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Posts from The world of Might and Magic – the world of NWC – is now dead in Heroes 5.
I started this thread on the official Nival forum:
Why is it right that there won't be any more old Heroes games? When they were making part 4, there was also a big shift and they moved to a new continent. But wasn't that reasonable? So now everything will repeat itself; what will the developers say about the old world? They need to say something about what happened to the old world. You can't just suddenly wake up on another planet out of nowhere.
If you remember John Van Caneghem's idea, all worlds are just different planet-colonies. So now every new developer will start their journey by destroying the old world. By the time we get to the 9th game, there will be a couple more destroyed planets, and people will have forgotten the main idea – where it all began. The game will lose its plot and transition from a global universe to increasingly local problems. Maybe that's good, but it would be better to depict this in some separate game with the Might And Magic brand, while I'd like Heroes to remain Heroes.
P.S. When the first Heroes came out, that was also not a very well-thought-out step by the developers, probably based on marketing principles, but in subsequent parts they corrected themselves, and then there was another crisis.
P.P.S. Don't make fans forget "where the world came from"...
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The era of NWC Heroes is over, and John Van Caneghem is no longer with us.
Well, if that's the case, then it's a completely different game. Then the game should already have a new name since everything is new - why use the old brand? And then it won't be HofMM 5 at all - it will just be "A turn-based strategy game based on the HofMM series." Specifically, "Turn-based strategy" because, according to these words, the story is dead.
Romson, you said something terrible to me... Now I don't even know how to perceive this game...
Romson, can you provide any official information about the lack of connection to the NWC world? [If you can, please do; I really want to read it.]
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And so that people don't forget, they'll take it and replay 1-4. The world is new, and the heroes must be new; why repeat themselves?
I'm not talking about Heroes as such right now, but about the NWC world, which Romson correctly understood. The NWC world is a global concept that gives an idea of the organization of the universe in the Heroes games.
If you want, read this story – /topic/16/. For example, I wouldn't want to ruin it.
Let there be a new world; I already agree with that. But why destroy everything else? We shouldn't forget about that.
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Read the materials on the official website or Larisa/Dmitry's answers in the "Questions for the developer" thread - it all says it there.
Thank you, CruelDwarf - I will definitely read it.
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P.S. As for the plot, both in HoM&M and M&M, it doesn't play a special role. In both games, the essence lies in something completely different.
I have to disagree because the plot always plays a huge role. Only a Gamer (someone who devours every new game and completes it in a couple of days, then moves on to a new one) can play a game without a plot. A fan of any game is necessarily interested in the plot, backstory, and everything related to it.
From CruelDwarf.
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Originally Posted by MasterPainKiller
I have to disagree because the plot always plays a huge role. Only a Gamer (someone who devours every new game and completes it in a couple of days, then moves on to a new one) can play a game without a plot. A fan of any game is necessarily interested in the plot, backstory, and everything related to it.
Hmm... not everyone; many Heroes fans don't even play through the campaigns, let alone study the plot in detail. And there are quite a few meme-makers among them too.
And the connection between the worlds of different parts interests only fans of the M&M WORLD, not the game. I myself am not among the first (I don't like the world at all), but I am among the second (I like the games in the series).
So it's not that simple.
This is the main discussion in that thread.
But what struck me most was Larisa's statement, which I found while reading "Questions for the Developer":
A. Larisa:
The HoMMV universe was created by Ubisoft, who want to create a single world for future Might and Magic games (which, in my opinion, is great). And here I ask you not to forget that this world is completely different. One is our, human, so to speak, mythology (or still religion?). The worship of dragons by the peoples of HoMMV is a unique feature of this world. Imagine that you have ended up on another planet where people believe that the world was created by the Great Hanger, on which everything now hangs. And everyone worships the Great Hanger and its descendants - ordinary hangers. Complete nonsense, I agree. But this silly example is just meant to convey the idea – be open to everything...
What kind of plot or foundation can there be, and what is this new world when even those involved in its creation say:
Complete nonsense, I agree.
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In general, the Might And Magic universe has come to an end on the grave of NWC. Heroes Of Might And Magic 5 is already a completely different game.
Share your thoughts on this, dear fans...
Katrine
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That's where I started my journey on the Nival forum:D. You can search for the topic "Let's praise them! Or the opposite." there. All I heard in response was: "Van Caneghem refused. Without him, we can't do anything." A funny argument. Considering that here is the most complete history of the Might and Magic world. Moreover, I was stunned by the Nival developers' statement that the unified Might and Magic world was originally Ubisoft's idea. But it has always been that way! Unfortunately, most on the Nival forum said that the plot in the game is not the main thing:eek:. And moreover, CruelDwarf, whom you quoted, said that he played all the Might and Magic games but didn't know that it was a unified world:eek:. How is that possible:confused:? Personally, I have always been interested in the intricacies of the plot. And I was incredibly excited when I met Nikolai Ironfist in M&M 9!!!! There it is, the plot connection:D. As for Nival's new world, it only makes me smile. We know the history of the dragons' appearance in the Might and Magic world (thank you, Lord of the Air). This is a very disrespectful attitude towards fans. To impose a different philosophy, a different mythology on fans is not beautiful, *censored*. In other words, I cannot call Nival's creation Heroes of Might and Magic V. It is something else in a familiar setting.
"We will build a new world..." We've seen this somewhere before.
- Доктор, меня все игнорируют!!! :mad: - Следующий!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Dion
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2 MasterPainKiller
In general, the Might and Magic universe met its end at the grave of NWC.
5 points! :lol:
2 Katrine On the Nival website, they told you not that "the plot is not the main thing," but that "it's good that the world and the plot will be more serious." There were other arguments, but this was the main one.
On the Nival website, they told you not that "the plot is not the main thing," but that "it's good that the world and the plot will be more serious." There were other arguments, but this was the main one.
No, they told me exactly that. But not you specifically. I have nothing against the new world. Let the gods in it be dragons. Let there be no old heroes there. But let this new world live according to the laws of John Van Caneghem. The only thing Nival should have done was to preserve the Might and Magic universe. This means that dragons should have been created by the Lord of the Air. And Inferno should have been the Krigans. The game is called not Heroes of Might and Magic New Age, but Heroes of Might and Magic V. Since there is a 5, you need to play according to the laws of the genre, and not come up with your own ideology. What would it be like if, in the 3rd episode of Star Wars, Lucas had deviated from the Jedi and made a movie about terminators:eek: This is what Nival did with the heroes. It is not so difficult to fix the plot, if there was a desire. Someone doesn't have it.
I agree with Katrine. Either a new world or the Might and Magic universe – a world of heroes. Otherwise, it's starting to feel like some kind of conspiracy theory – that everything was a lie before, but now we'll tell the truth: "First there were Dragons..."
- Доктор, меня все игнорируют!!! :mad: - Следующий!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Dion
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Gentlemen, let's differentiate the concepts. The game is being made based on the gameplay of Heroes. With significant changes to the gameplay, but the foundation is largely preserved. Based on this, the game has the title Heroes of Might and Magic.
Attempts to connect the dragon gods with the great egg (or whatever it is in the cosmogony of parts 1-4?), demons with Krigans, etc., would result in a terrible mishmash that neither you nor I, nor anyone else, would want to eat – fans would be disgusted by the taste, and newcomers wouldn't understand the convoluted plot.
Furthermore, there is copyright. There is a series name. Making a game "Might & Magic: Heroes 6" or making a game "something-there 1" are two very different things.
Gentlemen, let's differentiate the concepts. The game is being made based on the gameplay of Heroes. With significant changes to the gameplay, but the foundation is largely preserved. Based on this, the game has the title Heroes of Might and Magic.
What's wrong with the title Heroes of Might and Magic New Age? There are no illusions. A completely new world with all the consequences. And Heroes of Might and Magic V is a continuation (including the storyline) of the Might and Magic series. If, for example, Blizzard releases Diablo III but without Diablo, Mephisto, and Baal, would you also call it "a game based on the gameplay"? You are the one differentiating the concepts. Heroes 1-... These are the heroes of Van Caningham. Heroes Something-or-other - go ahead. No one will say anything bad about it. But as it is, everyone is waiting for a continuation of the story, but there isn't one. See White Hawk's post.
Furthermore, there is copyright. There is the name of the series. Making a game "Heroes 6" or making a game "Something-or-other 1" are two very different things.
And no one is saying to make "Something-or-other 1," they are saying to make Heroes, either with the old storyline or remove the number 5 and change it to something else. And to use terms from Caningham's world in the New Universe, such as Griphoheart and the monarch's name Nikolai (Ironfist):eek: This is *censored*. I initially bought into it, and then I found out what it really was:mad:
If you play a game only for the story, I feel sorry for you. For me, gameplay is what matters most in a game. To be more precise, the story is important in RPGs – it's the foundation there, but in strategy games (whether real-time or turn-based), it's just a backdrop – nothing more. The fact that you "fell for" something just shows that you didn't read the information carefully. The announcement that the game's action would take place in a different world was made even before E3. You can't release "Diablo 3" without Diablo simply because the game has that name. If the new installment doesn't feature Baal and Mephisto (as if they never existed), but has exciting gameplay and great visuals, 90% of people won't care and will be right to do so.
Besides, it's better to create a new world honestly than to come up with a stupid cataclysm like in the fourth game. You simply can't imagine a more degenerate justification for changing the gameplay – it's the pinnacle of absurdity. Therefore, instead of coming up with nonsense (something like "after the cataclysm in the world of the third game, half of the people teleported to the world of the fourth game, and the other half to the world of the fifth..."), Ubisoft and Nival are creating a new, internally consistent world.
Mr. Van Caneghem has withdrawn from the game. He was offered a position – he declined. That's it. The Heroes series will continue to develop without him.
In the game, what matters to me is the gameplay and everything else.
That is, if they remove all creatures, all Castles, and so on, and hero attributes, but make amazing gameplay, you will still play such a Heroes game. I feel sorry for you.Dion
If the new installment doesn't have Baal and Mephisto (as if they never existed)
But they were always there. Perhaps not tangibly, but always in the plot.Dion
but there will be amazing gameplay and a great cartoon, 90% of people will not pay attention to this and will be right.
Fortunately, not all companies share this opinion. And that inspires optimism.Dion
Comrade Van Caneghem has stepped away from the game. He was offered a position - he rejected it. That's it. The Heroes series is now developing without him.
After that, the series reached a dead end. The world is over. The world of Heroes no longer exists. The circus has left, and the clowns have scattered. Only the scenery remains.
We know the history of how dragons appeared in the world of Might and Magic (Thanks to the Lord of Air).
Well, actually, you should say "thanks" to the Lord of Water (Aqualandar) ;)... Dion
On the Nivalis website, they didn't tell you "the plot isn't the main thing," but rather "it is good that the world and plot will be more serious." There were other arguments, but this one is the main one.
What do you mean by a "more serious" world and plot? Read the history of the M&M world via Katrine's link — was that an unserious and ill-conceived world in your opinion? Well yeah, sure, it's easier to build from scratch than to continue a world with already established laws — that way any illogicality or stupidity is easier to justify... But then what is Nivalis's achievement? Is this really what the series fans were waiting for?
Меня всегда преследуют умные мысли, но я все равно быстрее :D
Actually, we should thank Lord Water (Aqualandar).
Of course. What made me think that Aqualandar was the Lord of Air?:confused: "The first dragon, after the inglorious defeat of the elemental Lords, was created by Aqualandar to destroy Calon."
So, what exactly is Nival's merit here? :):):) They ruined the entire plot and still expect applause:)
It might work as a strategy game, but if the plot isn't coherent, it can't be called Heroes of Might and Magic 5.
I would agree with the idea of setting the action on a new, remote planet discovered far in space, where different laws apply. Adding a story about the Ancients would be great. The world of Kanehelm offers such possibilities since the universe is limitless, so why abandon it?
Yeah, the world of Caningham is truly boundless... but the question now is this... I wonder how Ubisoft will reconcile their two games – Heroes and Dark Messiah? The idea is that they take place in the same world – Ashan or whatever it’s called – but there are already a lot of logical inconsistencies (for example, there are no orcs in Heroes, but there are in Dark Messiah), and IMHO, there will be even more (after all, the developers are different)... So, not only have they ruined the old world, but they’ve also created two parallel ones to completely confuse the fans...:mad:
Меня всегда преследуют умные мысли, но я все равно быстрее :D
White Hawk
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Nothing! Now Nival has time to sort out these inconsistencies as well!
I hope they have enough sense!
- Доктор, меня все игнорируют!!! :mad: - Следующий!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
