HeroesWorld
  • Log in
  • Create account
  • Mode
    Interface scale

Posts from Modding, copyright, and related issues.

Modding
5.0 (1 rating)
In reply to zahar0z
User Avatar
Offline Gerter
Registered:
Posts: 870
#90
Auto-translated
I still don't quite understand what 5.5 is all about. Even though I spent some time trying to figure it out. As far as I understand, there aren't any major changes to the visual aspect of the game. It's primarily a rebalancing and the addition of new features. (How they managed to do all this is a mystery to me, because the changes are so significant that it feels like Footman is telling the truth about the source code being available to one of them).
Yes, they use a mod for improved AI, which was created by someone who has access to the source code (but in reality, this is more of a negative aspect of 5.5, because the source code from version 3.0 and the functions from 3.1 are not available). As for everything else, it's just modifications to the executable file; they have several people in their community who are good at this.
Нет войне.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Gerter
User Avatar
Offline psatkha
Registered:
Posts: 2,864
#91
Auto-translated
Gerter
yes, it uses a mod with improved AI, which was created by a person who has the source code (but actually, this is more of a negative aspect of 5.5, because the source code from version 3.0 and the functions from 3.1 are not available). Otherwise, everything else is modifications to the executable file; they have several people in their community who are good at this.

With the source code available, it's much easier to share!
С уважением, Psatkha (Псатха)

---------------------------------------------

Неудачное планирование ведёт к неудаче ...

NCF - мод, добавляющий дополнительных существ в HeroesV 3.1
0
⚖️
0
In reply to psatkha
User Avatar
Offline Gerter
Registered:
Posts: 870
#92
Auto-translated
psatkha
If you have the source code, it's much easier to share!
As I understand it, no one still has the source code except Quantomas. I can't say for sure, but it seems like someone is in contact with him and has parts of the code, but mostly everyone is still using hex editors.
Нет войне.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to psatkha
User Avatar
Offline footman
Registered:
Posts: 407
#93
Auto-translated
psatkha
It's much easier to share when you have the source code!
Hmm... so that's why there's still no equivalent to Wog:p.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to psatkha
User Avatar
Offline zahar0z
Registered:
Posts: 621
#94
Auto-translated
psatkha
When you have the source code, sharing is a piece of cake!
that's a strong exaggeration)

Added 1 minute later
Gerter
but mostly it's still hex editors in action

respect to them; if they add a proper 9th Castle to the game, I'd gladly switch to their "banners"—making a Naga city

Added 2 minutes later
but the point of the message wasn't really about 5.5, but something else, and I would really like to hear your feedback on this.
zahar0z
FrozensoullMany people, myself included, are ready to support and defend this position, it's just not entirely clear how to do it. Simply screaming at people who use others' materials is a counterproductive solution. It's also unlikely we can influence this on a mass scale, but communicating specifically with project authors is a completely different matter.
Gerter

Obviously, "theft" must be fought, but the question is how? Should all authors unite and build something common? Does that mean we're coming back to a "monopoly" again?

I have some thoughts and concrete plans of action regarding this; some others still need to be formulated and discussed together.


In order

First, regarding groups.
If you have a good mod that you want to publish? Besides publishing it here on the forum, or somewhere on your own, it might be worth contacting the admin of this group. You can reach out directly or through me, if you aren't on VK or simply find it inconvenient.

This is just a simple, useful contact I made for all of us by reaching out to the person and trying to explain my point of view. Things could have gone differently and the person could have been not so great, but we got lucky and they turned out to be quite reasonable and responsive. It makes sense to publish in their group; it will help them (new content) and us (additional attention, which is actually greater than the primary one).

The idea is that nothing stops you from making and sharing similar contacts with the Community.
It would be very good if we had more than one such contact. In the future, we could start a thread on the forum listing such places whose admins are worth contacting.



Second, regarding large mods.
Here, we need to change the approach together.
To start with, we need to speak individually with the authors of modpacks about ensuring that authors of borrowed resources are credited and links to them are provided. Fanaticism is, of course, harmful here, but if we can convince a few authors of large packs to cooperate under such a scheme, that would already be a big victory. It's a step in the right direction, but it obviously won't be enough.
There are several problems at once: ingrained unhealthy borrowing rules, half-dead resources, and the lack of awareness of the typical mod user (though I've met many players who understand how mods are structured and can adjust them for themselves). Making a large modpack ourselves is not an option; there wouldn't be enough time for proper resource production. Forbidding others from using our work, even if it were technically possible, would also be harmful to us.

I have a proposal on how we can change the situation for the better.
I'll be glad to hear your thoughts on this.
Basically, we need to make it so that our resources are so easy to use that anyone could "steal" them.
To achieve this, first, an equal (or at least not significantly smaller) number of people need to know about our resources as they do about large projects. Second, the resources must be prepared for use. And third, more people who can take these resources and use them must emerge.
I'm saying all this based on how things work in the Mount and Blade modding community, where there are many well-known people who engage exclusively in producing "free" packs. And where no one is surprised by yet another "everything and anything" mashup pack, and such a pack never becomes popular unless it has some unique feature of its own.

Concrete plans for this point.
Any small mod (for example, replacing a creature with a new model) should be made in two versions: for users (the creature is replaced by a new model) and for modders (the pack file contains only new resources for the creature and they don't replace anyone).
Naturally, for this scheme to work, resources must be created so that there are no conflicts between them (don't replace original game files, but create new ones). Ideally, you should also separately record the paths to the new model so that your resource is easier for a modder to use.
Preventatively, you should write in large letters on the page: "Feel free to use it, I don't mind. But do this: put a link to my resources inside your mod files, and anyone who wants to play your pack should download my original 'modder's version of the mod'; it will already work with your mod if you specified the paths correctly." Well, that's the ideal, of course. To start with, it would already be good if pack authors learned to at least provide links to the original content and author. And there aren't that many such authors, after all; you can reach an agreement with everyone.
Frozensoull
It's also unlikely we can influence this on a mass scale
Only on a mass scale will it work. If we all together create healthier and more mutually beneficial rules of coexistence. Everything unnecessary and harmful will, naturally, die out.
Группа в вк посвящённая моим модам

Страничка моего последнего мода на ModDB

Моя страничка на Artstation,
где можно посмотреть и повертеть внутри браузера мои 3d модели.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to zahar0z
User Avatar
Offline Gerter
Registered:
Posts: 870
#95
Auto-translated
In my opinion, the situation here is not straightforward.

It would be very convenient to distribute visual mods through groups; they are easy to understand, create fewer compatibility issues, and, as you mentioned, can be easily made in two versions (as a separate mod or as additional content for the global game).

Mods based on scripts are more complex. Mods with global scripts are often incompatible, and if they also affect the executable file, it creates inconvenience for end-users. Therefore, such mods are better adapted for specific builds or released as separate projects. For example, I have an interesting mod made for a campaign and based on a global script and several modifications to the executable file, and I'm currently considering the idea of releasing it separately, but I'm not sure how to do it in the most convenient way.

In short, the approaches described are good, but there cannot be a single approach for all mods (except for a complete, universal integration).

P.S.
Regarding the 9th city, work seems to be in progress there.
Also, from a conversation with Dreadnaut, I learned that Quantomas is preparing a new release there with a lot of new features, and there may also be some features from 3.1. Just a month ago, it was said that this would be released in a month.
Нет войне.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to zahar0z
User Avatar
Offline footman
Registered:
Posts: 407
#96
Auto-translated
zahar0z
Forbidding others from using our work, even if it were technically possible, would also be detrimental to us.

Ah... I thought that since this discussion started, you would suggest exactly that.
zahar0z
I have a suggestion on how to improve the situation.
I would be happy to hear your thoughts on this.
In short, we need to make our resources so easy to use that anyone can "steal" them.
To do this, firstly, we need to ensure that as many people know about our resources as know about major projects, or at least not significantly fewer. Secondly, the resources need to be prepared for use. And thirdly, there need to be more people who can take these resources and use them.
I'm saying this based on how things are in the Mount & Blade modding community, where there are many people who are well-known and who are exclusively involved in creating "free" packs. And where no one is surprised by another compilation of everything and anything, and such a compilation will never become popular if it doesn't have its own unique feature.

Regarding the second point, "prepared," this is a very broad concept. If it refers to compatibility, it will be a lot of trouble, so 5.5 and NCF are combined, not made compatible. In the case of regular mods, incompatibility may occur due to the use of the same xdb file. In the case of 5.5 and NCF, it's about reworked exe or index.bin files, which means 100% incompatibility.
Regarding unique features, what can we do? We can't even add a new animation, such as defend, or an ability for creatures (not a specialization for a hero), or add some original effect, even through Lua scripts.
zahar0z
I still don't quite understand what 5.5 is. Even though I spent some time trying to figure it out. As far as I understand, there isn't much of a change to the visual aspect of the game. It's primarily a rebalance and the addition of new features. (How they did all this is a mystery to me, because the changes are so significant that it seems like Footman is telling the truth about someone having the original source code.)
If everything remains as it is and 5.5 doesn't turn into just another compilation of garbage, I will be happy if some of the users use my resources together with this mod.
If 5.5 wants to include my resources in the mod, I would like it to be done on mutually beneficial terms, as described above.

As far as I understand, they expanded the capabilities of Lua in the game by reworking the exe, and I tend to agree with Gerter that they only have fragments of the code.

Added after 1 minute
Personally, I'm not interested in 5.5 because it doesn't have any graphical changes or fixes.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to zahar0z
User Avatar
Offline Gerter
Registered:
Posts: 870
#97
Auto-translated
As far as I understand, they expanded the Lua capabilities in the game by modifying the executable file, and I tend to agree with Gerter that they only have fragments of code.
No, the modifications are still at the level of changing some variables, like how the number of possible slots for creatures was increased for NCF. As for the source code, the situation is extremely unclear... it seems like they have it, but those who are actually working on the mod only receive small parts of the code from the person who owns it. There are definitely no new Lua functions yet, but they might appear if what's in my screenshot is completed.
Нет войне.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Gerter
User Avatar
Offline footman
Registered:
Posts: 407
#98
Auto-translated
Gerter
the number of possible slots for creatures was increased for NCF.
This means they were digging around in index.bin, as that's where new slots for creatures are added. Otherwise, neither the map editor nor the game would recognize the new creatures (I wanted to create a mini-mod for myself that would restore the Black Knights, and it simply didn't work without the index.bin from NCF).
0
⚖️
0
In reply to footman
User Avatar
Offline Gerter
Registered:
Posts: 870
#100
Auto-translated
footman
So, you were digging around in index.bin, which is where new slots for creatures are added. Otherwise, neither the map editor nor the game will recognize the new creatures (I wanted to create a mini-mod for myself that would restore the Black Knights, and it simply didn't work without the index.bin from ncf).
index.bin seems to be something different; it stores information about resources created through the extended editor and is responsible for displaying them when the editor is restarted. The default index.bin also handles the display of developer objects in the editor, and the ncf version, I think, handles the display of new creatures in the tab that allows you to place them on the map through the editor. The NCF core itself is an executable file in which the constant responsible for the number of creatures in the game has been changed (by default, this is 180, increased to 1000) + the Creatures.xdb file has been modified.
Нет войне.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Gerter
User Avatar
Offline zahar0z
Registered:
Posts: 621
#101
Auto-translated
I was mainly talking about distributing visual "standalone" assets in this way.
In reality, the option with a strict "in order for a user to use this, they must download it from me" approach is only necessary for a short time. If the community's attitude towards such collaboration changes, and it will change if we persistently follow the path I described, then over time, links and names will be sufficient. And the files can still be integrated into the body of a large mod.
The goal of these efforts is to show users that there are not only authors of large mods but also people creating individual assets for this game. So that, by being such a person, one could have some kind of audience and survive.
Plus, if it becomes easier to create mod compilations, there will be more of them, which means people will see that assets are moving from one compilation to another, clearly not the work of the compilation's creators. Plus, all sorts of garbage compilations will die out, and only the most worthwhile ones will remain.

This applies more to visual mods, but you can also make maps and snippets of code for scripts freely available. (snippets of code will have to be given away completely)

Regarding "prohibiting use." Footman, this is technically impossible, and it would be harmful to everyone, including us.
Группа в вк посвящённая моим модам

Страничка моего последнего мода на ModDB

Моя страничка на Artstation,
где можно посмотреть и повертеть внутри браузера мои 3d модели.
0
⚖️
0
User Avatar
Offline Gerter
Registered:
Posts: 870
#102
Auto-translated
But in practice, how would it work? It's clear here on the forum, but what about on external resources? Would the idea be to distribute it, let's say, through "official representatives," i.e., admins of groups/leaders of other communities, who would act as a guarantee for preserving authorship?
Нет войне.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Gerter
User Avatar
Offline zahar0z
Registered:
Posts: 621
#103
Auto-translated
Sorry, I'm a bit tired, let me tell you later how it will look. Or better yet, I'll show you when I release the mod with neutral creatures from Heroes of Might and Magic VII.

Added 2 minutes later
There's only one guarantee: awareness among others. If everyone (or at least many) already knows who created it, then it will be impossible to "steal" it. We just need to strive for that. Publicity is needed, which is why I urge cooperation with decent groups, and conversely, fighting against those who don't credit the authors.
Группа в вк посвящённая моим модам

Страничка моего последнего мода на ModDB

Моя страничка на Artstation,
где можно посмотреть и повертеть внутри браузера мои 3d модели.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to footman
User Avatar
Offline psatkha
Registered:
Posts: 2,864
#104
Auto-translated
footman
This means they were digging around in index.bin, which is where new slots for creatures are added. Otherwise, neither the map editor nor the game will recognize the new creatures (I wanted to create a mini-mod for myself that would restore the Black Knights, and it simply didn't work without the index.bin from ncf).

The main thing is in the .exe file, because even if you write anything outside of the .exe, the game will give an error and nothing more!
С уважением, Psatkha (Псатха)

---------------------------------------------

Неудачное планирование ведёт к неудаче ...

NCF - мод, добавляющий дополнительных существ в HeroesV 3.1
0
⚖️
0
In reply to psatkha
User Avatar
Offline zahar0z
Registered:
Posts: 621
#105
Auto-translated
Gerter
index.bin is something different; it stores information about resources created through the extended editor and is responsible for their display when the editor is restarted. The default index.bin also handles the display of developer objects in the editor, and the NCF version, I think, handles the display of new creatures in the tab that allows you to place them on the map through the editor. The NCF core itself is an executable file in which the constant responsible for the number of creatures in the game has been changed (by default, this is 180, increased to 1000) + the Creatures.xdb file has been modified.
psatkha
The main thing is in the .exe file, because even if you write anything outside the .exe, the game will give an error and nothing more!

Yes, as far as I understand, you are all correct.
Группа в вк посвящённая моим модам

Страничка моего последнего мода на ModDB

Моя страничка на Artstation,
где можно посмотреть и повертеть внутри браузера мои 3d модели.
0
⚖️
0