Posts from The magic system in Heroes V [Discussion]

Here's a question that arose: there are several spells that have a duration... Before, they lasted for a certain number of rounds, but now, with the removal of rounds in combat and the introduction of the action time bar (ATB), does anyone know how the duration of a spell will be measured? :confused: :eek: After all, the speed of unit movement on the ATB constantly changes due to morale and pressing the "defense" button, i.e., there is nothing constant left in combat that could be taken as a unit of time... So, here's the question.

A question arose: there are several spells that have a duration... Before, they lasted for a certain number of rounds, but now, with the removal of round-based combat and the introduction of the Action Points (AP) scale, does anyone know how the duration of a spell will be measured? :confused: :eek:

This is the main problem with the AP scale. It lacks a constant value. That's why I said, and will continue to say, that it has no place in a Turn-Based Strategy game.
I haven't played the beta yet. But maybe the admin will explain how spell duration is measured. :)
All information about spells has been updated.
My advice to everyone: when you start playing Heroes V, forget everything you knew about hero magic before. There's nothing similar here.
The magic system in Heroes V is primitive to the extreme. Not only are there 40 spells, but you can learn a minimum of 20 (4-4-4-4-4). There are 4 spells at each level.
The use of magic is predictable to the extreme. For example, on the first turn, use Meteor Shower or another area-of-effect spell. Then, place mines, and let Haven try to win:D They won't make it:D On such a field, you can't pass by the mines.
Of course, 8*10 is playable, but the developers need to think. There isn't a single dispel spell that can remove enemy blessings:eek:
There are very few spells, and they are very easily accessible.
The mana cost is just ridiculous. Holy Word (5) costs 11, while Ring of Cold (3) costs 12.:mad:

This is the main problem with the ATB bar. It has no constant value. That is exactly why I said, and will continue to say, that it has no place in a Turn Based Strategy.

And IMHO, the developers now have no right to apply the TBS term to Heroes 5, because there are no turns left - consequently, this is already a different kind of turn-based strategy... at least they left moves on the glob. map, otherwise imagine if there was ATB there too ;).... And then morale, luck and other complexities... now that would be a real party :D

Holy Word(5) costs 11, while Ring of Frost(3) costs 12.:mad:

Well, this is completely incomprehensible... It feels as if each school was made by different people and the numbers were just pulled out of thin air ;)... I wouldn't be surprised if there is a similarly inadequate spread in damage for various spells...

The information on spells has just been updated again. I was simply using an outdated link. Basically, the situation hasn't changed.
But Armageddon for 12 mana:D Dungeon is now my favorite faction:D Long live the Warlocks.
And I'm also interested in hearing the arguments of those who are in favor of a smaller map. How will they play against mines and fire walls? On such a map, it's enough to simply cast mines every turn, and a walking army will definitely lose.

Indeed, landmines are awesome on such a map!

I don't remember mines slowing down creatures when they explode, besides dealing damage. And how much damage do they deal?

Check out how the Blind spell now works...

Blind disables several units in a stack (the stack's attack is reduced by the number of blinded units); it depends on the hero's power.

WOW...
Great if the spell...
Now it doesn't blind the entire stack, but, for example, out of 200 archers, it blinds 50. That's a great find. I'm very happy.:mad: :mad: :mad:
I wonder why the other spells still affect the entire stack...
They should make them all the same...
Haste only speeds up part of the stack...
and so on. IMHO - it's idiotic.

Now it doesn't blind the entire stack, but let's say out of 200 archers, it blinds 50.

It really turns out to be some kind of nonsense... and is Alexseevich really sure about this, maybe he got it wrong? This doesn't align with the magic system in Heroes and the stack system at all... This is a prime example of unnecessary realism, which is completely pointless...

Alexseevich is definitely sure about this; maybe he got it wrong?

Here's our conversation...

Blindness disables several units in a stack (the stack's attack is reduced by the number of blinded units); it depends on the hero's power.

I don't understand...
A blinded stack isn't blinded, but weakened?
It's kind of absurd...:(

:2: Dak, I don't really like it either, but I think that's how it works. By the way, the weakening mechanism is different here.
If a regular curse reduces the damage of each unit in the stack, now the number of creatures dealing damage is reduced.
I think this was done to avoid imbalance, because Order magic was overpowered precisely because its spells affected entire stacks (forgetfulness, hypnosis, blindness).
But these are just my observations, and I'm not entirely sure they're absolutely correct:)

So, what's the difference between Blind and Weakness? The stack still moves, but it deals less damage. And this is the effect of the Weakness spell:confused:

If a regular curse reduces the damage of each unit in the stack, now it reduces the number of creatures dealing damage.

How did he calculate that? Does it say that 10 out of 100 hit? And how does this curse disable part of the units?:eek: Do they go for a beer or something? :)
I wonder if Dispel also removes negative effects in the same way. Does it affect only part of the units, while others remain unaffected? And how does the stack move then:eek:

If I were Nival, I wouldn't reinvent the wheel, but simply copy the scheme from Heroes of Might and Magic III (with new features, of course), and the result would be even better... (This is my opinion).

As can be seen, even the fact that the developers abandoned the old world and are creating a new one, introducing ATB, etc....didn't help them.
They are creating a NEW game!!!!!

"FANS" don't care — they are shouting across every corner of the planet: "Nival is stupid, stop making junk! What do we need Heroes 5 for? Stop it!!! Come to your senses!!!! Make an add-on for Heroes 3!!! After all, 3 is the ideal, just add a 'buy all' button and that's it!! Don't make a mediocre game!!"

Unfortunately, in my opinion, all "constructive" criticism comes down to this slogan.

My opinion. I have 3. I have 4.
I want a different game, with different tactics, a different magic system, a different city-building scheme, different unit properties, a different battlefield, a different turn order calculation, different artifacts, etc....
3 is a good game, but I already have it....

Okay, let's go off-topic. Suppose we have a person who really loves the Heroes of Might and Magic series. But he has no internet access, and no money to buy gaming magazines either. So, he knows nothing about the upcoming 5th installment. But he has consistently played parts 1, 2, 3, and 4, and still plays them now (in short, he's a fan of the series). And then the long-awaited release arrives. A Russian company is developing the game, and he happily saves up money, buys a licensed copy, and rushes home to install it. He installs and launches it. Then comes his reaction: :eek: :eek: :eek: He doesn't see the interface. It's different. It's good, functional, but not from this series. It's uncomfortable for him. He tries to get used to it, but he can't figure out why he needs to use the Shift key again to separate stacks. And how many people haven't played parts 1 and 2? They've never even heard of this button. He tries to understand why the control buttons obscure the camera's field of view, because the rectangular window in Heroes was an excellent solution for a 3D interface. Now he has to deal with blind spots. He doesn't see the current date. The interface in part 4 displayed all the necessary information on the screen. He could easily find out any number without pressing any buttons. Well, okay. He manages to get used to it and starts playing. Then again: :eek: :eek: :eek: Because in Heroes, all units have always had their own unique characteristics. But now, from level 1 to 4, they are practically copies of each other. He starts a battle and is surprised by the new system. This isn't a turn-based strategy game. He was used to planning his actions 3-4 rounds ahead, but now he has to revise them every turn. He doesn't see the "wait" button. He finds this field uncomfortable. We could continue the adventures of this poor guy... But most likely, he'll put the game on the shelf and go back to playing the old games. More than 50% of those who buy the game don't know what it's about. They only know that it's a continuation of the series. And they want a continuation. And it's they who will decide whether there will be Heroes 6 or not. Yes, for you and me, the new game is no longer a secret, but for them... We need to cater to them, not to us. They should get what they want, namely a continuation of Heroes of Might and Magic. And believe me, they want the old world, the old heroes, the old interface, and the same laws of magic. Yes, you can reform the magic system, the battle system, etc., as was done in part 4. But the vast majority of Heroes fans are very conservative people, and that's why they didn't accept the changes in part 4. The slogan "Part 4 is crap, we'll build our own new world" will work. The game will pay for itself. But it's very likely that it will be the last in the series. Moreover, there may be even more popular Heroes 6, 7, 8, but the series will die. It will just be a brand for generating money. The opinions of participants in various internet forums do not in any way reflect the real state of affairs. And the developer must understand this. Either he doesn't care about this opinion (which is not the case; they did listen to the petition), or he listens to it and analyzes it very carefully (which is also not the case; Nival reacts very painfully to any criticism). I am deeply convinced that Heroes 5 will have excellent gameplay and will provide many minutes of unforgettable battles. But I don't want to end up putting it on the shelf with the comment, "An interesting game, but the old Heroes are better."

You are right in many ways, if not all.
My opinion is my problem.
But if Heroes 5 comes out with the old interface, map, magic system, and combat, and I don't see something new, something radically new, then in the worst case I'll put this game on the shelf with the comment "Interesting game, but I've already played these heroes...", and in the best case, I'll give it to someone with a worldview similar to yours. I don't need the same thing just in different packaging.

P.S. Katrine, sorry for using part of your message. I just wanted to show that neither you nor I want the game to turn out mediocre, let alone bad.
And a request: I only recently started using the internet; could someone send a glossary to my email explaining what "offtop", "imho", etc., mean? I think I've already figured out what "flood" is. :)

The interface in Heroes of Might and Magic IV displayed all the necessary information on the screen. You could easily find any number without pressing any buttons.

Now, this is the main trend in the world of user-friendly games. In Civilization 4, you can manage everything without entering cities or consulting advisors!
And this is with full 3D graphics and all the other visual enhancements!!!