Posts from The mythology of creatures in Heroes (Goblins and Co.).

I don't know about you, but I like the Warcraft orcs, and the elves and dwarves of Tolkien. You should read Tolkien's "The Hobbit"... especially the last battle... the battle at the Lonely Mountain. I used to read it at night with a flashlight under the covers, it was so interesting.

The point is that the purpose of this topic is not which variation of a creature you like, but that the developers didn't pay attention to mythology, but only to literary works. It's just interesting, where did Ursula K. Le Guin get so much information about drow? Did she see them? Why is she so sure that they live like that? Why do they always make dark elves, not based on myths, but on books? Why are Tolkien's elves so different? Why does everyone believe that what is written there is true? Of course, everyone is free to write their own stories as they like, but still, the template already exists, and all innovations will be met with hostility.

The point is that the purpose of the topic is not which variation of a creature you like, but that the developers did not pay attention to mythology, but only to works of fiction. It's just interesting, where did Ursula K. Le Guin get so much information about drow? Did she see them? Why is she so sure that they live like that? Why do everyone make dark elves, not as they are in myths, but as they are in books? Why are Tolkien's elves completely different? Why does everyone believe that what is written there is true? Of course, everyone is free to write in their stories as they like, but still, the template has already been created, and all innovations will be met with hostility.

And have you seen elves? You probably know so much about them that you could write an encyclopedia: "Elves and Me" (no offense).

Why are Tolkien's elves completely different? Why does everyone believe that what is written there is true?

What does "true" mean? I repeat that the heroes are a fairy tale, and what the Nival developers came up with is their nonsense.

I figured out how gremlins came about:D. Since gremlins were left with a mixture of beer and machine oil (for example, near an airplane engine), someone naturally took it. I'll tell you how it happened.:) And in the morning, some pilot, after a terrible hangover, decided to cure it with beer - it didn't matter that it was in a can from canned food and smelled a bit strange:) - he didn't care because of the hangover.:o And when he drank this "beer," he turned into who do you think...:confused: - that's right, a Gremlin:D. That's how gremlins appeared in real life, and only then were they transferred to legends and myths. And they were evil because they were always hungover, and after drinking that kind of beer, you wouldn't be in a good mood:D. And various engines broke down because these "Gremlins" sold parts of these engines for scrap metal to buy more beer:) But this is just my version of how gremlins appeared.:D

Added 13 minutes ago
By the way, Magnus Everything is well written about the Titans in Greek mythology. Well done for telling us. You are educating the masses, so to speak:) Thank you very much for that. But there doesn't seem to be anything about the Giants (predecessors of the Titans) in Greek mythology, as far as I remember. Or am I just not familiar enough with Greek mythology?:confused: There is an obvious inconsistency in Heroes 3, where Giants are associated with Titans. After all, in Heroes 3, Giants are the predecessors of Titans in the Academy Castle. This means that Giants must be somehow (even indirectly) connected to Titans! So far, I don't see such a mythological connection. Does anyone else see it? And if they are connected, can you tell me how? If anyone knows, please answer. I would be grateful. And I will also try to find the answer myself.

Added 14 minutes ago
Yes, in principle, I agree with you, NID, that all fantasy is a fairy tale. And in a fairy tale, there can't be "truth." And if someone doesn't like Tolkien's Elves, they can come up with their own.:) Maybe they can even do it better.:), although it's unlikely, but anything is possible. After all, Tolkien, I think, didn't create his Elves "from scratch." He still used the work of others on this topic - legends, myths, tales, etc. - to create his Elves. So all fantasy is a big world that can be endlessly developed and something new can be added to it, which is what numerous writers of this genre do. And many do it well, and some, of course, do it worse.

I think that in mythology, there are several interpretations of elves, orcs, zombies, and so on. This includes both classic mythologies and classic fantasy works like Tolkien and Le Guin. The difficulty lies in ensuring that when creating a new system, everything is consistent with a good style and does not contradict established images. If you were to portray orcs as small creatures living in forests and shooting bows, it would cause rejection. If you were to make orcs as boar-men, it would probably also be met with resistance, but if you were to make them as green people and skilled warriors, that would be perfect because that's how they have become ingrained in people's minds. In my opinion, Heroes 3 is a stylistically almost perfectly executed game, despite some shortcomings, such as genies in the snow. However, Heroes 5 is made in a nonsensical way in this regard, with gargoyles that look like small tables, peasants who look like they haven't slept for a week, instead of mages, there are some kind of eastern caliphs, headless genies, titans with the gaze of people with Down syndrome, and so on. This not only doesn't fit with the design but also just looks very stupid.

Here, Nival Interactive didn't necessarily need to draw on existing myths. They created a new game with a completely new world, which, of course, has the right to its own mythology. I'll reiterate what has already been said: there's no point in arguing about mythology because nothing in this area has been proven by anyone. For example, you could ask why you believe that the Titans in Greek mythology are accurate, but not in Heroes of Might and Magic? This cannot be proven in any way. And that's because no one has seen them. Perhaps Nival didn't reference any mythological creatures in the game? Maybe they just gave them names, but in reality, they invented them themselves, and everything else is just a coincidence? However, it should be said that if the developers were indeed trying to use mythological characters, they didn't succeed in making them all accurate (in terms of authenticity and resemblance to how they appear in myths). For example, as already mentioned, demons should be different. I also think that the image isn't the most standard. However, I really like how they are drawn. P.S. - beer with machine oil is probably a harsh combination

Well, it doesn't really matter whether you draw from existing mythology or create your own, but if you do create your own, please make sure that all the creatures are logical and have a good design. Heroes 5 lacks both of these qualities.
And regarding the claim that no one has seen them: just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but there are paintings, books, and other evidence that show what a mythological creature looks like, one way or another.

Well, it doesn't really matter whether you draw from existing mythology or create your own, but if you do create your own, please make sure that all the creatures are logical and look good in terms of design. Heroes 5 lacks both.
And regarding the fact that no one has seen them: not seeing something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but there are paintings, books, and other evidence of what these mythological creatures look like.

In my opinion, they look quite normal. At least, some creatures may not fit into the game as well as I would like, but none of them make a repulsive impression.
Yes, there are books and pictures. But you can ask: why do you assume that everything in these books is accurate? Maybe it's accurate in another source? And since this is an area of science without proof, you can only rely on the fact of which beliefs appeared earlier, and even that is not a solid argument. Although I myself love mythology, especially Greek mythology, and I also think that the creatures are not made correctly in relation to mythology, I don't think it's worth criticizing the developers for this - they created their own mythology, which I think is very commendable.

I don't have anything against their mythology! I'm just saying that they made a terrible design, but that's just my opinion, although not only mine.

You're right about accuracy, but for the most part, if a minotaur is a human with a bull's head, then it has a bull's head everywhere; if it's a centaur, then it's a human with a horse's torso; if it's a vampire, then it's an undead creature that drinks blood.

Yes, of course, that's exactly how it is, but they didn't break any hard and fast rules. All the well-known creatures look and are exactly as you described, meaning they adhere to these rules. The others could very well be creatures invented by the developers.

Yes, that's right, and mythology is an even more vague science than history...

That’s exactly what I was saying; we understand each other.

Mythology is mythology, and Heroes is Heroes! In Heroes, a lot has been changed, and it has its own story. So, in my opinion, there isn't much mythology in Heroes!

Some myths are based on real facts from the past. For example, the trolls in the artwork resemble giant koalas or sloths! And gremlins are probably creatures from the astral plane that were against warriors or secret developments of the Third Reich! Who knows!

Have you seen elves? You probably know so much about them that you could write an encyclopedia: "Elves and Me" (no offense).


What does "truth" mean? I repeat that heroes are a fairy tale, and what the Nival developers came up with is just their fantasy.

You didn't understand what I meant. I meant that myths are reliable, not the stories of Tolkien and Le Guin. Anyone can come up with anything in their work, but I just find it funny why everyone thinks that all creatures should look and have customs like those in these writers' works?

By the way, Magnus,
Everything about the Titans in Greek mythology is well written. Good job telling us. You're educating the masses, so to speak. Thank you very much for that. But there doesn't seem to be anything about the Giants (predecessors of the Titans) in Greek mythology, as far as I remember. Or am I just not familiar enough with Greek mythology? There is a clear inconsistency in Heroes 3: Giants are presented as predecessors of Titans in the Academy castle. This means that Giants must be somehow (even indirectly) connected to Titans! I don't see such a mythological connection yet. Does anyone else see it? And if they are connected, can you tell me how? If anyone knows, please answer. I will also try to find the answer myself.

2 Gramm, they are directly related because: Giants in Greek mythology are the sons of Gaia, who appeared from the blood of the castrated Uranus, which was absorbed into the earth-mother. According to another version, Gaia gave birth to them from Uranus after the Titans were cast down into Tartarus. The pre-Greek origin of the Giants is evident. Apollodorus told the detailed story of the birth and death of the Giants. Giants inspired fear with their appearance – with thick beards and hair, and the lower part of their bodies was serpentine. They were born on the Phlegrean Fields ("burning fields") on the Pallene Peninsula (in Chalkidiki, Northern Greece); there, the battle of the Olympian gods with the Giants took place. Unlike the Titans, the Giants are mortal. By the will of fate, their death depended on the participation of heroes (mortals) in the battle, who would come to the aid of the gods. Gaia searched for a magical herb that would save the Giants' lives. But Zeus outstripped Gaia and, sending darkness to the earth, cut this herb himself. On the advice of Athena, Zeus summoned the hero Heracles to participate in the battle. In the Gigantomachy, the Olympians destroyed the Giants. Apollodorus mentions the names of 13 Giants, although there were up to 150 of them in total. Heracles killed Alkioneus, who drew strength from the earth, Zeus – Porphyrion, Apollo – Ephialtes, Dionysus – Eurytus, Hecate – Clitius, Hephaestus – Memantus, and Athena crushed Enceladus with the island of Sicily, skinned the still-living Pallantus, and used his skin as armor. Poseidon defeated Hippolytus, Artemis – Gratyon, the Moirai – Agrius and Thoas. The rest were struck down by Zeus with thunderbolts. Heracles finished off the Giants with his arrows. At the heart of the Gigantomachy (as well as the Titanomachy) lies the idea of ordering the world, embodied in the victory of the Olympian generation of gods over chthonic forces, and the strengthening of the supreme power of Zeus. The Roman poet Claudius wrote a small poem dedicated to the theme of the Gigantomachy. The battle of the Olympians with the Giants is depicted on the frieze of the altar of Zeus in the city of Pergamum. Homer in the Odyssey mentions the wild tribe of Giants – a fairy-tale people on a par with the Phaeacians and Cyclopes, protected by the gods

Magnus, wasn't the Titan who drew strength from the earth called Antaeus? Or are they two different characters? (It's been a while since I read it)))