OFB-12 — Tournament History online

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Announcement

Sanin

8 years ago

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«OFB - 12»

Registration is open for the qualifying tournament for the most prestigious online HoMM 3 tournament on heroesworld.ru – «Final Battle»

Organizational Matters:

1. Tournament host – Sanin (ICQ - 423164784); judges – LuckyF (ICQ - 681350680), Dave_HUN (ICQ - 635192642), Dirty Player (ICQ - 408722873).
2. The tournament is official, regular, and conducted according to the Rules for organizing, conducting, and participating in online HOMM3 tournaments.
3. All tournament games are included in the HoMM3 HW Player Rating.
4. After the start of tournament games, the tournament regulations will not change.
5. Disputed matters, if any arise, are discussed outside the forum. To resolve, contact the host or one of the tournament judges on ICQ and provide daily save files, ICQ logs, and other necessary information.
6. Tournament games must be played within the established deadline. Violation of game deadlines may, at the discretion of the host and tournament judges, result in penalties up to and including disqualification from the tournament.

Requirements for Participants:

- Players with unconfirmed reports will not be accepted into the tournament.
- Applications from players recently registered on the forum will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.
- The organizers reserve the right to refuse registration to players who have repeatedly withdrawn or been disqualified from other HeroesWorld tournaments.

Regulations

Rules:

1. Game Version: The tournament is played on the SoD version + HD mod.
2. Tournament games use the HW_rulez 1.40 and HW_rulez 1.38.2 patches.
HW_rulez 1.38.2 patch is used for playing on the h3dm1 template and for games in "Battle of Mages" mode.
HW_rulez 1.40 patch is used for all other templates and in all rounds except the second.
3. The tournament is conducted according to the rules of online HoMM 3 games.
Clarification to the rules: on all templates, the "Mage Guild Restructure" option must be enabled, while when playing with the HW_rulez 1.40 patch, the "Library Restructure" option is disabled. When playing with the HW_rulez 1.38.2 patch, there are no restrictions on Library Restructure.
4. Restarts total 3 days (111+111+111 or 111+112 or 113), for the h3dm1 template – one day (111).
5. Templates:
Panic, h3dm1, Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, Jebus Cross, 6lm10a, Spider.
The template is chosen by standard drawing of lots, the order of the draw is determined by a coin toss.
6. The tournament game regulations will change depending on the round.
First Round: standard bidding, standard rules.
Second Round: standard bidding, games are played with the "Battle of Mages" option enabled (more about the option).
Third Round: standard bidding, standard rules.
Fourth Round: standard bidding, but opponents choose each other's starting heroes (see the 2010 tournament for an example).
Details. For all templates except h3dm1: after generating a pair of towns in the lobby, standard bidding takes place. The player who wins the bidding chooses their town first, after which opponents assign each other starting heroes.
For the h3dm1 template: a random town is generated in the lobby, after which opponents bid for the right to assign the opponent's hero first.
Fifth Round: standard bidding, standard rules.
Sixth Round: 200% fullrandom on all templates. Color is determined by a coin toss and changes after each subjective restart.
Seventh Round: standard bidding, standard rules.
Eighth Round: standard bidding, games are played without rules on all templates.
Ninth Round: standard bidding, standard rules.
7. Color selection: bidding is conducted for the right to choose color (exception - sixth round).

Tournament Format:

1. Registration from July 13 to July 21 (dates may be adjusted, follow updates).
2. Start of tournament games – July 23, 2018. End of tournament – November 26, 2018.
3. The tournament is conducted using the Swiss system in 9 rounds. Each round lasts 14 days.
4. Within the round deadline, a report of the completed round game must be submitted in the tournament thread to record the tournament result. Failure to comply with this rule requirement will result in either a technical result or a 0-0 score being assigned for the match.
5. Round deadlines:
Round 1: July 23 – August 5
Round 2: August 6 – August 19
Round 3: August 20 – September 2
Round 4: September 3 – September 16
Round 5: September 17 – September 30
Round 6: October 1 – October 14
Round 7: October 15 – October 28
Round 8: October 29 – November 11
Round 9: November 12 – November 25
6. A win gives 3 points, a draw gives 1 point, a loss gives 0 points.
Places are determined based on points earned.
In case of a tie in points, the following tiebreakers apply in order of priority:
1) Buchholz coefficient;
2) Number of wins;
3) Head-to-head result;
If the tiebreakers do not allow for the distribution of places among participants who may qualify for the final stage of the tournament, tie-breaks will be held.
Tie-break rules: drawing lots for templates, random pair of towns + bidding for town choice and color choice.
7. 16 players participate in the «Final Battle–12»:
FB-11 Winner LuckyF,
FB-11 2nd place Dave_HUN,
FB-11 3rd place FireToSky,
Winner or finalist of the «Only XL-5» tournament,
Winner or finalist of the «Favorites, Into Battle-10» tournament,
Winner or finalist of the «Wowa Memorial» tournament,
Winner of the «Новичок - 2018. Winter» tournament, provided they have a rating of 1750+,
The top 9 places (guaranteed) – from the OFB-12 tournament.

Additions:
If the winner of the «Новичок - 2018. Winter» tournament refuses to participate in FB-12, their slot will be taken by the finalist of that tournament;
If the winner (finalist) of the «Новичок - 2018. Winter» tournament does not have a rating of 1750+ at the start of the FB-12 tournament, their slot will be taken by the player who finished 10th or lower in OFB-12;
If LuckyF, Dave_HUN or FireToSky refuse to participate in FB-12, their slot will be taken by a player from the OFB-12 tournament;
If LuckyF, Dave_HUN or FireToSky win the «Only XL-5», «Favorites, Into Battle-10» or «Wowa Memorial» tournaments, the right to participate in FB-12 passes to the finalists of those tournaments.
If the winners of the «Only XL-5», «Favorites, Into Battle-10» or «Wowa Memorial» tournaments are among the players who take a qualifying place in OFB-12 or refuse to participate in the FB-12 tournament, the right to participate in FB-12 passes to the finalists of those tournaments.
If the finalists of the «Only XL-5», «Favorites, Into Battle-10» or «Wowa Memorial» tournaments are also among the players who take a qualifying place in OFB-12, or refuse to participate in the FB-12 tournament, their slot will be taken by the player who finished 10th or lower in OFB-12.

In reply to Sanin

Georg_

7 years ago

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Sanin

Perhaps some will have questions about the principles of calculating the Buchholz coefficient, especially since Redwhait overtook Georg_ by 0.5 Buchholz points. I'll say right away - I've already addressed the question to Dirty_Player, and I hope he will clarify.

Yes, there are questions; it's not very clear how it's calculated, and where these 0.5 points come from...

In reply to Georg_

Dirty_Player

7 years ago

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Georg_

Yes, there are questions; it's not very clear how it's calculated, and where these 0.5 values come from.

The Swiss Master program handles all the calculations. I haven't quite figured out where these 0.5 values come from; it's probably related to the players who have been eliminated, and the system assigns them some points for that. With a point system of 1-0.5-0, everything seems clear, but with 3-1-0, it's not clear. I couldn't figure it out right away; I'll try to understand it better tomorrow with a fresh mind.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Georg_

7 years ago

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Yeah, it seems like 0.5 points are awarded to those who have already been eliminated. But not leaving just because of 0.5 points seems a bit unsportsmanlike. I demand a tiebreaker match with Redwhite!))

In reply to sir Davos Seaworth

Sanin

7 years ago

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Sir Davos Seaworth

Shouldn't the winner of the "Novichok" tournament immediately have 1750 rating points?
It seems like they have a year until the next FB (Faction Battle). Correct me if I'm wrong.

The regulations for the "Novichok - 2018. Winter" tournament clearly state that it is about the FB-12 tournament.

In reply to Sanin

Xocenk

7 years ago

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Couldn't you just calculate the Buchholz score manually? It's the sum of the scores of the players you played against during the tournament, right?

In reply to Dirty_Player

kamukag3e

7 years ago

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Dirty_Player

The Swiss Master program calculates everything; I still don't understand where these 0.5 points come from. It's probably related to players who have dropped out, and the system assigns them some points for that. With a 1-0.5-0 point system, everything seems clear, but with 3-1-0, it's not. I couldn't figure it out right away; I'll try to understand it better tomorrow with a fresh mind.

To make it easier to think and understand, I'll provide a Buchholz calculation example for players who ended up with 18 points:
Buchholz calculation for twaryna: Montt 15, Roger_ua 12, Alin 8, Ihromant 15, Dima_Surmay 18, Dust_HL 12, Toganash 15, kamukag3e 19, Antiplayer 19.
Total: 133. But the program calculates 125, where 8 points are missing (this isn't a mistake).

For Dima Surmay, the Buchholz should be 138, not 140.
For Redwhait, it should be 140, not 130.5
For Georg_, it should be 132, not 130.

But for Amiloo, the Buchholz should be 105, not 113:
Sanin 15, De_Luxe 12, Dima_Surmay 18, ProtosArchon 15, MrP1nchy 9, Johnny the bony 0, Yostairs 18, Лось 6, WAYD 12.

The most interesting thing is where Yostairs gets a Buchholz of 131.5; the calculation shows 123:
Xocenk 24, De_Luxe 12, saneok 24, Court 0, sonic111 15, Amiloo 18, graalzzz 9, Grizvald 3, Georg_ 18.

Added 5 minutes ago

Sanin

The final table is at the top of the page.

According to the regulations, the first nine players will receive an invitation to the Final Battle: saneok, Xocenk, herolwy, kamukag3e, Antiplayer, Jelen117, =Lizard=, Gomunguls, Dima Surmay.

Since saneok is participating in the Final Battle through the quota of the "Only XL" tournament, his slot in the Open Final Battle, according to the regulations, goes to Yostairs.

Also, according to the regulations, Redwhait will replace the winner of the "Novice" tournament, kolianxxxxxx, who did not achieve a rating of 1750.

All subsequent players, starting with Georg_, have a chance to get into the Final Battle if someone who has secured a spot refuses to participate. (This is relevant for everyone except De_Luxe - his slot can only be taken by Falcone - the finalist of the Vova Memorial).

Perhaps someone will have questions about the principles of calculating the Buchholz coefficient, especially since Redwhait overtook Georg_ by 0.5 Buchholz. I'll say right away - I've already addressed the question to Dirty_Player; I hope he will clarify.

It turns out that Redwhait should take 9th place, Dima Surmay should take 10th place, and twaryna should take 11th place.
If I calculated incorrectly and misled someone, I sincerely apologize. I calculated the Buchholz as Xocenk described, and Sanin also told me the same in ICQ.

In reply to kamukag3e

Dirty_Player

7 years ago

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kamukag3e

To make it easier to understand, I'll provide Buchholz's calculation using the example of players who ultimately have 18 points each:
Buchholz calculation for twaryna: Montt 15, Roger_ua 12, Alin 8, Ihromant 15, Dima_Surmay 18, Dust_HL 12, Toganash 15, kamukag3e 19, Antiplayer 19.
Total: 133. And the program calculates 125, where 8 points are missing (this is not a shelf).

Dima Surmay's Buchholz should be 138, not 140.
Redwhait has 140, not 130.5
Georg_ has 132, not 130.

But for Amiloo, on the contrary, the Buchholz should be 105, not 113:
Sanin 15, De_Luxe 12, Dima_Surmay 18, ProtosArchon 15, MrP1nchy 9, Johnny the bony 0, Yostairs 18, Los 6, WAYD 12.

The most interesting thing is where Yostairs gets a Buchholz of 131.5; the calculation gives 123:
Xocenk 24, De_Luxe 12, saneok 24, Court 0, sonic111 15, Amiloo 18, graalzzz 9, Grizvald 3, Georg_ 18

In general, if you calculate the total number of points scored by opponents, it does turn out to be true (with the exception of Amiloo; you have 6 for Los in your calculations, but it should be 9). Therefore, if you simply add everything up, you get:

Dima Surmay 138
Yostaris 123
Redwhait 140
Georg_ 136
Amiloo 108
twaryna 133

kamukag3e

If I calculated incorrectly and misled someone, I sincerely apologize. I calculated the Buchholz as Xocenk described, and Sanin also told me the same in ICQ.

The thing is, the program doesn't have a simple calculation, and it has its own view on byes. It treats all unplayed games (whether a bye or a loss) as +0.5 (possibly a bug, since +0.5 fits well into the 1-0.5-0 scoring system but not very well into the 3-1-0 system). Let's try to estimate for our situation. We subtract the points for byes from the total and add the points for unplayed games.

Dima Surmay 138 - 1*3 + 10*0.5 = 140
Yostaris 123 - 0 + 17*0.5 = 131.5
Redwhait 140 - 4*3 + 5*0.5 = 130.5
Georg_ 136 - 3*3 + 6*0.5 = 130
Amiloo 108 - 1*3 + 16*0.5 = 113

I only have questions about the calculations for twaryna. There are obvious discrepancies. It is clear that this is due to the fact that he has an unplayed game in the first round against Dust. But I haven't figured out how and what the system is based on. Moreover, my program gives him 132.2, and Sanin's program gives 125. Why this is the case, I have no idea. :confused: I'll try to figure it out. Perhaps, of course, it's another conspiracy against Twaryna in the OFB :D

=Lizard=

7 years ago

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As I’ve said many times, instead of engaging in this absurdity with Buchholz’s calculations (which has already taken several days, including weekends), they should have given the 6 players who scored 18 points the opportunity to compete for the 3 spots in the final bracket. It would have been clear and straightforward – just 3 playoff matches. I am 99.9% sure that by the time this post is written, they would have already played those matches, and there would be no arguments or tons of text about some calculation programs.

In reply to =Lizard=

Redwhait

7 years ago

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I only have one question: why did they only get concerned now, even though Sanin posted the results several rounds ago? Everyone agreed then, but now they don't like it. And the qualification matches before the tournament should have been announced back then...

In reply to Redwhait

Xocenk

7 years ago

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Why bother figuring out how the program calculates the scores (it's good to know for the future, of course)? According to the regulations, there can't be any 0.5 points:

6. A win in a game earns 3 points, a draw earns 1 point, and a loss earns 0 points.
Positions are determined based on the total points earned.
In case of a tie in points, the following additional criteria apply in order of priority:
1) Buchholz score;
2) Number of wins;
3) Head-to-head result;

We calculate the Buchholz score ourselves and determine the top 3 among those who scored 18 points. Otherwise, it contradicts the tournament regulations: the Buchholz score, not the score provided by the program, is the determining factor.

In reply to Redwhait

kamukag3e

7 years ago

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Redwhait

I only have one question: why are they only raising concerns now, even though Sanin posted the results several rounds ago? Everyone agreed then, but now they don't like it. And the qualification matches before the tournament should have been announced back then...

The fact that Buchholz's rating was calculated incorrectly for Sanin was known even before the start of the 9th round. I wrote to him about this in my personal message, and he agreed. He wrote that he would ask Derty how the Buchholz calculation works in the program. Now we are sorting it out.

In reply to Xocenk

Sanin

7 years ago

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Xocenk

Why bother figuring out how the program calculates it (it would be good to know for the future, of course)? According to the regulations, there can't be any 0.5:

6. A win in a game earns 3 points, a draw earns 1 point, and a loss earns 0 points.
Places are determined based on the total points earned.
In case of a tie in points, additional criteria apply in order of priority:
1) Buchholz coefficient;
2) Number of wins;
3) Head-to-head result;

We calculate the Buchholz coefficient ourselves and determine the top 3 among those who scored 18 points. Otherwise, it contradicts the tournament regulations: the Buchholz coefficient, not the coefficient provided by the program, is the determining factor.

What does "we calculate the Buchholz coefficient ourselves" mean? Does that mean we can calculate it ourselves, but according to what principles? Do you have accurate information (not just from Wikipedia, but from more reliable sources) on how to calculate it correctly?

The thing is, for games that weren't played, including those where players withdrew, points should be added to the coefficient, and that's how it was done in previous tournaments. But in OFB-11, the Buchholz coefficient wasn't needed, and no one tested this principle. In OFB-10, it also wasn't needed, but there, 1-0.5-0 points were awarded instead of 3-1-0.
In OFB-9, the Buchholz coefficient determined the seventh participant in the FB, and there, 2-1-0 points were awarded (I don't know what the "evil romantic" used back then).

In our case, a 3-1-0 point system was used.
First question: how many points should be awarded for an unplayed game? As we've found out, the program awards 0.5. Ideally, it should be 1, like for a draw. But what's the correct way?

Second question: if we recalculate it ourselves, should we do it according to the program's logic or another?

Third question: what should we do about the Tvarina coefficient, which the same program calculates differently for me and Dirty?

Here are the possible solutions:
1. Leave it as is. This is bad because of the controversial Tvarina coefficient.
2. Calculate it manually. This seems like the optimal option, but the question remains of how to calculate it correctly.
3. Play-off matches, but...

Redwhait

And transitional matches before the tournament should have been announced...

I agree with this statement.

In general, we're still thinking about it. If anyone believes they know exactly how to calculate it correctly, please let us know.

In reply to Sanin

Dima Surmay

7 years ago

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Where can I find the complete final results table for the tournament so I can calculate the results myself?

In reply to Sanin

Grando

7 years ago

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Sanin

In our case, a 3-1-0 point system was used.
First question: how many points should be awarded for an unplayed game? As we found out, the program awards 0.5. Ideally, it should be 1 – like for a draw. But what is the correct approach?

The correct approach is what you would do manually if there were no program.
If you (as the tournament judge) believe that 1 is the correct score for an unplayed game, then that is the correct approach.

Therefore, the program is not doing what you want, so as a programmer and a user, I'm telling you to discard the program and calculate everything manually, as you believe it should be done.
Close the issue that is currently at hand.
Then, deal with the program, or find a new one, so that you don't step on the same rake next time.

P.S. Another option is that maybe you can trick the stupid program. If it rigidly assigns 0.5 to unplayed games and this cannot be fixed.
Then maybe you can set 1.5 for a win and 0.5 for a draw.
And then it will calculate everything correctly on its own, just on a smaller scale (twice as small).

In reply to Grando

Georg_

7 years ago

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Perhaps the confusion arose due to the following nuance: "Appendix to the FIDE Tournament Rules Rules for the application of additional indicators Approved by the General Assembly in 1998 1. Accounting for unplayed games To eliminate the undesirable influence of unplayed games on the distribution of places, these games should be counted as follows: Regardless of the result of an unplayed game (win in the case where a player receives a point due to being "exempt," win or loss by default, or the game was not played because the player withdrew or was absent for one or more rounds), this result should be considered when determining the additional indicator as a draw for the player against himself." That is, when calculating the Buchholz score, the program treats technical wins or unplayed games of withdrawn players as draws with oneself. However, it is still unclear where these 0.5 points come from...