Discussion of the Mirror Jebus rules. — Tournament History

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Multiple choice Public votes Closed 2018-02-13

This poll is closed.

Ban prisons in the center

20% 12 votes

Leave the prisons in the center

31.7% 19 votes

Ban Miryam

18.3% 11 votes

Leave Mirian

23.3% 14 votes

Ban Beatrice

13.3% 8 votes

Leave Beatrice

25% 15 votes

Ban Alamar

13.3% 8 votes

Leave Alamar

26.7% 16 votes

View voting results

58.3% 35 votes

Dust_HL

8 years ago

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Wicc

You will also be denied here.

It would be better to raise the issues on which we had common ground.

I didn't find a "Ban Wicc" option in the poll :D
I think it could have worked))

Albert@s

8 years ago

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Removing Dungeons from the Treasure is not a good idea. However, making Dungeons with heroes who don't have a Book would be a good idea. It would look more balanced – you couldn't say that someone just got lucky and a mage with a lot of mana appeared and destroyed the Center in one turn. Also, if I understand correctly, in the Center, you can only generate Dungeons with generic, simple Warriors, and with a pre-defined build – let's say all 20+ levels, all 8 skills at expert level (possibly 6-7, with empty slots, although 8 is guaranteed to be more balanced), and there are no Scouts, Pathfinders, Logicians, or Scholars (this eliminates the possibility of breaking and re-training). P.S. Although, with the trading system for colors/castles, it seems strange to complain about the fate of the villain – learn to play, know your opponent, be honest with yourself and your opponent, and remember that the Game begins before the Game – how prepared you are, how you negotiated, how you anticipated all possible nuances – that will determine the result.

=Lizard=

8 years ago

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That's a good idea, but then it would be necessary to ensure that heroes without a spellbook cannot cast travel spells. Just like in the old version...

MinasMorgul

8 years ago

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I would like to see specialists in scouting have a fixed bonus to scouting range, for example, +3 tiles, and that's it, so that it doesn't increase as a percentage, but remains fixed, like many other heroes. I would also like to see dungeons up to level 10 in the treasure. Regarding the fact that this might reduce their number in the treasure, it's possible to fix this in the template editor, and yes, they will more often be generated with other objects that have good value, but to get it (a not particularly powerful hero), especially intentionally, you will have to put in some effort, and it's not a given that it will pay off, because a level 10 hero's chance of having a log and passfight, plus enough mana for a jump and teleportation home, is unlikely, unlike a level 30 hero where this is almost always the case. Also, this will affect players' desire to level up supports intentionally, rather than relying on luck (as usually happens).

In reply to MinasMorgul

Wicc

8 years ago

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MinasMorgul

I would like to see scouts have a fixed bonus to their scouting range, for example, +3 squares, and that's it, so that it doesn't increase as a percentage, but remains fixed, like with many other heroes.

In version 1.3, it was exactly like that. Then, under the unanimous cries of "It's overpowered! It's overpowered!", the current version was made.

In reply to Wicc

Dirty_Player

8 years ago

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Wicc

In version 1.3, it was exactly like that. Then, under the unanimous cries of "Imba! Imba!", the current version was made.

It's much more "imba" to receive the full bonus from a special ability at the first level than at higher levels. It seems logical.
In general, for all specialists in secondary skills, the bonus is a percentage (except for the specialist in Fire Magic).
The problem with scouting is that the specialization cannot give a half-cell bonus (half of Fedor :D), so it's interesting to know at what level, with expert scouting, does it give a +1 radius of vision? I'll venture to suggest that if it gives +5% per level, the increase is at 1 (4 cells), 7 (5), 14 (6), 21 (7), 27 (8). If I'm right, then that's quite a lot, especially if you get it out of prison :D. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Grando

8 years ago

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And how much is "not enough"? By the way, they also failed to balance Scouting in Warlords. They kept "balancing" it until it became overpowered.
But I still don't understand – is Scouting now the ultimate overpowered ability in the game?
For example, if the ninth hero offered in the tavern on day 112 in Jeb is either Grish or Beatrice, and you only have enough money for one, which one will players buy first?

In reply to Grando

Dirty_Player

8 years ago

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Al Feyn

Is scouting already the biggest overpowered element in the game?

The more resources in the game, the more valuable scouting becomes. A revealed resource node can simply win the game. But the overpowered element isn't in the scouting specialists themselves, but in the fact that you can get free "vision" in the treasure and see the entire center, while the opponent doesn't have that possibility.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Wicc

8 years ago

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Dirty_Player

In general, all specialists in secondary skills receive a percentage-based bonus (except for the specialist in Fire Magic).

Training has a fixed percentage – doubling (there will be much debate about this :D).

I'll venture to suggest that it gives +5% per level.

5% per level, rounded up.

In reply to Wicc

Dirty_Player

8 years ago

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Wicc

Training has a fixed percentage – doubling.

Well, I meant it in the classic SOD, but I'm not saying it can't be changed.

Wicc

5% per level, rounded up.

So, I calculated it correctly.

Iamsamstan

8 years ago

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An outside opinion: guys, you're forgetting that HotA is not VT, which was played only by the old-timers from ХВ; here there are plenty of random people who play Jebus Cross on 4 or even 2 minutes, and with OX up to 2 months. I think this huge majority absolutely doesn't care what prisons will be there or who is in them, while you are making the game convenient and acceptable for a dozen old-timers arguing over who is cooler) In any case, let the HotA team decide for themselves how to do things and what to change)

In reply to Iamsamstan

MinasMorgul

8 years ago

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Iamsamstan

An outside perspective, guys — you're forgetting that HotA isn't WoW (World of Warcraft), which only dads from HeroesWorld played. There are plenty of random people here who play Jebus Cross on 4, or even 2 minutes, and from OH up to 2 months. I think this vast majority could not care less about what prisons there will be, who's in them, while you're making the game convenient and acceptable for a dozen dads arguing who's cooler). After all, let the HotA team decide for themselves how and what to do and change).

For the majority, a simple Jebus Cross would suffice then, while the mirrored version is a challenge for high-skill players.
Regarding heroes with Scouting specialties, here's another option: make it so that each level of Scouting gives +1 tile from the proficiency, for a total of 3 tiles maximum. This way we get a hero worth leveling up, not as imbalanced as it currently is.
Although, after thinking a bit about the balance of HL+U (which is barely played, with all sorts of Daimonds), such a hero decides too much — even with +3 and in Jebus Cross without any heroes from prisons with levels above ten, we get a perfectly decent scout.

=Lizard=

8 years ago

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Is there a way to disable the generation of Dungeons with specific heroes? I mean, let the Dungeons exist, but never have Scouts, Armor/Offense specialists, or Alamar inside them...

Sav

8 years ago

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No, individual heroes can only be banned completely within a template. Dungeons can be banned/limited in maximum quantity/have their value and frequency changed only based on the hero's level.

HellLighT

8 years ago

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I’m not planning to participate in the tournament; it’s bound to become tedious. I agree with Bishop on the main points. I’m tired of adding extra rules to the game; there will always be an element of randomness, whether it’s morale or skills that work well with certain heroes and heroes from Dungeon. In my opinion, banning Dungeon heroes will make the game more boring and slower. The number of them in the treasure should be reduced, possibly by removing heroes at level 30 (debatable). Scouts are overpowered with their current special ability; it clearly needs to be fixed to +1/+2/+3, for example, upon reaching levels 5/10/15 (or 3/6/9), if this is possible at the programming level. If not, then simply based on the skill level. Alamar has simply become a top support hero; there will always be a hero that is approximately the best in something. There are no super overpowered heroes; if you want, in 70% of cases, you can build a GM, level up a scholar, and do everything you need. I remember that thanks to a Russian player, I somehow took water and retrained prayer, clone, forgetfulness, and bless from the heroes.