Walkthroughs for custom maps. — Maps

wenwell

6 years ago

Auto-translated

scars of reality

Yes, this is the only save file that remained from that attempt to start a walkthrough. I continued from it when I returned to this map.
https://transfiles.ru/4m6se

Thanks! Yes, the issue is most likely due to the HD mod. SoD_SP simply doesn't know how to fix bugs for AI vs AI battles that are different from regular bugs for the case of a player vs AI. I recently tested one of these bugs - the computer breaks through an army that it normally wouldn't be able to break through, even if we attack in quick combat mode or by entering "gosolo" in the console. This happens only when the computer attacks and in no other way.

АртеммЯ

6 years ago

Auto-translated

Does anyone know of a video walkthrough of the Xiedu scenario completed in 70 days (or however many days it takes)? It seems like some kind of fantasy. I'm most interested in the battle against the orange player with 300 archers, 300 titans, 800 djinn, 900 wizards, and some azure units as a bonus. Essentially, the AI has no useless units. It's one thing when you have 3000 snipers; I even managed to beat it on month 10, and even 3000 would have been enough, but in such a short time, I don't even know what strategy could be used. Richard Chen completed this map relatively quickly, but I couldn't find that particular battle in his playthrough. This is a key battle, as it unlocks the keymaster's tents.

Marlo_Stanfield

6 years ago

Auto-translated

There is no video walkthrough. Only graphical materials >>>. Registration is required to view.

In reply to Marlo_Stanfield

Dirty_Player

6 years ago

Auto-translated

I wonder, if we were to use modern maps as tournament maps for professional Heroes players, would the results be as impressive as they were back in the day with First Blood? Unfortunately, we'll never know, because even on Heroes of Might and Magic Online, no one plays the game anymore.

Marlo_Stanfield

6 years ago

Auto-translated

I don't think the idea would work because squeezing out the maximum result on a map like Xiedu would take more than a month of real-time work. No one would agree to that.

АртеммЯ

6 years ago

Auto-translated

It's funny that speedruns of Heroes on such complex maps take months of real time, while a leisurely playthrough, a couple of hours after work, takes much less.
And, in my opinion, maps like Xiedu wouldn't be popular in this genre because there's a lot of randomness.
It's a different matter to create a map where you immobilize all the computer's heroes, lock them in castles (you can, in extreme cases, allow some characters to move, but along a clear route, and plan everything down to the smallest detail. Also, place all units manually). And then there would be room for creativity, in terms of how to scatter artifacts across the map, what bonuses to set. For example, give a tower with a grail at the start and lock the hero in the center of the map with 99 cold resistance and one leadership skill. So that the hero can see the map, knows the exact size of the army. Let the player think for himself what, where, why, and how. You can plan logistics, realistically assess your strength in battle. And then it would be interesting to see who would complete such a map in the shortest time. Some might need an extra week to capture the Azure faction, while others could complete it without them. If you spend as much time on it as on Paragon or Xiedu (+ the author is Rins or Season), you could create a pretty good map.

In reply to АртеммЯ

kolotok

6 years ago

Auto-translated

ArtemmYa

It's funny that speedruns of Heroes on such complex maps take months of real time, while a leisurely playthrough, a couple of hours after work, takes much less.
And, in my opinion, maps like Xiedu wouldn't be popular in this genre because there's a lot of randomness.
It would be much more interesting to create a map where all the computer heroes are immobilized, locked in castles (in extreme cases, some characters could be allowed to move, but along a clear route, and everything should be carefully planned). Also, all units should be placed manually. And then there would be room for creativity in how to distribute artifacts across the map and what bonuses to give. For example, give a tower with a grail at the start and lock the hero in the center of the map with 99 cold resistance and one leadership skill. So that the hero can see the map, know the exact size of the army. Let the player think for himself what, where, why, and how. You can plan logistics, realistically assess your strength in battle. And then it would be interesting to see who could complete such a map in the shortest time. Some might need an extra week to capture the Azure faction, while others could complete it without them. If you spend as much time on it as on Paragon or Xiedu (+ if the author is someone like Rinse or Season), you could create a pretty good map.

In my opinion, it's all a matter of taste. Static maps, where all the computers are locked up, are not always interesting. Usually, over time, forces accumulate, and sooner or later, the enemy is defeated in the same way. A map with freedom (complete or relative) of movement for the computers looks much more complex, dynamic, and interesting. Again, I'm not claiming that one is "right" and the other is "wrong." I'm just saying what I like more and why. So, dynamic maps, in my opinion, are much harder to create, and even harder to make interesting. Most of the maps that I wrote reviews about here were dynamic, and I can't even imagine how the author calculated the forces and how much time it took him.

АртеммЯ

6 years ago

Auto-translated

kolotok, but here we are talking about something else. Static maps are certainly not as interesting. But if you create a map for professional players for a tournament, then this would be a way to level the playing field and then see what each player is capable of.

In reply to АртеммЯ

kolotok

6 years ago

Auto-translated

ArtemmYa

kolotok, but here we're talking about something else. Of course, static maps aren't as interesting. But if you create a map for professional players for a tournament, then this could be a way to level the playing field and then see who is capable of what.

possibly. Again, I might be wrong, but the competitive element has moved online, including online tournaments. To create some kind of hardcore map that "experienced players" from offline would compete on, well, I don't know, I'm not sure if there's an author who would create such a complex map for this idea. And would there even be anyone interested? I don't follow offline map-passing tournaments, but about six months to a year ago, I was looking into this topic for a competitive purpose. As it seemed to me then, interest has decreased significantly (including the fact that playing online against people, rather than against a computer, has become much easier and more interesting). Something like that...

In reply to Marlo_Stanfield

Dirty_Player

6 years ago

Auto-translated

Marlo_Stanfield

I think the idea wouldn't work because squeezing out the maximum result on a map like Xiedu is not a task for just one real month. No one would sign up for that.

Perhaps a prize pool could somehow stimulate interest. If I'm not mistaken, there was one in FirstBlood. But that's already in the realm of fantasy.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Antoshka

6 years ago

Auto-translated

Dirty_Player

Perhaps a prize pool could somehow stimulate interest. If I'm not mistaken, there was one in FirstBlood. But that's already in the realm of fantasy.

The issue isn't the prize pool, although it does create hype and motivation. The issue is the community. When there is one, it can be motivated, and you can find players within it who would be willing to play. When there isn't one... it's difficult to get anyone interested in playing something that no one is interested in. The difficulty of the map isn't crucial. As an example, consider running a marathon. Once, it was something only a few people did. Now, the healthy lifestyle community is so developed that thousands and tens of thousands of participants run marathons. And that's a very challenging distance. The main thing is to have a community where this is interesting.

In reply to АртеммЯ

scars of reality

6 years ago

Auto-translated

ArtemmYa

I am most interested in the battle against the orange player with 300 archers, 300 titans, 800 djinn, 900 Wizards, and a few Azure Dragons as a bonus.

Sorry for interfering, but in my opinion, such battles are most likely won due to the abilities of the creatures, morale/luck, and a million attempts.

For example, I only yesterday managed to defeat the green "Roman Pope" by simply abusing the abilities of the Scorpius. I play slowly, and I have a hell of a lot of troops, but this opponent is very tough. His stats are twice as high; he has 2 large stacks of archers that cannot be blocked due to the sniper bow; he has an elixir of life, an amulet that grants immunity to mind magic, and, most annoyingly, he constantly casts "Sacrifice" (as soon as you kill one stack, he immediately revives it with Sacrifice). Jhelu from First Blood 2.5 is a snot-nosed kid compared to this guy.

I'm not saying that something similar didn't happen in the battle you're interested in, but it's quite possible that the abilities of the djinn, the same Scorpius, or the phantom dragons were also used there.

In reply to scars of reality

АртеммЯ

6 years ago

Auto-translated

scars of reality

I'm not claiming that something similar happened in the battle you're interested in, but it's quite possible that Djinns, Scorpikors, or Phantom Dragons' abilities were used there as well.

If you also speedrun within such timeframes, the battle becomes much more difficult than against the aforementioned Pope (subjective opinion). We have more limited resources, spells, and troops. Even if Djinns cast Haste on the Sniper and Curse of Aging on the same Arch, it still needs to happen many, many times for Fear to trigger. Overall, it's something out of the realm of fantasy. I assume that the battle was clearly designed to take place on a specific battlefield and with a different strategy. For example, as an option, we already have all the pieces of the Diplomat by this point. If we didn't spend money on unnecessary things and choose the right troops based on speed, we can outsmart the opponent. But again, that person was playing for speed. And with ransom + visiting the Lake of Luck, it takes a couple of days. However, we have many equally valuable characters, and it's possible that while one is out of the game, it doesn't affect the speed of completion.

scars of reality

6 years ago

Auto-translated

I didn't claim it was easier. I just gave an example that, in order to defeat the Pope without using tricks, I had to use the abilities of the Scorpius. The speedrunners mentioned above can confirm that if the task is to defeat a serious opponent with a small army, it is often impossible to do without using creature abilities. But I also didn't claim that he completed this battle exactly that way.

On the other hand, tricking or luring the opponent onto a specific cell takes time. And if a person is speedrunning, especially at such a pace, then every movement point of every hero is extremely valuable. Trickery will also cost a lot of money, even with diplomatic artifacts, and at this stage, he probably didn't have many of them.

If we knew what troops he had at that moment, we could make some assumptions. But as it is, it's all just speculation.