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Could you provide a link to the official version of the M200-Papich-pack?
PROger
Posts from Heading towards CIS-2020.
HellLighT
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Well, I'm not thrilled with the template pool either, but I see the logic behind the choice. Everyone is clamoring and trying to get their favorite type of template included, but the pool has a little bit of everything. There's the most common mirror template, the most common XL+U, a popular Jebus-style template with balanced elements, the most popular M200 (you can choose this size based on popularity alone), and an additional L+U (I wouldn't say it's more popular than the mini-nost, but it's roughly the same). There's logic to it, and while I'm not happy with the XL+U pack, just like some people aren't happy with the Jebus pack, I can accept that they tried to "please everyone."
=Stinger=
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The pool is a bit shallow, and the wine, apparently, was not only a surprise but also sparkling. I'm all for m200, of course, but why jk and not jc, or at least mt_jc? Only drug addicts and Reddit users play Diamond; anarchy or mini-nostu would be better. =) I just imagined Cherk and Chet, and I chuckled a bit.
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I still hope that common sense will prevail someday. Specifically... what are the best ideas I know of from the latest tournaments?
(1) A pool of 6 templates. The drafting follows a pattern.
-1 - 1 - 2 - 1, meaning the first player drafts one more template than the other before the decisive moment, leaving the other with two to choose from, and the second player finishes the drafting.
(2) The pool must include the three best esports templates: 6lm10a, mt_JC, and h3dm, or some of the latest reasonable versions.
(From this, it seems to mathematically follow that JK should also be included because Jebus is a must, but why have two Crossworlds? I'm not sure.)
(3) Diamond is the worst template ever; it has no place at an event if the event isn't meant to be turned into a random circus, and it shouldn't be in the pool.
I'm suggesting that the organizers should meet again and think about it some more. Please invite Stinger, Lizard, and Helena.
Redwhait
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The pool is a bit short, and the wine, apparently, was not only unexpected but also sparkling. I'm all for m200, of course, but why jk, and not jc, or at least mt_jc? Only drug addicts and Redditors play Diamond; it's better to play Anarchy or Mini Nostu. =) I imagined Cherk and Chot, and I chuckled a little.
Don't include me in this:D
I would gladly swap Diamond for Mini Nostu or Anarchy, or even CM, if we're being honest, but with such a short pool, I'll have to train m200:mad:
o1dboy79
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Some might not be thrilled to hear that we drove all the way to the Finnish border just to take a random M200 for a spin, LOL.
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There will always be a pool of people unhappy with the templates, so let the majority of participants be angry — at least there is some balance in that. The organizers and judges are brave to take on such a difficult decision, respect to you!
P.S. I, for example, am categorically against seeding by rating, since the seeding will most likely be based on the HotA lobby rating rather than HeroesWorld. The prospect of dropping out before the group stage does not inspire me, especially on a random papist M200
P.S. I, for example, am categorically against seeding by rating, since the seeding will most likely be based on the HotA lobby rating rather than HeroesWorld. The prospect of dropping out before the group stage does not inspire me, especially on a random papist M200
=Lizard=
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It's okay that they're angry. Some of the top players, as a result of this "difficult" decision by the organizers, are refusing to participate. It was planned to be the strongest tournament in the history of the CIS. Without FTS, Dave, and Lucky, that's very doubtful. And if Shop also skips it, then... It will just be a standard "St. Petersburg m200" tournament, just with a larger number of participants.
Dirty_Player
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Right now, there is only one version of h3dm1. With a ban on Greenie and others.
Just like with Diamond. The road fix has been the default for two years already.
Can you provide a link to the official version of M200-Papich-pack?
They are angry, okay. But some of the main top players refuse to participate as a result of this "difficult" decision by the organizers. It was planned that this would be the strongest in the history of the CIS region. Without FTS, Dave, and Lucky, this is very doubtful. And if Shop also skips it, then... It will just turn out to be a standard "St. Petersburg m200", just with an expanded roster.
Optimal pool: mt-jc, h3dm, jk, 6lm, diamond.
But linking the absence of FTS and Dave at the tournament to the templates is not logical at all. :confused:
(1) A pool of 6 templates. The ban goes according to a scheme.
-1 - 1 - 2 -1, i.e., the first player bans one template more than the other before the decisive moment, leaving two for the other to choose from; the second finishes the banning process.
Montt
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Could you explain the logic behind excluding the most popular map in Heroes over the past few years from the map pool? Jebus Cross is popular not only among viewers but also among players. I don't know of any discipline where the most popular map or hero is missing from the pool without any apparent reason. Attributing the absence of Jebus to its randomness, while having M200 in the pool, is definitely not justifiable. It hasn't bored anyone, except maybe a couple of streamers who play it five times a day. At the same time, it is significantly different from JK, and I don't see any reason why they can't coexist in the same pool; it's still a best-of-one match, so only one of them will be played.
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I don't understand the logic behind 6 templates at all. It doesn't matter what pattern the ban follows. One player bans 3 templates, the other bans 2. This is already a significant imbalance. It depends heavily on luck. Why introduce this additional factor? I don't like it at all.
And they didn't even take a compromise approach with a Mini-Nost.
Diamond could at least have been mirrored.
HellLighT
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You know, these so-called "top" players haven't even offered any alternatives other than adding a couple of their favorite templates to the pool, so that after the draft, there's still something left for them. They're used to playing with 2-3 templates (and it seems strange that I'm the one saying this), and now they don't want to play because they don't get to use them? Come on, that makes them fake top players.
P.S. However, if the majority support a mini-tournament instead of the Diamond tournament, that would be a reasonable replacement, because, as I said, they are basically the same.
P.S. However, if the majority support a mini-tournament instead of the Diamond tournament, that would be a reasonable replacement, because, as I said, they are basically the same.
ЯR
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There will always be a group of people dissatisfied with the templates, so let the majority of participants be angry; at least there is some balance in that. The organizers and judges are doing a great job taking on such a difficult decision; respect to you!
This decision isn't difficult; it's cowardly. They created a pool of templates against Shopy, which is why even JC was replaced. They should do as Xocenk suggests, letting a coin decide the issue, and JK, Diamond, and Papich m200 are just a joke?! Also, Elena's option with voting (proposing 3 templates) seems reasonable because the organizers have already shown their templates...
=Lizard=
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Actually, I didn't like it 4 out of 5 times; that's just an arithmetic calculation. The absence of the mirrored Jebus map saddens me much more than all the other issues. Because it's not only my favorite map, but also the perfect one for LAN parties. Since it's moderately skill-based, moderately random, and moderately fast-paced. For example, our game with Anton in Tbilisi demonstrated this, where everything was decided by one of my not-so-obvious (especially under time pressure) mistakes.
I think main problem is balance of templates. Current pool doesn't offer many good options, mirrors are used to be more balanced but i'm not sure about that 100%.
In my opinion making "quality tourmanent" for everyone is impossible but there is always a chance to make rng less important than players skill. Am i wrong if i say jebus, diamond or m200 are more about rng than 6lm10a or h3dm1? Making 3/5 "more random" templates as map pool isn't healthy for tournament.
I can be wrong, it's only my point of view. Coming SNG first time and i'm fine to spend a nice week in other way than "main event")
In my opinion making "quality tourmanent" for everyone is impossible but there is always a chance to make rng less important than players skill. Am i wrong if i say jebus, diamond or m200 are more about rng than 6lm10a or h3dm1? Making 3/5 "more random" templates as map pool isn't healthy for tournament.
I can be wrong, it's only my point of view. Coming SNG first time and i'm fine to spend a nice week in other way than "main event")
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