn and two went for the barbs (Regenerator and Muscle on an accelerated stable fairy, and from the 5th turn onwards they used full turns only with boots) — they reach the central barbs from the vampire nest in two days, using two oases along the way (and in the second one, Regenerator's grave accelerates). And Muscle arrives at the Fortress with Regenerator's grave in his pocket. And Muscle still has about ten moves left, I don't remember exactly. And roughly speaking, on the fifth turn, near the Vampire nest in the swamp, the squad split into two more (and Regenerator and Muscle were still there). The Archer and Healer on a non-accelerated fairy went for the Death castle. And the Nature hero with the vamps went back to the Life Fortress. On the fifth turn, you've got to see :) how these three squads in the swamp passed the boots to each other. Why not — there's only one pair :) But it wasn't possible to take three Fortresses simultaneously. The Death Fortress was taken on the 6th turn. However, one of his heroes remained alive behind the fortress. And the last barb fortress and the life fortress were taken on the 7th turn. On the seventh turn, moves remained for the Nature hero (17) and for Regenerator, who took the last barb castle (12-13). Even if you somehow optimize it so they reach the fortresses on the 6th turn, you'd still need luck so that one of the death heroes doesn't flee the fortress (he had to be pinned down on the 7th turn too). Or the Healer would have to take the Death Fortress alone with the archer's grave in his pocket. Problematic, but probably possible.
PS. What's special about the map? There are no tedious, long looping battles. I had only one such battle and it wasn't key for the Walkthrough. On the last turn, I had to clear 5000 from the graveyard. First, one healer attacked and wiped out the larger half of the zombies from over a hundred, spending all remaining mana. About 40-50 zombies were finished off by two cerberi, easily, though I had to run around a bit :) I wanted to steal the artifact from under the CD using the Healer's grave with the Archer, but there weren't enough units left for that. Because on the sixth turn, 4 imps with all the loot were sent across the swamp in a chain. The purpose of the chain was to catch up with the Nature hero and give him all the loot for the battle with the Life Fortress.

Added after 14 minutes

Romanuel;122850

plz post the save of the battle with the cyclops, if you have it, or the end of this turn.

Let's start throwing saves around after the preliminary results are announced. Maybe ours won't even be needed :) Under, I suggest that after the preliminary results are announced, you post your saves for the end of each turn. It's useful to see how to break through with a small number of heroes, at least from the respawn. I want to see that too. Otherwise, it'll be like those gypsies pushing a locomotive with their butts in a friendly crowd, only to find out a year later that the locomotive had no wheels :)
PS. I mean, after watching the "movie," people will decide which specific battles they'd like to see in more detail.

Arandor

11/1/2007 8:15 AM UTC

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Yeah... five days (or a little more) to go through the swamp, the desert, also kill the computers, and have mana regenerate... I see some managed to grab artifacts and fight strong monsters... it would be really interesting to sit nearby during the game and watch it with my own eyes)))

Be strong. Believe

In reply to Arandor

Kyle

11/1/2007 8:33 AM UTC

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Arandor;122874

it would be very interesting to sit nearby during the game and see it with my own eyes)))

Oh, believe me, it's a very boring activity..
especially when you need to dig out the required territory, or conduct a battle similar to this one:

IronAxe

Two cerberi finished off about 40-50 zombies, easily, just had to run around a bit

Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров

In reply to IronAxe

Undergrounder

11/1/2007 9:37 AM UTC

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And Guinea Sam Brook
lapped me...
:smile15:

IronAxe;122860

I got 7 (6 in the table).

It seems you put in a little effort, so you must really want it. :)
It's too early to congratulate you, so I'll refrain. Many haven't reported their results yet.

IronAxe;122860

I think this is a weak point in your playthrough.

You keep talking and talking... Maybe next time I won't be lazy:smile10: :D
Send me your daily logs sometime.

IronAxe;122860

Let's start sharing save files after the preliminary results are announced. Maybe ours won't be needed :)

Mine definitely won't be needed. But since I promised, here's the second day's save.
There are 105 saves. Cyclops - ...s012_b...
Just a heads up: this is a 7Zip archive, and you need to open it with 7-Zip, changing the extension to *.7z
You can't upload 7-Zip archives in their original form here. And it's a really great archiving program!

Kyle;122884

Oh, believe me, it's a very boring task...
especially when you need to find the right area, or have a battle like this one:

I completely agree.
It's fun to come up with ideas, but executing them is worse, and watching is not interesting at all.

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I am not useless - I can be used as a bad example!

Lu41k

11/1/2007 11:16 AM UTC

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Dear participants, I am posting the preliminary results of the 9th stage of the Van Kanighem Tournament.

9th stage of the Van Kanighem Tournament
Number	Participant	Days	Points	Rating
1	IronAxe :smile49:	7	1040	-
2	Undergrounder	8	1129	-
3	Fireball	9	993	-
4	midzhajj	10	975	-
5	LeSHiJ-Max	11	1036	-
6	BigAke	11	971	-
7	vbn	13	970	-
8	Romanuel	17	826	-
9	Brackman	41	777	-
10	Lu41k	57	790	-
11	Arandor	63	790	-
12	SandroXXL	80	806	-
13	ZYbr	92	788	-

Sincerely, Luchik, Magnus!

"Как это странно всегда..
Вроде бы взрослые люди,
А в голове ерунда..
Мечтаем как дети о чуде.."

Пандора

11/1/2007 11:19 AM UTC

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I apologize in advance for the off-topic comment directed at Luchik (feel free to delete it if needed), but Romanuel's message about a bug caught my attention... :confused: I just wanted to inquire and get some clarification at the same time. I had a similar situation in an offline game where the computer had two heroes on the map. One died fighting some neutral creatures, leaving behind a tombstone. I killed the second hero, captured all of his two cities, but the game didn't end :confused: Is this a bug?

Fireball

11/1/2007 11:30 AM UTC

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Yes, the map is simple and doesn't encourage large-scale battles. 9 days is an achievable result with the most straightforward approach. On day 2, 5 heroes defeat the cyclops, run to the knight, and then split up – 1 against the Necropolis, 4 against the Barbarian. I didn't even capture the vampire's lair. It was obvious that the map could be completed in 7-8 days, but I lacked the time and skill to do so. Congratulations to the winners! P.S. I still would like to watch the replays. Iron, how are you?

In reply to Пандора

Alex_R

11/1/2007 11:33 AM UTC

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Pandora;122937

Is this a bug?

I apologize for intruding, but I think it's a bug... I had a similar case, and saving and reloading helped me...
I just saved the game and loaded it from the save, took some mine, and it said I won... So, I think you just need to save, reload, and do something:smile01:
P.S. It was a long time ago, but it's TRUE!

In reply to Пандора

Undergrounder

11/1/2007 11:44 AM UTC

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Well, Iron, congratulations. You’re quite fast. :)

And overall, the results are interesting; they’re clustered together.

Pandora;122937

I had a case in the offline game where the computer had two heroes on the map. One died against some neutral creatures, leaving behind a graveyard. I killed the second one, captured all of its two cities, but the game didn’t end :confused: Is this a bug?

Who knows...
1. In general, a bug or error is something that contradicts the design documentation. :) The documentation is not available to us.
2. In the case of a game played against someone, the distinction between bugs and features is a matter to be resolved by a judge or mutual agreement.
3. And simply, with regard to the described case, there are several possibilities. For example, the task may have been set not to "kill everyone," but something like "dig up," reach a certain point, etc.
Also, it is worth distinguishing between undeniable bugs – there are errors in the game itself, and there are errors in the map editor.
So, a definitive answer would be incorrect.

I am not useless - I can be used as a bad example!