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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.

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In reply to =Lizard=
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Offline KobRa_RR
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#1589
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=Lizard=
Artem, sorry, but reading this from you is hilarious. It seems like you even came up with the concept of "papal procrastination."

That's all in the past now.


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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1590
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Dark
That's already a nuance. Let's put it this way: if you want to talk about injustice, then why are you red and I'm blue, and why was red rush cancelled on HL?! My point was that this is not a critical violation to either annul the game or, own one need not mention, give tech losses.
This is precisely not a nuance, but an important point. Studying reviews, searching for treasure zones in look for Dragon Utopia can take a very long time, and time is a very valuable resource, especially if the timer is at zero.

In Heroes there are plenty of factors that "don't decide" things:
- red-rush on an empty town at 211+
- hit-and-run by a noob against a noob
- taking a Dragon Utopia without breaking the guard, when the Dragon Utopia is taken via auto-battle.
- passing by shifted guards to a neighboring respawn without taking anything.
It would seem that all of the above and much more do not have a significant impact on the course of the game, yet punishment follows, even if it's disproportionate to the severity of the violation.
Dark
To rephrase: now the AC has decided to annul a game in which someone was crushed, because the person who crushed them did what?! Used 1-2 mana after a long save, probably?!
I can give you many different situations where unfair losses were assigned.

I'll add that I, as a player, would never in my life nitpick over such an episode, but as a judge, I am obliged to record violations.
Wicc
In my opinion, views should be allowed after postponing, provided that the opponent can also study them without spending their timer.
I agree here. Either both watch, or no one.
Wicc
And in any case, punishment for a controversial point not specified in the rules is wrong. It turns out they introduced a rule and punished retroactively. As they say, the law has no retroactive effect.
Punishment would be to give a tech loss, as for a rule violation. But here they simply annulled the game. I don't know how it is for others, but for me it's obvious that if the turn has been passed, nothing can be changed or done anymore. No viewing, no changing artifacts, no trading resources, etc. Nothing. It's strange that for some it's not like that.
dom2
The rule (prohibition) should be simple and clear - NO actions can be performed during bonus time. That is - spending mana (which covers land/air views), building, rearranging units in the army, splitting single units, etc.

Otherwise, Occam's razor is violated. Example - views were allowed, then someone split 1 unit - so what, it was allowed, then someone split 2, 3..., then someone built something. A separate rule for every case? Where to draw the line between a violation and "almost not a violation" and most importantly, why?
I completely share this opinion. :smile20:

Added after 23 seconds
=Lizard=
Artem, sorry, but reading this from you is a mega-lol ))) I think even the concept of "pope's postponing" was created by you )))
This is what AC does to people :smile04:
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Offline o1dboy79
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#1591
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Hello everyone!
Yesterday, an unpleasant incident occurred in a ranked game with the Outcast faction.
After the final battle, which I won with a significant advantage in units and stats, my opponent surrendered, writing: "Wait, I still have an easy win here."

He then explained that I was penalized because I passed by the Gate of the Month in the central zone, one of the outposts, without killing it (Necropolis units).

My explanation that the Gate of the Month had already been killed by me in previous turns did not satisfy my opponent, and he went to complain to the referees from the AC (Administration Committee).

I request that you review my screenshot (I have indicated the sequence of my actions) at https://ibb.co/d4i76k
and the save file of the entire game if needed at http://dropmefiles.com/J6Teg.

Since the Gate of the Month has been cleared, I am allowed to pass by the outposts.
I interpret my actions according to this rule:

Additional rules for transitions between zones:
- In order to exit your zone into the central treasury (zone 5), and also to pass from the central treasury into other zones, it is necessary to clear the corresponding Gate of the Month. Using buggy passages between the central treasury and a specific zone is prohibited until the Gate of the Month between these zones has been cleared.

If my actions violate the rules or are considered unfair play, I request that I be declared the loser
ICQ 694248141

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Offline caliban
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Posts: 602
#1592
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If there was another Guard Tower next to the horses that you destroyed, then you can pass through. Otherwise, if there were only horses, you need to destroy them in order to use this buggy passage.
https://twitch.tv/calibanhw
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In reply to o1dboy79
Offline Iamsamstan
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Posts: 1,771
#1593
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o1dboy79
Hello everyone!
Yesterday, during a ranked game with Outcast, an unpleasant situation occurred.
After the final battle in my favor, with a significant advantage in units and stats, my opponent surrendered, writing: "Wait, I still have an easy win here."

He then explained that I was penalized because I passed by the GO in the central treasure zone – one of the outposts – without killing it (the Necromancer's horses).

My explanation that the GO had already been killed by me on previous turns did not satisfy him, and he went to complain to the judges from AK.

I ask you to pass judgment based on my screenshot (I indicated the scheme of my actions):
https://ibb.co/d4i76k
and the save file of the entire game if needed:
http://dropmefiles.com/J6Teg

The GO is cleared – which means I can move past the horses.
I interpret my actions according to this rule:

Additional rules for transitions between zones:
- In order to exit your zone into the central treasure zone (zone 5), as well as to go from the central treasure zone to other zones, it is necessary to clear the corresponding GO. Using buggy passages between the central treasure zone and a specific zone is prohibited until the GO between these zones has been cleared.

If my actions violate the rules or are considered unfair play, please declare me defeated.
Take a look at this point in the rules /post/669843/
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Offline o1dboy79
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#1594
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topic is exhausted
+kudos for knowing the rules and being able to turn the tide of a match even when the final is lost

I agree with the technical defeat and my own noobishness.
ICQ 694248141

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Offline Wicc
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#1595
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However, if a player were to cast Fly and then run the same route (i.e., not actually using Fly), there would be no violation. This rule was inherited by Hote from SoD, although it should have been removed long ago. That is, when completing one of several possible routes, it should be allowed to use all of them. It's quite difficult to abuse this, but it's very easy to end up in a situation similar to the one described.
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Offline FireToSky
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#1596
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What stupid rules, definitely requiring adjustments. I would do the same as Oldboy and stand up for my right. And whining about that minor issue after losing in the first battle once again reveals the true nature of his opponent.
szopa666: ban JC win game Keepo
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1597
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Wicc
This rule point was inherited by HotA from SoD, although it should have been removed long ago. That is, when breaching one of multiple passages, it should be possible to use all the others as well. It is rather difficult to abuse this, but ending up in a situation similar to the one described is very much possible.
Abusing this is possible on M-L templates where there are multiple exits from one zone. For Jebus Cross, of course, this is overkill.
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Offline KobRa_RR
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#1598
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Where ГО sultans and devils are in Pete's pictures, I remember that game by Gomunguls. I, both 5 years ago and now, consider it complete nonsense that if you break through ГО into the center on Jebus Cross, you can move wherever you want. And the arguments that it's supposedly a different passage, five tiles below, don't hold up to any criticism :D :D :D In general, I am initiating this issue in the AK


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Offline =Lizard=
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#1599
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There are exceptions. If you have breached your own ГО and know that your opponent has breached theirs, walking back and forth to each other without control through a bugged passage would be extremely strange. All these points need to be clearly spelled out. The HeroesWorld rules have long needed refinement.
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
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Offline Grando
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#1600
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Gentlemen, I tend to dwell on all sorts of trivial nonsense and pick a fight where it might be simpler to just walk away. However, the positive side of this is that from any conflict situation I try to formulate the underlying rule. And if it's poorly formulated, I keep polishing it until it's good. Perhaps I could try to take care of this, if the rest of you are already tired of it? Not that I'm brimming with enthusiasm, but if nothing is moving at all, that's also frustrating. In this life, I returned to HeroesWorld at the end of last year and have been hearing ever since that big changes to the Rules are just around the corner. Maybe the AK could discuss this issue internally, and Derty, for example, or someone else could send me a set of half-baked ideas as they currently stand, so I can finish polishing them. Since it hasn't been able to come to fruition for a year already, it can't get any worse.
Well, as for new situations, we'll keep track of them as they arise.

* all taking into account real life, work, and such. Not instantaneously. )
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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Offline Izgoy
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#1601
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Well, I immediately wanted to add my two cents since things have escalated! First, knowing this rule and having played about 40 fan and season games with this opponent, I messaged him about it and jokingly mentioned an easy win, as I had spent a lot of time playing with him. Therefore, immediately after the game, I suggested we declare a draw and just forget about it, not making a big deal out of it. But the opponent filed a report 2 minutes after the final game. And when I brought up the rule, it turned into: "you're cheating," prove it, show me the rule, etc. I repeat, after so many games played and for the sake of future games, I didn't want to make a big deal out of it, I just suggested declaring a draw. P.S.1. When the Necromancer units were running past, I was standing in a chain formation near these units and saw everything, I was tracking their moves, and the moment he ran past, I immediately let him know in the chat, asking if he had checked the guard near the units or not. The opponent remained silent. P.S.2: At the time of the rule violation, the opponent wasn't stronger, and that unfortunate move disrupted my chain formation in the treasure room. Although I admit that in the end, the opponent had a more powerful army with full control. And perhaps that single unit that killed 1-2 of my heroes in the chain formation in the treasure room didn't really affect the outcome of the game. Since this has happened, I agree that we need to clarify this rule. Peace to all.
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Offline o1dboy79
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#1602
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Outcast
Well, since things have escalated, I wanted to add my two cents! First, knowing this rule and having played about 40 fan and season games with this opponent, I messaged him about it and jokingly mentioned that I could easily win from that point on, as we had spent a lot of time playing together. Therefore, immediately after the game, I suggested we declare a draw and just forget about it, not making a big deal out of it. But the opponent filed a report just 2 minutes after the final turn. And when I brought up the rule, he started saying things like, "you're cheating," "prove it," and "show me the rule." I repeat, after so many games played, and for the sake of future games, I didn't want to make a big deal out of it, I just suggested we declare a draw.
P.S.1. When the Necromancer units were running past, I was standing with my units near those units, I saw everything, I was tracking their moves, and the moment he ran past, I immediately let him know in the chat, asking if he had checked the guard near the units or not. The opponent remained silent.
P.S.2: At the time of the rule violation, the opponent wasn't stronger, and that unfortunate move disrupted my chain in the treasure room. Although I admit that in the end, the opponent's army was more powerful and he had full control. And perhaps that single unit that killed 1-2 of my heroes in the chain in the treasure room didn't really affect the outcome of the game.
Since this happened, I agree that we need to clarify this rule. Peace to all.

Peace!
After I passed the turn, I didn't pay attention to the in-game chat.
You could have left the game immediately and explained everything, but you continued the game.
I love and understand humor, but don't joke like that again:smile29:
ICQ 694248141

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In reply to =Lizard=
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1603
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=Lizard=
If you have broken through your control point and know that your opponent has also broken through theirs, it would be very strange to move towards each other without using the bugged passage for movement. All these moments need to be clearly defined.
Actually, this is already described, and you can move towards each other: 🙄
On the border of the red starting zone and one of the neutral zones, there is a village that has consumed part of the mountains. As a result, a wide unguarded passage was formed, which cannot be used until the control points from the red zone to the center and between the center and the stones are broken through. It is not possible to steal the campfire and resource piles from the stones.
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