Changes to the rules starting with the letter G (Graal and Galtran). — Tournament History

In reply to Dirty_Player

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Registered: 8/25/2011 9:55 AM UTC

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5/10/2018 4:32 PM UTC #16

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Dirty_Player

If we assume that any imbalance can be balanced through trading, then no starting balance is needed at all, and neither are any rules.

Well, don't exaggerate:) not every imbalance, but some things can be balanced. And I'm only saying that trading can help. In terms of starting balance, trading is a great thing, much better than a fixed amount (and, of course, better than randomness).

http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt

In reply to sir Davos Seaworth

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Registered: 11/7/2009 5:02 PM UTC

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5/10/2018 4:33 PM UTC #17

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sir Davos Seaworth

With the Grail, limit construction to week 3 (digging can start as early as day 1)

+ forbid digging on miniNost entirely. Possibly also on Jebus Cross, but it's rarely placed there anyway, and there's no time for it either

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Registered: 8/30/2010 4:53 PM UTC

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5/10/2018 4:40 PM UTC #18

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1. For the resolution of the Grail without specifics (as it currently stands). I do not consider it a serious imba; the time spent on obelisks and digging is a sufficient price. Plus, you need Conflux or at least Tower anyway. And in general, the fewer bans, the better.
2. For banning Galthran as a starting hero on Jebus Cross. What makes Jebus Cross special? If it's banned on others, then it should be banned here as well. Necro will still be better than Tower anyway. And he might even appear in the tavern. Let them deal with it.

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Весна 2014.

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Registered: 12/23/2011 8:08 AM UTC

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5/10/2018 4:40 PM UTC #19

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Restricting Galtran is nonsense, it's just an out-of-game balance change, he'll simply change and that's it, Castle on Jebus Cross even in SOD I would place on roughly one branch, now also forbid upgrading to Archangels? I am generally for the possibility of choosing heroes and for Conflux! if you want to change the balance so badly. Regarding the Grail, I really like the reasoning of the dads who say "you can't do it, so you're mad", but what if I can, what if in the previous series I dug up more Grails than Admiral, but at the biggest LAN without restarts the Grail ended up with Admiral, for the second game in a row... digging from slot 1 and 5 (in both games it was a loss-ready with 90% probability without it), maybe you should still use your brains? Call it luck or something else, but this is an imba that actually needs protection, the impossibility of placing the Grail in Tower, Necropolis, and Conflux would be perfect.
p.s. If you like watching Grail digging - watch Anarchy or play it, whatever you like

In reply to Juristis

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Registered: 4/29/2007 10:30 AM UTC

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5/10/2018 4:44 PM UTC #20

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Juristis

2. For banning Galtran on Jebus Cross as a starting hero. What makes Jebus Cross special? If it is banned on others, then it should be banned here as well.

In general, this quote fully reflects my position. But not everyone shares it.

In reply to Dirty_Player

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Registered: 5/23/2017 6:25 PM UTC

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5/10/2018 4:53 PM UTC #21

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The idea of a Lizard with 1 stack of skeletons, zombies, and weak units on the Goshan map doesn't seem bad, but is it feasible? Regarding the Grail, in my opinion, the SNG final showed that the Grail balanced out Dave's worse situation. The fact that he didn't take advantage of it is his problem. In the final, he dug himself out of a hopeless situation against the favorites from FTS and did the right thing. I don't think we should remove the Grail; maybe there's a way to balance its effect?

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Registered: 2/11/2009 6:12 AM UTC

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5/10/2018 5:00 PM UTC #22

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Already the second CIS we have been discussing the grail abuse for hours. I believe that specifically on mini-nost, it is dug up in half the games, causing an imbalance in the dynamics of this template. Conclusion - it needs to be fixed.

Regarding Galtran - 10k rollbacks in 2k18 on Jebus is trash

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Registered: 4/15/2014 2:29 PM UTC

Posts: 247

5/10/2018 5:02 PM UTC #23

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I'd like to ask Baratorch how realistic it is to change the way the Grail works in Conflux in SoD to how it works in HotA? I think it would be a really viable scheme, and in Tower... well, let them build it; I think digging and spending money on heroes for a week, maybe more (16/18, hi Proger Kappa) is a worthy price for a cartographer.
I consider banning Goshan pointless, since there's Tant who performs excellently on Jebus Cross too, breaking leftovers with a snap of his fingers. And Gosha is just a version for a simpler game, like an SMOrc that goes and stomps everything it sees.

In reply to Mercurial-

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Registered: 4/29/2007 10:30 AM UTC

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5/10/2018 5:07 PM UTC #24

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Mercurial-

Lizard's idea with 1 stack of bone dragons, zombies and liches on Goshan looks not bad, but is it feasible?

Naturally, no one will ever actually do that. During the discussion, I ask not to stray too far into the realm of fantasy, but rather to reason based on changes using SoD means, i.e., rules and limitations.

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MinasMorgul

I would like to know from Baratorch how realistic it is to change the Grail's behavior in Conflux in SoD to be like in HotA?

Same thing...

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But still, how will it be? :confused:

Dark

removing Galthran on Jebus Cross will make Necropolis Castle unrealistically devalued

MinasMorgul

I think banning Goshan is pointless, because there is Tantu who also performs excellently on Jebus Cross, breaking leftovers with a snap of his fingers.

In reply to Dirty_Player

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Registered: 4/15/2014 2:29 PM UTC

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5/10/2018 5:07 PM UTC #25

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Dirty_Player

Of course, no one will ever do that. When discussing, please don't stray too far into the world of fantasy, but reason based on the changes possible with SOD, i.e., the rules and limitations.

Added 1 minute ago

The same applies...

Well, then the proposal is simple: allow the Grail on XL+U, and on the others, after the second month.

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Registered: 11/27/2007 1:22 PM UTC

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5/10/2018 5:15 PM UTC #26

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I suggest allowing Flaks to choose a hero on Jebb. What makes the Necromancer so special?

In reply to Wicc

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Registered: 4/15/2014 2:29 PM UTC

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5/10/2018 5:26 PM UTC #27

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Wicc

I suggest allowing Flaks to choose a hero on Jebb. What makes the Necromancer so special?

There is no letter "G" in the word "Flaks".

In reply to MinasMorgul

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Registered: 9/30/2008 1:42 PM UTC

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5/10/2018 5:34 PM UTC #28

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Grail banned. Two adequate options in my opinion: either play by default with the checkbox that disables obelisks, or ban placing it in Conflux and Tower at the software level (HW-rules). Regarding Galtran on Jebus Cross — I'll abstain. Also, if Galtran stays on JC, IMO it's logical to give Conflux a choice of starting hero.

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In reply to twaryna

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Registered: 1/17/2010 8:34 PM UTC

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5/10/2018 5:52 PM UTC #29

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Regarding Galtran on Jebus - it doesn’t matter, since it would be better to just ban the gay Jebus Cross itself...
The flux on Jebus Cross is just laughable — they introduced bidding after all. Let them pay 10k for the Moon and lose it thanks to freaking morale...

Regarding the Grail — in that very same CIS final, Reddy took a huge risk by digging: 3-4 heroes were essentially doing nothing, which allowed DaveHan to approach the final fight with killer stats. And let the rotten banana peels fly at me — but it was the resistance that decided the final fight. Without that resistance, Dave would have pulled off the final fight precisely due to stat advantage and greater magical damage.

But the fact that the Grail bonus in Stronghold and Tower is too imbalanced is undeniable. It needs fixing. The trivial solution — don’t place the Grail in these two towns — and the imbalance immediately takes a back seat. Let them dig. Let them waste turns.

And there’s another point. As far as I understand (Baratorchu knows this better) — it’s not that hard on a programming level to simply remove all Grail bonuses except gold and creature growth. Or replace the imbalance from Tower, Stronghold, and the relative imbalance of Necropolis — with something less frustrating.

Нам это идеально подойдёт! (с)

"Совесть - она либо есть, либо её нет" (с) RedWhait HP