Wind of Change — Online Tournaments

Xocenk

6/24/2020 12:34 PM UTC

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It is implemented in that way, to be more precise:
Yes, this option is also quite suitable. There is also a random element, but it won't be too easy or too difficult.

Initial construction of the Guildhall - 0% chance
1st reconstruction - original chance
2nd reconstruction - original chance * 2
3rd reconstruction - original chance * 3
4th reconstruction - 100% chance

ICQ - 703804372
Discord - Xocenk#2473

In reply to Xocenk

Aiwe

6/24/2020 1:41 PM UTC

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Agreed that something needs to change — there are many options, and I think everything has already been stated above. At the moment, CL + U is not particularly interesting, but in my opinion the issue isn't just about gaining control, although that is the main thing, of course. There's also the problem that some people frequently get Earth, others get University, and still others have all their heroes take Water and Fire.

Right now, CL + U has turned into a simulator of rearranging the GM, gathering resources, and leveling up supports. And since there are no alternatives, it all comes down to the randomness of the GM, which also makes the gameplay tedious. The game only becomes interesting from the 3rd week onward, and only if the GM luck is equal. I think we need to make control setup harder, make it less random, simplify gaining control from other sources, and also make using control more difficult while decoupling it from specific elements.

Added after 6 minutes
Well, the problem here is that the HotA team is busy with the new Castle, and as practice shows, they are only interested in balance on Jebus Cross. Vic is gone, so there's no one left to talk about balance anymore :(

http://heroes3.tv/aiwe

Grando

6/24/2020 1:45 PM UTC

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The Fresh Mod option looks like a step forward for me compared to the current state of things. But it's still murky.
Another year or two will pass, perceptions will shift further, and it will even look strange when someone rolls from the 1st upgrade while someone else does so from the 3rd.

The best (esports, without quotes) ideas I've heard so far:
1. The price for Town Portal should be a fix around 24-32 of all resources.
2. The price for Dimension Door should also be a fix around 30-40 of all resources.
From this it follows:
- these spells cannot be rolled from the initial building or from the first roll (whereas in Fresh Mod, they can be from the first roll)
- there cannot be any 4th upgrade even in theory
3. Ideally, the roll at which opponents receive Town Portal / Dimension Door should not differ at all, but if we still really want to indulge the gambler within us and leave a spread for key spells in the game - it should differ by one roll maximum.

That is, the following options look normal:
1. Initial building. Chance 0%.
2. 1st upgrade. Chance 0%.
3. 2nd upgrade. Chance 100%.
or
2nd upgrade chance 0%, 3rd upgrade 100%.
or
2nd upgrade chance 50% / some other, 3rd upgrade 100%.

I find it difficult to assess the value of Fly, but we also need to think through its implementation if we're going to do something

Aiwe

6/24/2020 1:49 PM UTC

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This is also a bad option, because resource-wise it varies a lot. Some people get two adjacent zones without penalties with a bunch of mines and resources around, while others get a swamp

http://heroes3.tv/aiwe

In reply to Aiwe

Лось

6/24/2020 2:22 PM UTC

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I think the main problem with the current restructuring is not knowing when control will appear. A relatively cosmetic but extremely pleasant change would be to make it possible to see the restructuring tree (at the moment of the first restructuring, for example).

Aiwe

This is also a bad option, because in terms of resources it varies greatly. Someone has two adjacent zones without a penalty with a bunch of mines and resources around, while someone has a swamp

Well, this can be seen quite often during restarts, and in general there is an opportunity to plan the game.

597908740

In reply to Aiwe

Dirty_Player

6/24/2020 3:47 PM UTC

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Aiwe

There's also the issue that some people like it

As for the university, I think the Conflux university needs a fix so that it gives not magic schools but 4 random skills) And each Conflux has a different set. :D

LuckyF

6/24/2020 7:07 PM UTC

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In my opinion, the version implemented in the fresh mode is excellent and, at the same time, should not be too difficult to implement.

discord: LuckyF#3482
icq: 681350680

In reply to Xocenk

Dirty_Player

6/24/2020 10:29 PM UTC

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Xocenk

Initial GM construction - 0% chance
1st rebuild - original chance
2nd rebuild - original chance * 2
3rd rebuild - original chance * 3
4th rebuild - 100% chance

That's what I thought. There is no point in the initial construction chance being zero. It will simply slow down the game by two days (Town Portal day and Dimension Door day), or perhaps even more, because 18 resources will be guaranteed to be thrown away for nothing. Building for the sake of building is a bad idea.

In reply to Dirty_Player

LuckyF

6/25/2020 12:47 AM UTC

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Dirty_Player

I've been thinking. There is no point in the initial build chance being zero. It will simply slow down the game by two days (the Town Portal day and the Dimension Door day), and maybe even more because 18 resources will be guaranteed to go to waste. Building for the sake of building is a bad idea.

Well, not exactly building for the sake of building; after all, besides TP and DD, there are various resurrects, chain lightnings, summons, impls. I'm not claiming that it must be done exactly this way, it's just an approximate option. But the logic is to avoid rolling control completely for free and super fast; essentially, you could put up the 4th tower without even bothering much with recovering resources. And then bam—a competitive TP on the 1st attempt... 10 times in a row, hello Vanya:smile04:

discord: LuckyF#3482
icq: 681350680

In reply to LuckyF

Grando

6/25/2020 5:56 AM UTC

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LuckyF

In my opinion, the option implemented in the fresh mode is excellent and, at the same time, shouldn't be too difficult to implement.

At least write why you think it's excellent, if the range for rolling TP/DD can still be 6 days (3 for each)?
This isn't a vote; it's an exchange of ideas to make it work properly.
Do you like the prospect of being eliminated in the final of a tournament due to such a wide range?

In reply to Grando

LuckyF

6/25/2020 6:10 AM UTC

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Grando

At least write why exactly it is a great option, if the roll spread for TP/DD can still be 6 days (3 for each)?
This isn't a vote, but an exchange of ideas to make things done properly.
Do you like the prospect of flying out in the tournament final because of such a spread?

We just need to look at things realistically; it will be impossible to balance heroes completely. But there is already a great necessity to at least slightly reduce the spread between extreme values for something as vital to the game result as the Mage Guild rebuild. A 6-day difference is, of course, the end in most cases, but it's no longer a 2-week difference as possible in the current desire, and some matches can be saved even with such a rebuild. And besides, one shouldn't forget that there is plenty of other randomness in matches apart from the Mage Guild; sometimes a small difference in the speed of gaining control during a rebuild might actually balance the situation—but the key word here is small, not like what periodically happens now.
And again, specific numbers and the spread between attempts for TP and DD can be discussed. By "great option," I meant the very concept that control does not arrive on the 1st attempt and, at the same time, definitely not on the last/final attempts.

discord: LuckyF#3482
icq: 681350680

Grando

6/25/2020 7:03 AM UTC

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So why not just balance it right away to a difference of 1-2 days? This has already been suggested and argued above. After that, you write that the option allowing a difference of 6 days is excellent. What exactly do you like more about it than the option allowing a maximum difference of 1 day per spell?

Noom

6/25/2020 7:28 AM UTC

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Perhaps simply reduce the control skill (increase movement point costs for casting spells, for example) and allow all heroes of a certain level (4-5) in the Academy to learn it? As the CIS region has shown, we are seeing heroes with reconfigured GM stats.

Стримы HMM5 на полных картах мод TE:
ru.twitch.tv/noom11

Alex_nv - draw - Vovan112013 летос 236

alex_nv wrote: Наконец то нормальная игра с открытием половины карты.

In reply to Grando

hex6

6/25/2020 7:45 AM UTC

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In some games, you have a level 4 Town Hall on day 121, while in others, you start building it on day 122 due to resource, money, or army constraints. It's also important to remember the availability of a hero for the Town Hall. If the difference is minimal, it leads to richer players becoming even more overpowered. The difference, in my opinion, should still exist, even if not as significant as it is now.

Added 14 minutes later
No less important in this matter is how quickly this will be implemented. Considering that something similar is already implemented in the fresh mod, using the idea from the fresh mod, there are grounds to assume that the implementation will not take much time, but at the same time, it will significantly improve the situation.

wir müssen wissen wir werden wissen

In reply to hex6

Dirty_Player

6/25/2020 7:54 AM UTC

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Grando

So why not balance it right away so that the difference is only 1-2 days?

This has already been suggested and argued above.
After that, you write that the option allowing a difference of 6 days is excellent. What exactly do you like more about it than the option that allows a maximum difference of 1 day for each spell?

Calculate the probability that the difference will be 6 days.
Your option, where there are two 0% chances, is much worse. I really don't like the option where a player has to waste resources with a 0% chance.
Yes, it solves one "problem" by creating something like a "mirror GM," but then other problems related to "mirroring" will arise.

Noom

Maybe just reduce control (increase movement costs for casting spells, for example)

Finding a way to reduce control is very difficult. Simply increasing the number of movements or mana cost is not a solution; it will immediately lead to players focusing on logistics, stables, intelligence, knowledge hats, etc.

Noom