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Posts from UNIT - Creature Balance + Visual Changes
Take the peasant image from the mod with volunteers.
Added after 48 seconds
That is, spearmen, I mean the same thing as Interested.
Nargott
8 years ago
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Vestals, why are they needed, especially in the first tier? They've already created excellent spearmen instead of those bulky units; take your pick. As for the zombies, they should look disgusting; they are walking corpses, not cute undead. Mummies in the second tier – that's strange.
Ment
8 years ago
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I never understood what the problem is with peasants and zombies; they aren't magic stools... The units look logical, the visuals match the stats, what else is needed? Why do they need beauty contests...?
Pikemen or vestals instead of peasants – that's already a problem with logic. We need to remove the "taxpayer" ability, increase the stats, and reduce the growth rate (well-equipped and minimally trained pikemen cannot be significantly weaker than swordsmen; they should be at least comparable to archers). Something needs to be done with Elaine's skill; ideally, give pikemen an ability that corresponds to their weapon (like in Heroes 6/7), but "protection of allies" already exists for armored units, and what else is there...? The most logical thing would be to increase protection from enemy flanking and/or a preemptive strike (if it can be done), but this would radically change the entire balance of the city.
In general, I don't know.
Nargott
8 years ago
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Increasing their stats is possible, but not to the level of archers. These could be non-professional spearmen, but simply better-looking and equipped militia (light infantry). A taxpayer is, of course, not needed. If protection against fleeing is needed, then it's the "wall of shields" ability. Everything else is unrealistic.
The problem with peasants is that they are not soldiers, but just random meat that somehow ended up in the army, and of very low quality. In the second Heroes game, at least there were 5 slots out of 6, and peasants could be safely removed from the army, but here you can't just get rid of them. Personally, for me, the problem with peasants is not in the visuals; I've never liked them in any of the games, but in the fact that they are not warriors. They should lower the morale of the allied army just by their presence.
somewhere there are zombies made based on mummies, but they are still zombies – thin, half-decayed, and without bandages.
Added 3 minutes later
Regarding units – it’s better not to make Vestals, otherwise retraining will change the unit’s gender. But it’s better to replace the “puzans” – peasants shouldn’t be fat.
[/U]It would be better to replace the chubby peasants – farmers shouldn't be fat.
I remember a peasant from the third game, with a pitchfork, very thin and, it seems, a woman.
Ment
8 years ago
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But it would be better to replace the chubby peasants – farmers shouldn't be fat.
I don't know why not? It all depends on the amount of food, obviously, because their lifestyle doesn't seem to hinder weight gain (the work is seasonal). I've always liked the chubby ones; it looked somewhat original and unpretentious. In contrast, the peasants from King's Bounty don't appeal to me; they're too fairytale-like and polished.
I remember the peasant from the third game, with a pitchfork, thin, and it seems like a woman.
And in my opinion, it looked terrible. They also had such rags... That's what real peasants from a grim medieval setting looked like.
AstralLein
8 years ago
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I agree with SRD.
Vestals and item preparation are incompatible.
Уриэль Септим Х
8 years ago
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in that case, make the Vestals level 4, or somehow arrange it so they don't participate in this chain.
Added 4 minutes later Ment
And in my opinion, it looked terrible. They also had such rags... These were truly peasants from a grim medieval setting.
The peasants from Disciples 2 are nervously smoking in the corner.
AstralLein
8 years ago
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Well, these girls don't really fit the theme. The Guardians are okay, but Vestals don't really belong.
Added 46 minutes later
They fit well into the more devout Haven faction, while the fifth-tier units are more generic in that regard.
I never understood what the problem was with both peasants and zombies; they aren't magic stools...
Peasants are still somewhat acceptable, but zombies are disgusting in themselves; I would like something that wouldn't make your eyes bleed instead of them. I like the mummy model; I think they could fit in as a second-tier unit for Necropolis. And what don't you like about gargoyles? I think they are quite amusing creatures :) SRD
There are zombies based on mummies somewhere, but they are still zombies – thin, half-decayed, and without bandages.
Removing or changing some elements of the creatures is not a problem. The question is whether users will appreciate such an innovation. SRD
As for the people, it's better not to make vestals; otherwise, retraining will change the unit's gender.
Vestals will undergo retraining in Thailand:smile52: SRD
But it's better to replace the chubby ones – peasants shouldn't be fat.
It would be good to have something to replace them with... Vestals really can't be placed on the 1st tier. There were suggestions to replace them with spearmen, but I agree with comrade Ment; spearmen and armored men are approximately equal in strength, and the difference between their tiers is not very logical. Uriel Septim X
In that case, make vestals a 4th-tier unit, or somehow make it so that they don't participate in this chain.
If vestals are placed on the 4th tier, then archers and armored men would have to be moved to lower tiers, and this is already a very controversial change that greatly affects the balance of the faction.
It would be nice to have something to replace them with... Vestaloks really can't be placed in the 1st tier. There were suggestions to replace them with pikemen, but I agree with comrade Ment here; pikemen and halberdiers are roughly equal in strength, and the difference between their tiers doesn't make much sense.
If Vestaloks were placed in the 4th tier, it would be necessary to move archers and halberdiers to lower tiers, and this would be a very controversial change that would greatly affect the faction's balance.
Firstly, regardless of which tier Vestaloks are placed in, they will participate in the retraining chain – currently, there are 5 human units in this chain; 7-5=2, meaning only two units can be excluded from the chain. These units are angels and griffons, and it would be absurd to give up on them in favor of Vestaloks. Secondly, peasants should be hungry, impoverished, and generally belong in the fields (what about the army and the bourgeoisie? What will we feed them with?). Infantry can be represented by two types of units: basic, numerous units and elite, more trained units. For example, in Heroes 7, humans have legionaries and justiciars (there are also landsknechts, but they belong not in the champions, but in the elite, and even then, perhaps only as a replacement for justiciars). In Heroes 4, there is infantry on levels 1, 2, and 3 (I don't remember what the first one is called, the second is halberdiers, and the third is crusaders). I think we can give them different roles – some to protect allies (an ability to protect allies from arrows and the like), others as an attacking unit (abilities similar to stun, cleave, charge, and the like).
Added 8 minutes later In fact, I'm planning to do this myself – the 1st and 3rd tiers will be infantry, NOT peasants. The 1st tier will be defensive (either the entire unit or one of the upgrades), and the 3rd tier will be attacking (either the entire unit or one of the upgrades). We can also try giving the 1st tier the visual of a halberdier, and the 3rd tier the visual of a swordsman based on a vampire (replace the head with a helmet, recolor the textures, and it will look good) – I've also thought about this; there are screenshots in the "Harmony" topic – I've already tried something similar
Nargott
8 years ago
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"Frozensoull"
It would be nice to have something to replace them with... Vestals really shouldn't be in Tier 1. There were suggestions to replace them with pikemen, but I agree with comrade Ment; pikemen and armored infantry are roughly equal in strength, and the difference between their tiers doesn't make much sense.
In the Wargame Edition thread, in the latest post, I made a detailed overview of historical units (based on MTW2). So, the advantage of swordsmen (specifically those depicted in Heroes 5) is that they are guaranteed to have excellent equipment (elite heavy infantry). Pikemen, on the other hand, can vary freely, from elite (Tier 3) to poorly trained militia (Tier 1). Although the number and strength of individual creatures will still need to be adjusted, because a pikeman, in any case, is many times stronger than a peasant with a pitchfork.
Vestals will undergo retraining in Thailand.
Thai Vestals (with that name) - that's okay :) Then all questions about why they are on the battlefield are automatically resolved. :) "SRD"
In Heroes 4, there is infantry on levels 1, 2, and 3 (I don't remember what the first ones are called, the second are halberdiers, and the third are crusaders).
Squires. And the second are pikemen.
You could also try giving the visual of armored infantry to Tier 1, and the visual of a vampire-based swordsman to Tier 3 (replace the head with a helmet, recolor the textures, and it will be fine) - I've thought about this too - there are screenshots somewhere in the "Harmony" thread - I've already tried something similar.
Well, that's too much, and it already feels wrong that one knight takes down so many armored infantry (a fairytale hero), and now to make them even weaker by a factor of 4 in Tier 1.
