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Posts from Suggestions for a SOD mod.Auto-translated
Ideas like the ones mentioned in the header won't appeal to players. There's the Rose Cavalier plugin for single-player, and multiplayer has its own features, such as the Guild of Mages overhaul. What else can be "improved," and, more importantly, for whom?
What does the Rose Cavalier plugin have to do with it? The goal of this plugin is not to change the gameplay. The Guild of Mages overhaul, in my opinion, is already too significant of a change. I didn't understand your post – you yourself mentioned earlier what you would like to change in the game. Regarding the ideas in the header – in my opinion, they are too radical. However, I agree with Kventin that opinions on this matter may vary. For me, "polishing" means one thing, and for him, it means another. For me, it's something like this: Mysticism on Expert +5 instead of +4, mana cost for the spells Hypnosis and Mines – 15 instead of 18. Several changes of this kind... And, unfortunately, I completely disagree with the desirability of changes for most players – the suggestions from players that I read on the forums only cause confusion (in a mild way)...
Rose's plugin, even in its latest version, unexpectedly includes changes that affect the original game mechanics. I generally agree with Marmot. If any more significant changes were to be made to the game, other than bug fixes, they should have been implemented many years ago. Players have become too accustomed to the current state of affairs, and even absurdities like the ability to cast a prayer on units from Necropolis, Dungeon, and Inferno are perceived as normal.
The Rose plugin, even in its latest version, unexpectedly includes changes that affect the original game mechanics. I generally agree with Marmot. If any more significant changes were to be made to the game, other than bug fixes, it should have been done many years ago. Players have become too accustomed to the current state of affairs, and even absurdities like the ability to cast Prayer on units from Necropolis, Dungeon, and Inferno are perceived as normal.
Yes, absurdity is now perceived as normal. For example, in Heroes 3 Tutorial, it states that Lava belongs to the type of terrain where movement is slowed. That sounds logical))). But then, in principle, it should also slow movement in the Dungeon. In general, I've given up on such things, as have other players. We've gotten used to it...
Ideas similar to those mentioned in the topic will not appeal to players. There is the Rose Cavalier plugin for single-player, and there are also unique features in multiplayer, such as the Guild of Mages overhaul. What else can be "improved" here, and, most importantly, for whom?
Of the changes mentioned in the topic, the following are currently relevant: a) moving resurrection to water magic b) moving explosion to fire magic c) expert-level blind sight with a range of 2 hexes And there are 3 more changes that will help balance the schools of magic.
Therefore, you believe that if it becomes possible to play entire games not only through land, but also through water, fire, or air... If there are competitive final combinations with different schools of magic, will this not increase the "interest" of the game?
Added 1 minute ago Ben80
What does the Rose Cavalier plugin have to do with it? The purpose of this plugin is not to change the gameplay. The Guild of Mages overhaul is, in my opinion, already too significant of a change. I didn't understand your post - you yourself mentioned above what you would like to change in the game. Regarding the ideas in the topic - in my opinion, they are too radical. However, I agree with Kventin that opinions on this matter may differ. For me, "polishing" is one thing, for him it's another. For me, this is approximately - Mysticism on Expert +5 instead of +4, mana cost for the spells Hypnosis and Mines - 15 instead of 18. Something like that... And, unfortunately, I completely disagree with the desirability of changes for most players - the suggestions from players that I read on the forums only cause bewilderment (in a mild form)...
Regarding "polishing". If only cosmetic changes are made, then it will definitely not be needed by anyone - why download or install something if, in essence, it will be the same. Changes must still be significant, but at the same time targeted and well-thought-out; we must not allow it to turn into a "WoG-like" mess. For example, regarding Mysticism, as you can see, I initially wanted to strengthen it, but now I think that it is better not to touch it at all. Because, in order for it to really be strong, it is necessary to give a large amount of mana, and this is crude, and in the end it is not clear what plus we will get in the gameplay. That is, in my opinion, if a change does not increase the variability of the gameplay, then it is better not to make it at all. Now, regarding skills, I would make only 3 changes.
Regarding the desirability for most players. The goal is to make the changes that are made liked by the players, and they play with them. But in no case should we collect wishes from the forum in order to see what it turns into; it is enough to look at the thread with suggestions for WoG.
Added 37 seconds ago Marlo_Stanfield
The Rose plugin is relevant because, in the latest version, there are suddenly changes that affect the original game mechanics. In general, I tend to agree with Marmot. If any more significant changes are to be made to the game than just fixing bugs, then this should have been done many years ago. Players have become too accustomed to the existing state of affairs, and even absurd things, such as the ability to cast Prayer on units from Necropolis, Dungeon, and Inferno, are perceived as the norm.
If we remove WoG and the defunct HotA, then in recent years, there have essentially been no attempts to create something worthwhile for the network game. And I think this is the main reason, and not the players.
I can't say anything definitive about multiplayer, as it doesn't interest me. For single-player, the first two options (resurrection in water and explosion in fire) are somewhat imaginable, but there isn't much point to them. On good maps, water magic is already a must-have, and moving the explosion to fire won't significantly increase the value of this school of magic; it already has Armageddon. The suggestion about blindness is very strange. Strengthening one of the most overpowered spells in the game (perhaps only surpassed by slow and berserk) is clearly not the best way to improve fire magic.
If you only make cosmetic changes, then no one will need it – why download or install anything if it’s essentially the same thing.
It’s an interesting question. You can criticize any position – both Heroes 3.5 (WoG, HotA) and the original Heroes 3, and even cosmetic changes (let’s call it Heroes 3.3). Indeed, it’s all a matter of taste, a personal matter for each player. Personally, I would like to play Heroes 3.3. Yes, +5 mana is not much, but it’s still slightly less disappointing than +4 )))
Kventin
Changes should be significant, but also targeted and well-thought-out; we must not allow it to turn into “WoG-ism.”
WoG-ism is, of course, WoG-ism, but in general, I think WoG is a great thing, one of the possible approaches to Heroes 3.5, a feast for the soul, so to speak :). And another possible approach to Heroes 3.5 is HotA. In fact, I’m not against Heroes 3.5; we just need to be honest about it – it’s Heroes 3.5, not Heroes 3.
Why not play Heroes 3.5 if we make it more interesting than the original Heroes 3? We can play it. But it’s also important to have a large community of people who will play these Heroes 3.5, and to achieve this, we need to create something remarkable (some highlights). Both WoG and HotA have managed to do this. WoG – the wealth of possibilities from ERM, the “feeling of wonder around the corner,” as I read from some WoG player, and HotA – bug fixes, the beauty of new graphical elements.
I believe this post is the key one in this thread.
Kventin
Over 1.5 years, I have rethought many things, and much of what was proposed is no longer relevant – for example, a separate school of magic, or moving the prayer spell. And my vision of the skills is completely different now. However, blindness affecting two hexes seems like an interesting solution at the expert level.
In other words, the person had a lot of ideas, but then he rethought everything and it turned out to be uninteresting. In order to introduce any changes to the game, there must be extremely compelling reasons, and I can hardly come up with an adequate example. As was rightly said here, any changes will always have dissatisfied people. And what can we say when even recently a heated discussion arose about what the Naga jars should actually give, and what the author proposes would be even more explosive.
If we talk specifically, then with the movement of spells between schools, one can still find some arguments, but blindness affecting two hexes is a clear disgrace. Why only two hexes? Maybe make the same area as the Berserker? Or maybe even mass blindness? No offense, but how can one not understand the power of a spell and suggest SOMETHING like that? :confused:Ben80
And, unfortunately, I completely disagree with the desirability of changes for most players – the suggestions from players that I read on the forums only cause bewilderment (in a mild form)...
That's what I'm talking about. What one person considers essential, seems like complete nonsense to another.
I consider this to be the key post of this thread. I.e., the person had a bunch of ideas, and then he reconsidered everything and it turned out to be uninteresting after all.
And what's so surprising about that? At the time the thread was created, I had six months of "experience" in Heroes, and now it's been two years. Naturally, my understanding of the game has grown during that time.
to introduce any changes into the game, there would need to be such drastic reasons that it's hard for me to even come up with an adequate example. People here have already correctly written that with any changes, there will always be those who are dissatisfied. Not to mention, there was a recent debate about what Naga Banks should actually give, and what the author is proposing would just blow everything up.
Here it's a matter of positioning; there's no desire to just create something to replace "SoD" — it was, is, and will be. There is a desire to make a "Fresh Mod," where visually everything is the same, but tactically and strategically, there is a lot that is new. Got tired of playing SoD, played a few games with "Fresh." Diversity and the ability to choose are good things. For many online SoD players, there are essentially no other options right now, other than playing single-player mods.
Speaking specifically, one could still find some arguments for moving spells between schools, but Blindness on two hexes is a clear overkill. Why only two hexes? Maybe make it the same area as Berserk? Or maybe Mass Blindness? No offense, but you'd have to really not understand the power of a spell to suggest THAT? :confused:
Now, that's more or less substantive criticism. I'll explain everything now. So, why does Blindness need to be strengthened. The main goal of the magic rebalance is to make the schools competitive. An excellent case where this is tested is breaking through ГО on Jebus Cross. Right now, breaking through it with anything other than "Earth" is painful. Accordingly, the task is — we need to be able to break through ГО comfortably with expert Fire magic. How can this be done with minimal changes and complications? Expert Blindness on 2 horizontal hexes is exactly what will allow this. On average, with 2 castings of Blindness (16 mana), many ГОs can be broken through. At the same time, in the final stage this won't be imbalanced (unlike the original proposal) because it is countered by positioning.
Author, I don't quite understand the ultimate goal of the discussion in this thread. Are you collecting feedback and then planning to create a mod, or is this just a discussion for the sake of discussion?
Author, I don't quite understand the ultimate goal of the discussion in this thread. Are you gathering feedback and then planning to create a mod, or is this just a "let's talk" kind of thing?
The goal is to find people who could help with the implementation. Feedback should be collected after the implementation is complete.
What's so surprising about that? When this topic was started, I had been playing for six months, and now it's been two years. During that time, my understanding of the game has naturally increased.
What's surprising is that after playing for six months, there was a desire to change something in the game. When I started playing, I didn't even have that thought; I just wanted to try to play better with what was already there. The same goes for other games. Of course, it's a personal matter for everyone; everyone decides what they want to play. If you want to create a module just for yourself, go ahead; HD-mod allows it (for now) :rolleyes:
Author, I don't quite understand the ultimate goal of the discussion in this thread. Are you gathering feedback and then going to create a mod, or is it just for the sake of talking?
As far as I understand, the number of people here has significantly decreased in recent years, so just talking isn't a crime...
Added 2 minutes later Dirty_Player
If you want to create a module just for yourself, go ahead, HD mod allows it (for now) :rolleyes:
If it won't allow it in the future, older versions of the HD mod will be used, or Era, which has a patcher, just like the HD mod.
Ben80, the discussion about being unable to see two hexes reminds me of something along the lines of "Who's cooler: Titans or Black Dragons?", which, of course, isn't a crime. It's just that the conversation wasn't about anything specific to begin with.
Ben80
