Posts from Jebus King version selection on SNGonline

Good afternoon/evening/morning. I want to discuss the use of the outdated version of the Jebus King 2.5 template in the SNGonline tournament.

First, I'll say that on the MSstudio website and in the template description, the template's author is listed incorrectly. It was and remains me - MKC. I did not sell the template; MS only voluntarily sent me donations, which I never asked for (but I'm still grateful).
For version 2.5, Freeman only made a couple of changes, and without consulting the regular top players on JK - Homunguls, Fin, Diabler, and David. The differences between versions are negligible; accordingly, the author should be listed as: made by MKC, edited by Freeman. For comparison, my version can be viewed on the site: https://hotaseries.pro/template

Next, I looked at version 2.5; it has certain shortcomings... not critical, but it's still obvious that it was made by someone who doesn't know the editor's nuances. Also, the description on the MS site is unreadable, everything is large and scattered across images.

Now, regarding the more important points I noticed during games.
First, the value of fire magic boxes is too high - 30k value, no player asked for that. For comparison, in 2.64a - a box for all magic is 60k value; it's easily readable by guard in 8 out of 10 cases (without engaging in combat).

Second, control is hard to find. Having Town Portal is the foundation of successful play on the center. What do we have in 2.5: the entire map can have a maximum of 3-4 КЗ and one Town Portal scroll. Dragon Utopias are hidden on respawns, 2 on each. Earth magic boxes are not readable by value - random. Now think about the chances of finding the coveted Town Portal on such a template? Slim. In my version: 9 control scrolls, 9 Dragon Utopias in the center, 6 readable boxes for all magic, and 4th-level shrines instead of 4th-level scrolls (including Town Portal). Here, you'd have to try hard NOT to find control in the center.

Third, the issue with frequently repeating towns hasn't been fixed, and the center can also be the same faction as the players' respawns. In 2.64a, boxes and external dwellings always have a static value, and towns are more varied.

And other strange points. Giselle is not banned. Level 5 prisons are still allowed in the center. Random Dungeon towns haven't been removed from the adjacent zones, and neutral external dwellings are placed there for no reason. Objects (Griffin Conservatories\Dragon Fly Hives) along the road in the center generate unevenly; I noticed strong imbalances in some generations.

Why use a more random, poorly thought-out version for such a large tournament? It's unclear. So I advise the SNГ organizers to reconsider this point or add a version choice. I am more than confident that version 2.64a is much more pleasant and convenient to play. Let the players decide for themselves.

Few people in the Heroes Community know me; Freeman has more authority among renowned players... can't argue with that. It's unlikely anyone will support me on this forum, but still, staying silent is also wrong. I tried to write everything based on facts, without any personal attacks.

Yes, fixing the version isn't that difficult, but as for the general post, it sounds very strange, not consulting with the top players. You also released some sad changes without consulting the top players. Pandora's Box for all magic doesn't always get read, and you can easily get wiped by a guard of 49 devils (for example). In principle, I consider such a change stupid. Having played several games on both templates, I concluded that on 2.64 the respawn is laid out better, although the change with 2 utopias instead of one still yields more results due to their frequent awkward placements. However, the center on 2.5 generates incomparably better... Don't throw around your IMHO about balance when no one has confirmed it.

I didn't want to engage in a debate, but I decided to respond once and for all to put an end to further discussion.
1. The name Jebus King was created by Ilya, aka Profiler Anishchenko, and Sergey has nothing to do with this name.
2. The template that Sergey developed was called Jebus Balance, later Jebus Cross (A), so there is absolutely no basis for claiming any infringement on the JK trademark.
3. You can create hundreds and thousands of templates, but people will only play those templates that:
a) have become established in the community (JC, 6lm10a, mini-nosta, etc.)
b) are actively promoted.
Personally, I consider it my achievement that I promoted the Jebus King template because I funded and organized 10 Jebus King tournaments and the Jebus Imperator tournament, not counting the smaller Jebus Prince tournaments. And thanks to 15 tournaments in a year, in which a considerable amount of money was invested (I don't want to calculate it now), we got a template that many people play now.
4. Regarding the opinions of professionals: initially, I collected all the feedback from the community of strong players and passed it on to Sergey, so yes, he had the skills to implement the ideas, but the ideas were primarily mine. This happened because of the unwillingness to communicate with strong players through MKS.
5. And most importantly, the tournament registration conditions specify version 2.5 of the template, and the only correct place to download this template is the msstudio.tv website, which hosts this tournament. And by registering, the players agreed to the terms of this tournament, so there can be no discussion about which version we will play.

P.S. Sergey, if you want to promote your ideas, create a series of tournaments, allocate prize money, invite players and commentators.
INVEST YOUR TIME AND MONEY, and then you can write here or in other chats about universal injustice, but for now, you are a person who opened a random template editor, took JC, added ideas from players that were given to you from the outside, and did purely technical work for which you received money, and you have no right to ask for more.
With that, this topic can be considered closed.

MKS, you used to create various templates, why did you stop?

funny post, I'd love to join someone else's tournament and force my own version of the game on the players...

When I saw that they changed the value of chests to magic, I was shocked. In my opinion, this is not the right path to take. IMHO.

I was in the early stages of communication with MKS and discussing ideas for King's Bounty. You shouldn't have attacked him like that. He did a good job, a very useful one. After all, thanks to his work, our game has, let's say, a new niche. And that doesn't happen often. However, regarding the difference between the versions... "Something... something..." (c) Vocalist of the Bredor band.

Pandora doesn't always work on all magic, and you can easily lose to a guard of 49 devils (for example).

I saw that game, Hell. You attacked a guard that could only be 5-9 rusty ones; it's 100% all magic. Even I, who am not a pro, can distinguish them in most cases. Top players might be fine with boxes that don't work on magic, but don't forget that there are also beginners who don't want to take empty boxes. And yes, JK is primarily a template for new players; there's nothing wrong with that.
As for the fact that I didn't consult with top players on some points, I tried different experimental ideas and already looked at the players' reactions to see if the change was good or not. I think progress can't happen without that.

funny post, now is the time to interfere in someone else's tournament and impose some version on the players...

As you can see, I was just writing criticism about the template. You've already been forced to accept both the template and the version. It wouldn't hurt to talk about an alternative.

MKS, you used to make different templates, why did you stop?

Well, how different. Mostly remakes of Jebus - Shaton, Outcast. Few people know about them. I also recently updated Survival, a template where you play solo or in 2-player mode against cheating AI. There's also a regular template, a mix of mini-nosty and 6LM, called World.
Here they all are: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Tu2nbR9WhijVk4UmkkSmbEWexL_1kiPB

When I saw that the value of boxes was changed to magic, I was shocked. In my opinion, this is not the way to go. IMHO.

I received suggestions to remove the boxes for magic and wisdom. Would that be better?

...

Thank you for your support!

I received suggestions to remove the boxes for magic and wisdom. Would that be better?

Does every suggestion need to be implemented? Is leaving things as they are not an option?

As mentioned earlier, and even the name JK suggests, this template is definitely not for new players. Regarding the Rusty faction, the box contains 5 Rusty units at tier 7+ with maximum value. I don't know what you've learned to distinguish, and even with a range of 5-9, it can be confusing, let alone 20-49. You keep trying to push some kind of balance that only you see, even when a lot of people are advising you otherwise. I don't want to comment further on this topic.

There's a good saying about following your own rules and not interfering in someone else's affairs. I especially liked the phrase about imposing things; it would have been good to add something about intimidation as well.

As has already been said above and even follows from the name, JK is a template not for new players at all. As for a party with Rust Dragons, the box on Gr T7+Griffin Conservatory at maximum value is exactly 5 Rust Dragons, I have no idea what you managed to distinguish there, and even with a spread of 5-9 you can get lost, I'm not even talking about 20-49. You keep trying to push some balance that only you can see, even when a bunch of people advise you otherwise. I have no desire to comment further on this topic.

But essentially, it's still more for beginners. Since many mechanics are simplified. Center Ramp, gold didn't fit in whether with a Conservatory or without.
And even purely statistically, like in poker, you primarily think about probabilities. Two aces can lose to any combination of cards, but what are the chances? And here too, you know there are boxes worth 60k value, so steer clear of them if you can't beat a high roll.

I'm not pushing anything on anyone; new players like this change. If they stop liking it, I'll change it.

Added after 6 minutes

P.S. Sergey, if you want to promote your ideas, create a series of tournaments, allocate prizes, invite players and commentators.
INVEST YOUR TIME AND MONEY, and only then write your essays here or in other chats about universal injustice, but for now you are a person who opened the random template editor, took JC, added ideas from players given to you from the outside, and performed purely technical work for which you received money and have no right to ask for more.
The topic can be considered closed.

Well, I see you also opened the editor but couldn't make anything coherent. You need to decide whether you want a cybersport template or a random fiesta with magic boxes in every corner. Taking someone else's work and putting your name on it is something anyone can do. Especially when you have a certain authority.
I've invested a considerable amount of time in developing the template, and I clearly know what I'm talking about. At least 80% of the ideas in this template were originally conceived by me. Like increasing the value of relics, for example. It's another matter that they aren't approved right away. So my hands are often tied by what players consider acceptable.
As for money, I've already written, I never asked for anything.. everything I did I would have done for free anyway. Thanks for the donation, of course, but I'm gradually returning it to the community anyway.

1. I will change the name if you change the template. I have a full right to this name because both the template and the tournament gained momentum together. The popularity of the JC tourney is a shared achievement. Both the organizers with money, and the commentators (Popavasha, Amilu and others), and the template builder/coordinator. And this must be acknowledged. The "brand" as you call it, is as much yours as my template is mine. You make the tournament version, I make the general version for the lobby, that's all.

2. I have a version archive that can track what changes were made initially. So, Jebus balance and (A) and Jebus King are the same template. At that time, I mostly consulted with Hell on what and how to tweak. So the only one who can claim co-authorship is him.

3. Serega, you are the biggest fan of my template, what are we even talking about. You didn't just invest money, you liked it from the start and that's why you want to promote it. We could have continued cooperating if there was basic respect for the author and trust. From your message, I see this is unlikely, and on my part there's not much desire either.

4. This is pure fabrication, by the way. I personally communicated with players (mostly Hell at the beginning). And those who didn't want to, well, they didn't really want to play the template either. Now I mostly collect feedback from players who truly love the template and play it constantly. There's a Discord channel: https://discord.gg/new2ATQ
Plus, I have logs of conversations with the fathers of JC who said that no one contacted them about the 2.5 changes. So you probably just had a friendly chat with Stinger, Hell and Bishop and that's enough for you.

5. I don't dispute anything said here. Your tournament, your rules. For example, I really liked this one: "Each player must give a video interview of at least 10 minutes during the tournament. The interview is conducted via Skype or Discord."

Or this one:
"The host has the right to make any changes to the regulations and rules during the tournament if necessary."
So essentially, changing the choice of template version can be done at any moment. But the vote is clearly not in my favor, as you can see. Everyone wants an orthodox cross.

So, it turns out you just had a friendly chat with Stinger, Hall, and Bishop, and that's enough.

Why talk about something you don't know for sure?

Right now, complaining about my template is very funny. Even if it's true, what does it change?

The tournament will be held on whatever version they want, any of them. Why should the organizers listen to someone about how to do it, even if they're not a participant in the tournament?

But here, the vote is clearly not in my favor, as you can see. Everyone wants a standard cross.

There are only three people among all the participants. And by the way, I'll repeat again, you don't have the right to hold such a vote. In comparison, what you're doing is like me coming to your house and telling you what food you should eat.

P.S. Next time, if you come up with something, get a patent.

ps. Next time you come up with something, file a patent.

Regardless of the topic, but still. Copyright arises at the moment of creation of the product. No patent is required for this.

..it's just that proving it can be exhausting.
But the essence of the matter is that a patent is not the only tool for proving something.
And in this case, the source code has a chance to become the decisive proof.