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Offline saneok
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Posts: 716
#31
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give a full set of scrolls at the start, and that will solve the imbalance in gaining control:D
icq 699279927 discord saneok#0028


привет, можешь сменить подпись) 6лм - норм шабл, а джебус тупое говно. Я был тотально не прав. © =Lizard=
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Offline Dima Surmay
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Posts: 2,067
#32
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The guild redesign has already balanced things significantly, and that is enough.

It's also true that the use of 2 Dimension Doors could be banned or made much more difficult; for example, you could only cast 2 Dimension Doors if you have expert own all 4 elemental magics.
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Offline Freeman
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#33
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"Allow me to add my two cents," in essence, everything that has been implemented in HotA so far, in my opinion, is quite sufficient, except perhaps for the weakening of ranged damage dealers (DD). That is, making it quite problematic to obtain a second ranged damage dealer (not only experience from air units) and, for example, reducing the jump range across cells, while mana and movement can be left as they are; this is not crucial. Otherwise, I think nothing else needs to be changed.
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In reply to baratorch
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Offline Ben80
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Posts: 168
#34
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baratorch

Here's how I would address the problem within "SoD":
1. I would weaken Teleport (both mana cost and movement points can be increased, and/or maximum number of teleports can be limited).
Direct Damage can also be weakened by increasing its mana cost.
2. I would make Teleport and Direct Damage multi-school spells, like Haste.
Similarly, Slow could be handled this way, but it might look too awkward from a design perspective.

Once, like many Heroes players, I wanted to balance the Schools of Magic within my mod, but the more I worked on the mod, the more I liked the original SoD. Specifically regarding the Schools of Magic, there are strong arguments that the imbalance of the schools was intentionally designed by NWC from the beginning (1. Earth, 2. Air, 3. Water, Fire).

The second point does not address the raised issue in any way (it simply relates to a different topic - balancing the schools of magic); it might even exacerbate it.
I agree with the first point; in addition, Slow needs to be nerfed (using a simple scheme of 20%/40% instead of the current 25%/50%).

I see potential in the fact that the SoD community, at the level of tournament organizers/players, can independently filter and adopt what it needs, unlike the centralized system of HotA. At the same time, it can follow fashion cycles. For example, by using the Hwraulz plugin and guild restructuring, people playing SoD have, in a way, returned to WoG, but at a new technological level (features are implemented through a patcher, not through ERM). Thus, in the future, as can be assumed, the game options will essentially fluctuate between Heroes 3.2 and Heroes 3.5.

Specifically regarding the topic - of course, in a strict SoD, it is impossible to solve the problem radically. Perhaps it is worth more often resorting to fix maps, where the process of obtaining control can be controlled more rigidly/more fairly/more as one likes at the map creation level.

Therefore, I would like to ask baratorch to implement passwords for fix maps, as is done for random maps...
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In reply to baratorch
Offline Jelen117
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Posts: 605
#35
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baratorch
If we follow the CPT (Competitive Playtesting) guidelines,
2. we should add a few equally powerful units to the game. This option is obviously the best, and it's the one the HotA team is focusing on.
It's also clear that this option is quite complex to implement. And it's also
practically inapplicable for SoD (because when implemented, it's no longer SoD).

The problem with damage dealers in the current Heroes is the ability to capture the Mage Guild from an opponent. If you can do this, it's a very strong move. Especially in HotA, where capturing an opponent's city with a tower just once in a game is enough to make the guild completely useless, simply by agreeing to some nonsense on turn five. And the control issues in HotA are even greater because there are usually fewer treasure locations (there are sprites, guilds, towers, etc.). In Utopia, the chance of gaining control is slightly higher than in SoD (the Kesh and water units seem to have been removed), but this is a minor detail. Nevertheless, in SoD, there are sometimes battles for the guild after the opponent captures it (I remember Lucky-Dave's great game in the final of FB), but in HotA, this is completely pointless. So, I believe that HotA HL+U (High Level + Undead) is much more unbalanced than SoD HL+U, given the current trends in Heroes.
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Offline Grando
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Posts: 1,827
#36
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I think two relatively simple things will bring us much closer to solving the problem.

1. A fixed guild upgrade stage at which control is granted.
That is, neither earlier nor later, but due to the critical importance of these spells in the game — strictly at a specific moment. For example.
Town Portal. Required:
in SoD - construction + 3 upgrades
in HotA - as the seventh spell on level 4.
That is, in both cases, it requires investing exactly 4 times into level 4 (exception in HotA - Tower - 3 times plus library).
Fly.
Requires investing 2 times.
in SoD - construction + 1 (one) upgrade
in HotA - as the second spell on level 5.
Dimension Door.
Requires investing 4 times.
in SoD - construction + 3 upgrades
in HotA - as the fourth spell on level 5.

I immediately suggest noting that two things are described here. First — the idea itself.
And second — the decision on the number of upgrades, which I wrote based on what I currently consider correct.
And these two things are not the same. If anyone responds — please respond to both parts separately.

2. To cast any spell under any circumstances, a hero must have purchased the book and leveled up the corresponding wisdom level.
This is necessary to slow down the pace from books, scrolls, and heroes from prisons on Jebus Cross, for example.
In HotA, Town Portal should not be in level 4 shrines at all.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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Offline Wicc
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Posts: 5,099
#37
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Al Feyn
I think two relatively simple things will bring us much closer to solving the problem.

1. A fixed stage of guild rebuilding, at which control is granted.
That is, neither earlier nor later, but in connection with the critical importance of these spells in the game – at a strictly defined moment. For example.
Town Portal. Requires
in SoD – construction + 3 rebuilds
in HoMM – the seventh spell at level 4.
That is, in both cases, it requires exactly 4 investments in level 4 (the exception in HoMM is the Tower – 3 times plus the Library).
Fly.
Requires 2 investments.
in SoD – construction + 1 (one) rebuild
in HoMM – the second spell at level 5.
Dimension Door.
Requires 4 investments.
in SoD – construction + 3 rebuilds
in HoMM – the fourth spell at level 5.

I immediately suggest paying attention to the fact that two things are described here. The first is the idea itself.
And the second is the decision about the number of rebuilds, which I wrote down, and which I currently consider correct.
And these two things are not the same. If someone is going to respond, please respond to both parts separately.

2. In order to use any spell under any circumstances, the hero must have purchased the book and leveled up the corresponding Wisdom level.
This is necessary to slow down the pace of books, scrolls, and heroes from prisons on Jebus, for example.
In HoMM, Town Portal should not be in the shrines of level 4 at all.
1. Unrealistic.

2. Realistic.
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In reply to Dima Surmay
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Offline Aiwe
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Posts: 1,330
#38
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Dima Surmay
the guild redesign has already leveled things out significantly, and that is enough.

The 1st player gets the 1st Town Portal and Dimension Door, and the 2nd player gets the last one. Balance.

Making Dimension Door and Town Portal available in all schools is a great idea. And just remove Slow entirely from the 5th level :D That would be awesome.

In my opinion, anything in the game that is an absolute "no-brainer" is already not very good. If we could make an equivalent imba to Dimension Door and Town Portal (although I personally find it hard to imagine), it would be more interesting. It would also be great to give mages an equivalent imba in HotA :D

Otherwise, the idea of a strict acquisition of Dimension Door / Town Portal seems okay. And yes, 2 Dimension Doors could be limited somehow. Otherwise, some crappy level 5 Brissa flies across half the map. For example: a hero below level 15 cannot use 2 Dimension Doors. You can't cut Town Portal in any way; playing HL would become impossible.

In HotA, for instance, I think pre-built Town Portal/Dimension Door would look organic. Because the game during the 1st and 2nd weeks looks like resource gathering, while the Mage Guild often starts being built on the 1st week. After that, you choose—whether to build an army or a Mage Guild for offensive magic. Again, usage could be limited by the hero's level.
http://heroes3.tv/aiwe
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Offline Wicc
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Posts: 5,099
#40
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Al Feyn
Why?
Do you really think that such functionality could pass all levels of approval (developers/tournament organizers/players)?



It's like silicone breasts - well, they're big, but what's the point?
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Offline Grando
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Posts: 1,827
#41
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Understood. We'll see. Here, players mainly discuss things, but the other two categories also participate.
By the way, as I understand it, you expressed your opinion as a tournament organizer? So, I'll repeat the question – "why?" But now, answer specifically – why is it unrealistic for you as a tournament organizer? (and is it really?)
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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Offline Wicc
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#42
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Al Feyn
I understand. Well, let's see. Here, mostly players discuss things, but the other two categories also check in.
And you, as I understand it, expressed your opinion as the tournament organizer? So, I'll repeat the question - "why?" But now answer not as a great thinker who sees through the past and the future, but specifically - why is it unrealistic for you as a tournament organizer?
Because such functionality is very flawed. It's just not aesthetically pleasing to play. Even for those who are currently pushing this idea.
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Offline Wicc
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#43
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If you want to consider the mechanics of guaranteed control, you can look at options like "spell ordering." For example, for double the price and with a delayed effect (one or two days). This is more realistic.
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Offline =Lizard=
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Posts: 3,825
#44
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As Vitaly, also known as Gomunguls, already wrote, this will lead to a terrible economic imbalance, and whoever simply gets more resources will win every time, which is even worse than the current situation because collecting resources requires absolutely no skill.
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
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In reply to Aiwe
Offline Dima Surmay
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Posts: 2,067
#45
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Aiwe
The 1st player gets 1 Town Portal and Dimension Door, while the 2nd player gets the last one. Balance.

But why create a Balance? With such a balance in magic, the lag in tempo can no longer be caught up with, and knowing this, it will be very difficult to play.
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