Posts from Favorites, into battle! - 11. Auto-translated

Sanyok, you're a strong player, and your opinion is especially valuable. Just give a clear answer – how often does this happen? 70% of the time? 50%? 25%? Just give an approximate number.

p.s. The ban on heroes has been removed from the mirror towns. It's a fair trade for the first pick.

I'm not sure if this was discussed before, but does this mean that in the case of mirror towns, both players start with a random hero?

When will all this chaos end, and will there finally be a final set of rules, so we can finally decide whether or not to sign up for the tournament?

Guys, are you really planning to play with the "favorites"? Okay, I could understand if the issue of "nerfing" Necropolis and reverting the changes was raised, for example, in a competitive match, but here... Besides, the last two tournaments proved that Necropolis can be countered, and right now it seems like a change for the sake of change.
P.S. Everything written here is purely IMHO, I won't participate in the discussion or sign up for the tournament.

Slayzer, answered in ICQ.

When will the final regulations be published, so we can finally decide whether to register for the tournament or not?

The date was announced in the tournament thread right away: December 11th.
There are intense discussions in instant messaging to try to finish earlier, for example, on December 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th.

To avoid any mystery about what is being discussed in private messages, I will essentially write it here. A recent agenda has been slightly transformed.

1. NECROS.
Everything written below about necros does not apply to Jebus Cross and Anarchy — on those, everything remains as before.
1.1. TANTH. So far, it is obvious to everyone I talk to — the hero is broken. No one objects to this. He is not only leveled immediately for skeletons, but also carries on later, remaining the main hero, running through utopias and doing everything, everything, everything. He greatly "affects" the gameplay.
THE RULE SOLUTION BEING DISCUSSED — A global nerf to Tan’s leveling — similar to Isra and Vidomina — a ban on maxing necromancy until the last level-up.
1.2. GALT RAN. Generally sits banned as a starting hero. But if he gets in, he is mained just like Tan and decides games.
THE RULE SOLUTION BEING DISCUSSED — The same global nerf to Gal’s leveling — a ban on maxing necromancy until the last level-up. Unbanning him.
1.3. All other necro heroes. Now this is more interesting.
Dave provided arguments and proposed the same global nerf to the leveling of all necro heroes. But there are also counterarguments, including that nerfing Tan will already hit the necros, and besides, they could already be countered.
In short, after additional weighing, at the moment
THE RULE SOLUTION BEING DISCUSSED — A global nerf to the leveling of necro heroes for those not playing as Necropolis.
That is, let necros necro. As for others, the change is aimed precisely at strengthening the idea of the Favorites tournament and reducing the share of the necro-fest. We play with our own factions.

First and foremost, I want to get to the essence of these ideas, and so far the discussions are going optimistically. The technical implementation aspect remains and is being considered.

2. There was an idea — to give the three weakest towns (Swamp, Citadel, Inferno) some bonus, to strengthen them in some way. Options were suggested — playing in the tournament with random heroes, or even giving them a fixed retreat. Both were noted as interesting ideas but were not fully argued. Both quite noticeably contradict the idea of the tournament.
As a result of weighing the retreat ideas, nothing is clear at all yet.
As for random heroes, there were problems in that they affect more situations than desired.
However, two other good ideas were formulated that solve exactly the task originally set. If one is adopted in the tournament, it will be one of them.
THE RULE SOLUTION BEING DISCUSSED #2.1
My idea. The three towns — Swamp, Citadel, and Inferno — are given the right to decide whether the game will be played with random heroes. Thus, they can apply this right at will against specific towns. At the same time, they can keep their Tazar/Kreig against Conflux/Tower, and maybe even necros. Also, this rule will not affect games with Dungeon vs necro at all, etc.
THE RULE SOLUTION BEING DISCUSSED #2.2
De Luxe’s idea. Possibly even stronger. The three towns — Swamp, Citadel, and Inferno — are given the right to ban two starting heroes from the opponent. If, on 111, that hero arrives with an army in the tavern — tech res. The 111 rule also applies to games against Conflux, which starts with a random hero.

3. Regarding the template 8mm/6lm mix, no one knows anything yet. :smile43:
Although the fact that 8mm6a is not very good — no objections so far. I am aware that the mix has been played, and some people have an idea about it.
The talk is specifically about replacing 8mm6a with, say, a probably more strategic template based on it (ideologically close to 6lm10a), but there is a task to structure the information so that it is easy to grasp.

p.s. I also want to note that none of these directions of changes were initiated by me personally. I had certain thoughts about what the discussion in this thread should be about when I created it (I listed them immediately in the first post), but what came out is as much a surprise to me as it is to many here. However, these 1.1., 1.2, 1.3, 2.1 and 2.2 definitely appeal to me, so I continue to look for arguments for and against.

Should I withdraw from the tournament now, or can I wait? If there's a high chance that even one of these absurd proposals will pass, please remove me from the tournament now. I'd rather just play some fun matches than participate in this "unwanted players" game.

Fixing Necromancers (as was done with Vidomina and Isra) is complete nonsense. It simply breaks the game. Regarding Necromancers, I think it would be reasonable to reduce the percentage of Necromancy and bring back the two named heroes. Or, alternatively, leave everything as it is.
Banning heroes is also not a solution.
Regarding random heroes, my position is this: either make all heroes random for all factions, or leave it as it is. There's no need to create new rules.

P.S. My comments about Necromancers apply not only to this tournament but in general.

This is utter nonsense – CHANGING the gameplay of EXISTING rules – in a separate tournament – “because it’s more interesting” – is complete madness. The fact that this is some kind of bacchanalia or a joke for 300 – as Sanin wrote – I can still believe – but I will never believe that this is being seriously discussed. It’s a nonsensical idea, IMHO.

They just ruined the heroes...
Regarding random heroes, my position is this: either make all castles random, or leave it as it is. There's no need to create new rules.

I will try to surprise you. The whole topic – both part 1 and part 2 – started with this message:
/topic/at/1130567/
Before that, there was no talk about Necromancers or random heroes.
One of the participants in the discussion wanted to strengthen Inferno, but for some reason came up with the idea that everyone should play with random heroes (what the connection is remains a mystery – why should a Castle against Elves, or a Dungeon against Necromancer, play with random heroes if they wanted to strengthen Inferno? What’s the point?).
And gradually, they began to discuss all this; one thing led to another, word by word – and it turned into such a set of ideas.
If anyone has enough interest, they can follow the key suggestions and who made them in the thread.

For example, Tanta first brought up Reddit, who played previous Favorites as Necromancers (and played better than anyone else) – who knows the essence of the matter better than him?
Necrophix was suggested by Dave, who won the previous Favorites.
Can we say that these rather strong players have no understanding of the tournament, or didn't think about it when they wrote? I think you are saying exactly that.

So, Sir Davos, Styopa, Korovka, Sanin – I want you to understand that you are now writing about nonsense and chaos not to me, but to those who previously proposed these ideas in this topic.
Of course, I would like you to find the strength to write what specifically constitutes the nonsense, otherwise you will not be much different from opponents of OH from the point of view of supporters of OH.

Somewhere in the thread, it was mentioned that if Necropolis wins for three years in a row, and the overall meaning of the matches boils down to Necropolis, then we'll think about making changes. But for now, it's just that Ivan proved that even Haven can win, and Misha is too lazy to win with Inferno. I don't see any point in discussing such things. Yes, Necropolis saves/helps to start many matches, and so on... but why cut them/remove them/ban them/fix them? Let those who want to play, play.

So, Sir Davos, Styopa, Korovka, Sanin – I want you to understand – you are currently writing about nonsense and chaos not to me, but to those who previously suggested these ideas in this thread.
.

No. This is precisely something that applies to you and no one else. If the tournament organizer seriously undertakes to organize a heated discussion about someone's wild fantasies, then such a tournament will soon be doomed.

I still think that starting with random heroes as favorites would be interesting.
I suggest launching a poll to determine the opinion of the majority.
Regarding Necropolis, we need to understand if the community needs general changes to necromancy: confused: , we can also launch a poll. But this issue is more large-scale and affects the overall gameplay, so more time is needed to avoid causing harm.
Perhaps we are not ready for this yet, a poll would show this, rather than the opinions of individual people like me or you.

I think we need to find a more competent organizer. Otherwise, it seems like the participants are starting to develop a dislike for everything that’s happening. :(

Generally, are there any people who like at least one of the ideas described above? It seems like it's time to close the topic.

Added 1 minute ago

It seems that the participants are developing a dislike for everything that is happening. :(

I have the same feeling.

Added 2 minutes ago

I still think that starting with random heroes as favorites would be interesting.

Let's create polls for every single issue! I was against creating this topic in the first place, because such discussions never end well.