Heading towards CIS-2020. — Online Tournaments

=Lizard=

6 years ago

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The war of mages and anarchy, in my opinion, are formats that deserve to exist; they are quite fun. But overall, as has been said many times over the years, we try to position the CIS tournament as the main tournament of the year. For example, I would like the strongest Polish players to come with Wojtek: Szopa, Dawid... But it is unlikely that they will come to the SOD. Let's follow not tastes and polls (which is even worse), but logic. Logic supports a clean hotseat format, and it's pointless to argue with that. P.S. The game rules will not affect my decision to come; I am ready to play in the SOD if necessary; there are much more complex factors. But still, I am in favor of logic.

ЯR

6 years ago

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I agree with Lizard; he's not suggesting anything outrageous in the end!

In reply to MerlinTheMagician

Freeman

6 years ago

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MerlinTheMagician

A mix, but not like this year, but a full-fledged one.
By the way, I couldn't find any information anywhere about which templates the players used in Georgia. Please share a link.

Matches of the 1/16 finals:
1. Stinger def Wawrzynietec / HotA, h3dm1
2. Huanito def Napalm / SoD, JC

Matches of the 1/8 finals:
1. Caliban def Stinger / HotA, 6lm10a
2. Jelen117 def Huanito / SoD, JC
3. Amiloo def Proger / HotA, JC
4. Falcone def JOCb / HotA, h3dm1
5. HellLight def Yar / HotA, 6lm10a
6. Lizard def Flate / Hota, 6lm10a
7. Dave_Hun def MinasMorgul / SoD, 6lm10a
8. RedWhait def St_Klaus / SoD, mini nosta

Matches of the 1/4 finals:
1. Caliban vs Jelen117 / HotA, 6lm10a
2. Amiloo vs Falcone / HotA, h3dm1
3. HellLight vs Lizard / HotA, mt_jc
4. Dave_Hun vs Redwhait / SoD, mini-nosta

Matches of the 1/2 finals:
1. Jelen117 vs Falcone / HotA, JC
2. HellLight vs Dave_Hun / SoD, diamond

Final and match for 3rd place:
1. HellLight vs Falcone / HotA, JC
2. Jelen117 vs Dave_Hun / HotA, 6lm10a

I think so.

In reply to ЯR

злой_романтик

6 years ago

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No one will be forced to play SoD; if you both want to, play your HotA. You can even choose your own maps (not from the list). The problem is that there is a certain percentage of players who want to play SoD (and it's not just me; moreover, I'm not even sure I'll have time to participate). It would be wrong to exclude them, but again, if the overwhelming majority say they only want to play HotA, then so be it. Regarding the Poles, firstly, it's not a given that they will come, and secondly, with such an overwhelming dominance of HotA players, as you say, the chances of them facing a true SoD player are very slim, and even then, they can easily create a HotA map if they really want to.

Freeman

Matches of the 1/16 finals:
1. Stinger def Wawrzynietec / HotA, h3dm1
2. Huanito def Napalm / SoD, JC

Matches of the 1/8 finals:
1. Caliban def Stinger / HotA, 6lm10a
2. Jelen117 def Huanito / SoD, JC
3. Amiloo def Proger / HotA, JC
4. Falcone def JOCb / HotA, h3dm1
5. HellLight def Yar / HotA, 6lm10a
6. Lizard def Flate / Hota, 6lm10a
7. Dave_Hun def MinasMorgul / SoD, 6lm10a
8. RedWhait def St_Klaus / SoD, mini nosta

Matches of the 1/4 finals:
1. Caliban vs Jelen117 / HotA, 6lm10a
2. Amiloo vs Falcone / HotA, h3dm1
3. HellLight vs Lizard / HotA, mt_jc
4. Dave_Hun vs Redwhait / SoD, mini-nosta

Matches of the 1/2 finals:
1. Jelen117 vs Falcone / HotA, JC
2. HellLight vs Dave_Hun / SoD, diamond

Final and match for 3rd place:
1. HellLight vs Falcone / HotA, JC
2. Jelen117 vs Dave_Hun / HotA, 6lm10a

Something like that.

12/6 HotA-SoD.

ЯR

I agree with Lizard; he's not suggesting a Wargame Tournament in the end!

Will you come? P.S. - I would play a Wargame Tournament

Grizvald

6 years ago

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Viewers of CIS game streams care about the content (not necessarily) – the games themselves, of course, various videos, interviews, etc. Regarding the games – if there's a mutual exchange with the "commentators," who seem to have an excess of some magical elixir in their blood, then, apart from jokes that only those present at the event will understand and total noise, not much happens. Again, if there's an opportunity to watch the players on their channels, that's ideal, but everyone knows what the internet is like in the CIS.

In reply to злой_романтик

MerlinTheMagician

6 years ago

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Without spectators - the final price per person will increase approximately twofold for each player. People are paying their own cash (not donating, but specifically paying). They have a right to a voice. We just need to calculate its value (conventionally, two or three times less).
There is a big difference between a stream audience with donations and the mandatory injection of one's own cash into an event. Donations are voluntary. Paying the base fee at a set price is not. Without spectators - the payment level for each player increases accordingly. In recent years, spectators accounted for 40-50%.

Now regarding the championship that took place in Georgia.
18 games. Of those, 6 games were played on SoD. And this is considering that the mix was incomplete: there were more HotA templates than SoD templates.
It's clear that the statistical sample is insignificantly small, but even based on it, it's obvious that it's too early to write off SoD in the CIS format.

In reply to Grizvald

злой_романтик

6 years ago

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Grizvald

but everyone in the CIS knows what the internet is like.

I understand that it sounds discouraging, but this time they promised a good connection, and I even checked specifically today, although, of course, we won't know for sure until we test it.

Grizvald

6 years ago

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Sorry, Minsk had excellent internet (no joke).

ЯR

6 years ago

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88% chance I will come.

HellLighT

6 years ago

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Without an audience, the final price per person will increase by approximately two times for each player. People pay their money (they don't donate, they actually pay). They have a right to vote. We just need to calculate its value (conditionally, two or three times less).
There is a big difference between the audience of a stream with donations and the mandatory investment of money in an event. Donations are voluntary. Paying a fixed price is not. Without an audience, the payment level per player increases accordingly. In recent years, the audience has been 40-50%.

So, you're saying that it's all about the money, and let's say if someone comes and throws in 200k with the words "+10 votes for Warlords of the Tower" and a couple of old-timers support it, then they will play it as the main version and not care that someone hasn't even played it and only heard about it, right? Kirill, you shouldn't even talk about your money. In my opinion, it's much worse if, instead of these viewers, players of the new generation don't come, who will come not to relax but to compete and in the future will be a possible core of these tournaments.

=Lizard=

6 years ago

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Well, if 200K is invested, we can easily play any version, even Wrath of the Gods))) isn't that right, Antonio?;)

злой_романтик

6 years ago

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I’m afraid that Asm or Mi can’t afford such expenses, although what an advertisement for VT it would be :D

In reply to MerlinTheMagician

Freeman

6 years ago

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MerlinTheMagician

Without viewers, the final price per person will approximately double for each player. People pay their money (they don't donate, they actually pay). They have a right to vote. We just need to calculate its value (conditionally, two or three times less).
There is a big difference between the audience of a stream with donations and the mandatory contribution of money to an event. Donations are voluntary. Paying a fixed price is not. Without viewers, the payment level per player increases accordingly. In recent years, there have been 40-50% viewers.

Now about the championship that took place in Georgia.
18 games. Of these, 6 games were played on SoD. And this is taking into account that the mix was not complete: there were more HotA templates than SoD templates.
It is clear that the statistical array is extremely small, but even from it, it is obvious that it is too early to write off SoD in the CIS format.

Not quite: 6 players played SoD, and one of them won the tournament, essentially 3 games of SoD - this is Dave Hun, RedWhait 2 (one of them with Dav), 2 Huanito, 1 Napalm, Klon Klopa, Sklaus each.

That's all, no one else talked about SoD, and some of the above players have completely stopped playing SoD, so the demand has decreased (we are talking about RedWhait).
P.S. Once again, from myself: I am not claiming anything, if there is a mix, I will play, if there is HotA, I will play, if there is only SoD, I will not play, but I will come 100%, because I really didn't want to leave Tbilisi and, when I got on the plane, I realized that I would have to wait a whole year (((

In reply to HellLighT

oxygen_hl

6 years ago

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In my opinion, there's no need to ask the viewers about the game version. The location is what matters. The version doesn't really matter to me personally.

HellLighT

Kirill, you shouldn't even talk about your money.

Antoha, don't get cocky.

In reply to Freeman

MerlinTheMagician

6 years ago

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HellLighT

So, you're saying that it all comes down to money, and let's say someone shows up and throws in 200k with the words "+10 votes for Warlords and a couple of old-timers will support it," then they'll play it as the main version, and who cares that no one even plays it and only heard about it, right?

I'm talking about the fact that the viewers who regularly attend, in my opinion, should have the right to vote within reasonable limits. No more, no less.
And regarding the money, I don't understand your point. Are you resorting to personal attacks? Well, I'll answer: you could think that your trips aren't paid for from the outside...

Let's say that the total cost for renting the entire venue is x, which is divided by (n players + z viewers), and among them, viewers make up 40-50% of the total number annually (and not because viewers are taking away accommodation places from players, but because the number of players remains roughly the same). Now, remove the viewers from the equation, and you'll see the difference in price for each player (and, meanwhile, viewers also contribute to the prize pool).

The discussion started in advance, well ahead of time, and now we have time to come to some balanced decision that will cover a larger part of the target audience.

Freeman

P.S. Once again, from myself: I'm not claiming anything, if it's a mix, I'll play, if it's HotA, I'll play, if it's only SoD, I won't play, but I'll come 100%, because I really didn't want to leave Tbilisi and, when I got on the plane, realized that I would have to wait a whole year (((

Well, that's why Roma will create a poll. It's obvious that a pure SoD version is not possible.
My assessment is that a full mix can attract more players and viewers than just HotA.
And, I repeat, it will allow us to make objective conclusions about whether it is worth including SoD in the future or not.

Added after 4 minutes

Freeman

Not quite: 6 players played SoD, and one of them won the tournament, essentially 3 SoD games - that's Dave Hun, RedWhait 2 (one of them with Dav), 2 Huanito, 1 Napalm, Klon Klopa, Sklaus

So, 6 players played SoD. Out of 18?
It seems like the statistics add up again...