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Tournament Committee
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Offline Puzzz0
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#48
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Al Feyn


One question – are you referring to a specific situation:
1) in Heroes of Might and Magic 2, 2) when the friendship between two players ended, 3) as a result of one of them streamsniping or using some kind of program that gives an advantage, and 4) are you absolutely sure that at the time when point 3 occurred, this friendship was mutual?
Is that what you mean? (There's no need to go into the details of the situation.)
Okay.

To begin with, I was writing about the destruction of good human relationships, called "friendship," due to suspicions of unfair play.

That is, we are not talking about actual cheating. Because, if one player revealed the map or slightly increased movement points (let's assume this is a fact) in a game with another player, what kind of friendship can there be between them?! In this case, I would even be glad that the honest player stopped communicating with the cheater.

I have more than one story about two people who, before playing Heroes of Might and Magic, had absolutely no desire to cheat or suspect each other of cheating.
(Whether these were examples of "friendship" is something we can discuss later.)

This is what I meant when I said "it's all sad."

Let me give one example.

Let A be the first player, and B be the second.
I know of a situation where A, under time pressure, made a rather strange move. As a result, after analyzing the resulting game situation, B tried to ask A about the meaning of such a sudden action with little time left on the timer. A could not logically explain the meaning of his action to B. B became suspicious. This offended A for obvious reasons. The conversation continued, but it was no longer warm. I don't see the point in describing it in more detail.

Was this a friendship? It's impossible to say for sure. But, looking at the definition of this term on Wikipedia, I honestly lean towards the fact that it wasn't. However, there is no doubt that both players were reliable companions to each other.
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Offline Grando
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#49
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The moral of the story? Fast timers are bad. :D Seriously though, the point is clear now, and this is already a good example. I wouldn't call such a "friendship" reliable if it falls apart so quickly in a situation like this, but I don't see the point in delving into the specifics of this terminology right now. What's more important to me is that the example confirms the idea – what kind of person you are determines what kind of "friendship" you have. Some people will calmly discuss everything, answer questions, and figure out what's really going on and why. Others will get offended and ruin the whole dialogue (and the friendship along with it).
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In reply to Puzzz0
Offline Sav
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#50
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Puzzz0
in short, the above is everything that removes any thoughts of anarchy (or any other template without rules) on HotA
I will note (not entirely on topic, but I suspect many are unaware of this) that quite a lot has been restored in HotA anarchy: the Cartographer, Fort on a Hill, Sanctuary, scroll values, the Cape and Cloak, Galthran and Sir Mullich, monster and plague weeks, shifted object guards, and (although far less effective) the ability to steal objects with Flight. Well, and nobody canceled the Cloak of the Undead King, diplomacy, and 4 Dimension Doors, which haven't changed in HotA (you just need to disable tournament rules).

Of course, I'm not saying this can fully replace SOD anarchy (necromancy, Flaxo-birds, the general feeling of "true-SOD", as Wic positioned anarchy), but the very idea of a template based on using a number of imbalanced features can be viable on HotA as well. For instance, people sometimes play Clash of Dragons without rules — it can be perfectly adapted in this regard for HotA as well.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#51
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Can I also add something here? :D
I really love SoD; the game's atmosphere itself is what appeals to me, and this kind of graphics gives me pleasure comparable to what I felt as a child. When I look at HotA, it just doesn't feel right... Although I understand that the graphics have been reworked for the better. But this is just an aesthetic perception; personally, I am ready to play any version if necessary. New objects and the Castle don't scare me.

But as soon as I start weighing the pros and cons of SoD and HotA gameplay, I immediately remember a picture from one important match. We played all-random without rests. After that, I just want to play SoD with Jebus Cross and Anarchy. Just because HotA doesn't have that (and many other things), I'm willing to forgive everything.

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Offline kamukag3e
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#52
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However, the OnlyHL tournament is doing very well on SOD, while there aren't as many people who want to play 6LM and other HL maps in HOTU, although I might be wrong. Previously, people played SM maps, which are now considered unbalanced. So, a one-sided match on 6LM might not be as critical as losing badly on an SM map.
艰难获胜 herolwy
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Offline =Lizard=
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#53
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By the way, this is very close to my position (Dirty's post). Idk who labeled me as a "true HotA player," given that I regularly participate in SoD tournaments and even have victories in them. The only thing regarding graphics: I believe it's a matter of habit. We played with SoD graphics for too many years; for many, it is simply physically difficult to accept fundamental innovations. It's like, well, I don't know, there was a green fence in the yard for 10 years. And one morning you wake up, look out the window—and it's red. And it feels kind of wrong. And many people can feel uneasy about such things for a very long time; it depends on the person. As for me, I don't give a damn what color it is, as long as there are no holes in that fence and it's painted regularly (I think the analogy is clear).

p.s. And HLKs on any version are lol )) The only thing that was actually norms was 8mm6a fullVT.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#54
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kamukag3e
However, the OnlyHL tournament is doing great on SOD, while there aren't that many people who want to play 6LM and other HL maps in HOTU, so maybe I'm wrong. Before, they even played SM maps, which are now considered unbalanced. So, a one-sided game on 6LM might not be as critical as losing in one-sided fashion on an SM map.
The fact that all tournaments are played on SOD doesn't mean that people like the map generator. I think no sane person would refuse to have layouts like in the picture or blocks on roads not generated in the game.

There will be much fewer one-sided losses on SM maps (by a factor of several) if there is balance on the roads (again, hello HOTU).

And before, they only played SM maps, and there were wild arguments when new templates were introduced. Now it sounds crazy, but back then it was taken very seriously.
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Offline saneok
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#55
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Please share any discussions or arguments regarding the introduction of new templates during the time of the CMK (presumably, a specific game or mod). I'm really interested in reading them.
icq 699279927 discord saneok#0028


привет, можешь сменить подпись) 6лм - норм шабл, а джебус тупое говно. Я был тотально не прав. © =Lizard=
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In reply to =Lizard=
Offline kamukag3e
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#56
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I want to express huge respect to Kostya-Lizard for his posts (not sarcasm).
Alfein, and many others, have a lot to learn.
Konstantin, no offense, but I'll quote your posts:
- on one hand, you immediately pounce on SirDavos because he doesn't accept the comparison of HotA with Heroes 3 SoD, teasing him in every way and harshly imposing your own authoritative opinion, citing his allegedly failed comparisons as an example:
=Lizard=
2SirDavos: the example with Mozart and Mikhailov is simply disgustingly absurd. I'm telling you this as a musician. Meaning, at the same time, I understand both Heroes and music a billion times better and more.
Although about 5 years ago, while proving your own point, you used similar analogies yourself:
=Lizard=
It's like banning participation in international matches for a year in football for a tackle from behind, in addition to the red card.
- on the other hand, you immediately distance yourself from being counted among the true HotA players.
Question: why such aggression on your part when SirDavos expresses his personal opinion regarding SoD and HotA?
Next is sarcasm, a joke about a good accountant: a good accountant is not one who knows how to count correctly, but one who knows how to count as the situation requires and as the company management needs.
艰难获胜 herolwy
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Offline =Lizard=
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#57
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I was only trying to defend myself with arguments (or at least somehow). Because initially Sir Davos just kept saying the same phrase "HotA is a fake and a semblance of Heroes," without supporting it with any arguments, simply treating it as an axiom.

And over 5 years, you know, it's easy to change your opinion on one thing or another)) we are growing up after all, getting wiser (or the opposite)))))

p.s. I am an accountant with 10+ years of experience (besides music), so this is not a joke at all, I tell you, but the harsh truth of life)))
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In reply to Benis_xDD
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Offline Sanin
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#58
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A couple of years ago, I wrote my opinion on the matter, and it hasn't changed much since then.
Benis_xDD
And it’s precisely all these bans on redraw, restrictions on the Grail, bans on upgrades, bans on bypassing guards, visiting objects without clearing them, plus the resulting exploits and contentious situations... they really bother me aesthetically. I tried for a long time to get used to it, but I couldn't.

This really is a matter of habit. Before I started playing Heroes back in 2011 in a VK group, the first thing I did was study the rules. And those were WCL rules: no Necropolis and Conflux, no Air Magic control (I think), with a limit on external dwellings for tier 7 units, and so on. Later, I ended up on HeroesWorld, and again the first thing I did was study the rules. They were more complex and allowed more freedom of action. And I got used to them, and in most cases when they were amended, I was against it. But I also got used to most of those amendments, though there are exceptions. For example, even now I believe that Air Magic control on Panic and Balance maps should be allowed (it was banned in 2013) — especially now that we play with guild restructuring.
It's exactly the same matter of habit whether to play HotA or not. Some couldn't get used to the HeroesWorld rules, while others don't want to get used to the new graphics, new objects, new heroes, and creatures. And the new flight mechanics, of course.
Benis_xDD
Or remember our game on SMK where I flew over the Static Guards with wings, and we spent about 20 minutes trying to find a rule allowing or forbidding such actions. And by the way, we never found anything definitive. I choose not to play Heroes like that!

Well, it's strange to look for a rule that doesn't exist. There is a rule stating that everything not forbidden is allowed, and from there you just need to know what is forbidden to do everything else. It's another matter that the practical application of the rules doesn't always align with that reasoning. For example, the former CIS champion once couldn't find a rule about the Admiral's Hat — you know what happened next :rolleyes:
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Offline Grando
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#59
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Sanin
A couple of years ago, I wrote my opinion on this matter; since then, it hasn't changed much.
Since then, HotA has gained at least one very strong strategic advantage specifically designed for online play – the template editor.
However, this advantage needs time to materialize (and even more importantly, at least 2-3 skilled players who are interested in the topic and can contribute something).
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Offline Timbuktu
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#60
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In my opinion, everyone decided on a version long ago, and trying to lure someone over to another one is not just difficult, but absolutely unnecessary.
HotA is great; a mass of people seeking balance, esports, and god knows what else migrated there from SoD. And the SoD community has become much warmer—every opponent is a treat, and every game is an adventure) jokes aside.
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Offline Timbuktu
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#62
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Al Feyn
Don't be modest. You probably meant to say hot?
By the way, we are waiting for the admin's decision on this issue. The game has still not been completed.
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